Would the Seahawks have won the division if they hadn't traded RW? ( Also what place in the division)

[JMR]

So basically it won't matter if Pete was let go and RW stayed, the Seahawks weren't winning the division. Your point apparently was you don't like Pete as HC. Your anti Pete bias was apparent the moment you gave the obligatory age reference that all Pete critics feel they have to state. I feel Pete is a very QB friendly coach but that RW was resistant to changing his game, changes were made ( and RW consulted with the change of OC) to develop RW game away from the back yard football style to a more professional style of using the entire field and going through progressions with various OC, but no matter what was done it always morphed back to RW football style.

Your very first sentence there is twisting my words. If someone asks me where I think the Hawks would finish in the division this year if RW was still here, I first need to know who the HC is. Because it wouldn't be Pete Carroll. Ya know...kinda like how Tom Brady "retired" and then all of a sudden un-retired as soon as Bruce Arians hit the bricks. It wasn't that RW didn't want to be in Seattle....he just didn't want to be in Seattle playing for Pete anymore. That combo had run its course, and it seems like many of us in here have been saying that in some form or fashion the past couple years. If RW were here with a more with-the-times HC, we would have a way better shot at the division than what we have now and what we would have if we just ran it back like we had been doing the past 4-5 years with the same old stuff that has produced zero playoff wins past the WC round since SB49.

Pete's tenure here is outstanding. All time best franchise HC. Probably a HOFer. But that doesn't mean he's a good fit now. I recall the comment from Greg Olsen on how surprised he was when he got here because the coaches ran the offense as if they had a JV roster (easy to find on a google search), and that's my beef with Pete. Since the fall of the defense from at or near the top of the rankings, Pete just kept at it like they were still legendary and like we didn't have an elite QB and a pair of incredible WRs. So it's funny to me that you criticize RW for not changing his game. I am not a huge fan of absolutes so I won't say Pete didn't adjust at all, but he didn't do it enough to take advantage of what we had at QB/WR as well as what we no longer had on D since about 2018.

 

[JMR]

I turned anti-Pete 2 years ago when they let Jadaveon Clowney go and traded 2 1sts for Jamal Adams. More anti-Pete/John though. @JMR and I argued a lot about that offseason because I thought that our defensive line was woefully undermanned. He was more optimistic.

Though I don't recall being fully anti-Pete until the WC loss at home to the Rams after the 2020 season, I think PC actually jumped the shark when we traded Unger for Jimmy Graham. That was the first big move that just didn't match with what Pete had been stating was the DNA or the fabric of what he wanted this team to be. If your style is ball control, defense, ground game, then why on earth do you send off a pro bowl center in return for a non-blocking TE? Graham was productive here despite what casual fan critics would say, but that move was like buying a Corvette and using it to pull a boat.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Your very first sentence there is twisting my words. If someone asks me where I think the Hawks would finish in the division this year if RW was still here, I first need to know who the HC is. Because it wouldn't be Pete Carroll. Ya know...kinda like how Tom Brady "retired" and then all of a sudden un-retired as soon as Bruce Arians hit the bricks. It wasn't that RW didn't want to be in Seattle....he just didn't want to be in Seattle playing for Pete anymore. That combo had run its course, and it seems like many of us in here have been saying that in some form or fashion the past couple years. If RW were here with a more with-the-times HC, we would have a way better shot at the division than what we have now and what we would have if we just ran it back like we had been doing the past 4-5 years with the same old stuff that has produced zero playoff wins past the WC round since SB49.

Pete's tenure here is outstanding. All time best franchise HC. Probably a HOFer. But that doesn't mean he's a good fit now. I recall the comment from Greg Olsen on how surprised he was when he got here because the coaches ran the offense as if they had a JV roster (easy to find on a google search), and that's my beef with Pete. Since the fall of the defense from at or near the top of the rankings, Pete just kept at it like they were still legendary and like we didn't have an elite QB and a pair of incredible WRs. So it's funny to me that you criticize RW for not changing his game. I am not a huge fan of absolutes so I won't say Pete didn't adjust at all, but he didn't do it enough to take advantage of what we had at QB/WR as well as what we no longer had on D since about 2018.

What ever RW reason for wanting to be traded, no player is bigger then the team IMO so it was time to move on. I'm not really a fan of Brady maneuvers in the NFL, his attempts to set up the Dolphins to suit himself, his unhappiness with Arians, it smacks of what happened to the NBA where the inmates are running things.

It is going to be a rough season with what the Seahawks have at QB for now. However we all know the QB corp will be different next season and that this season was about improving in some other areas like OL, pass rush and RB, better depth in the secondary. So going to be plenty of losses and I sure hope fans can't see the forest because of the trees and keep beating a dead horse in regard to RW and Pete. It was time for a change and change we got. As for Pete, well he's going to retire soon enough. I just hope he can give the Seahawks another run before he goes. I lot of that depends on finding a decent QB in the draft which as we know is no sure thing.

 

[JMR]

What ever RW reason for wanting to be traded, no player is bigger then the team IMO so it was time to move on. I'm not really a fan of Brady maneuvers in the NFL, his attempts to set up the Dolphins to suit himself, his unhappiness with Arians, it smacks of what happened to the NBA where the inmates are running things.

It is going to be a rough season with what the Seahawks have at QB for now. However we all know the QB corp will be different next season and that this season was about improving in some other areas like OL, pass rush and RB, better depth in the secondary. So going to be plenty of losses and I sure hope fans can't see the forest because of the trees and keep beating a dead horse in regard to RW and Pete. It was time for a change and change we got. As for Pete, well he's going to retire soon enough. I just hope he can give the Seahawks another run before he goes. I lot of that depends on finding a decent QB in the draft which as we know is no sure thing.

I agree that no player is bigger than the team, but that doesn't mean we made the right choice in keeping Pete Carroll over one of the best QBs on the planet. In fact, I think it was absolutely asinine. I guess we'll see how it works out. Go Hawks.

 

[DJ]

1st.

Stafford's elbow injury could cause LA big problems.

SF going with Lance and he has played like 15 games since HS. The NFL isn't kind to untested QB's.

Arizona without Hop for 6 games and that could cause them to go 8-9 or so. Losing Hopkins hurts a lot. Brutal schedule to start the season.

 

[seahawksfan234]

We are speculating on the 2022 season without RW and have posters declaring the Seahawks are throwing away the season ( without RW). That got me thinking what kind of season do folks think they threw away?

This is a bit tricky because if the Seahawks didn't trade Russ, they'd probably also still have Bobby Wagner. But they also wouldn't likely have Mofe, Walker, Lucas, Cross, Bryant and Whoolen who I all think will be significant contributors this year.

Russ would be enough to carry this team to 8 or 9 wins, and a third place finish. If we played in a different division, maybe he'd be enough to get us to the playoffs with a first round exit.

Moving Russ was necessary to get us the draft capital we needed to build a competitive roster. If we hung on to Russ, we'd be good enough to win 8 or so games every year until he walked via free agency.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

This is a bit tricky because if the Seahawks didn't trade Russ, they'd probably also still have Bobby Wagner. But they also wouldn't likely have Mofe, Walker, Lucas, Cross, Bryant and Whoolen who I all think will be significant contributors this year.

Russ would be enough to carry this team to 8 or 9 wins, and a third place finish. If we played in a different division, maybe he'd be enough to get us to the playoffs with a first round exit.

Moving Russ was necessary to get us the draft capital we needed to build a competitive roster. If we hung on to Russ, we'd be good enough to win 8 or so games every year until he walked via free agency.

The franchise would be spinning its wheels so moving Russ and adding draft capital was the right decision. Also to note if Seattle can get in that top 2 of the draft, the FO will now have a cost controlled young QB for the next 5yrs which keeps our cap low.

 

[Jikkle]

The Seahawks 12-4 2 years ago.

Was the 2020 roster better than the current roster?

I get that people want to move on from Russ especially now that he is not on the team. But it sure seems to me that people want to blame Russ for the team having a bad roster.

Russ wasn't the one who traded 2nd round pick for one year of Sheldon Richardson. He wasn't the one who traded a 2nd round pick for one year of Jadaveon Clowney. He wasn't the one who trade 2 1st round picks for a strong safety. And he certainly wasn't the one who drafted Malik McDowell and LJ Collier.

I think the rest of the division is much tougher than it was in 2020 though.

Stafford is clearly an upgrade over Goff and the 9ers season was completely derailed by major injuries that year and I don't love the Cardinals this season so that might be the only team that's roughly the same but even that 2020 team went 8 - 8.

I think the Seahawks would've been 3rd in the division overall if RW had stayed. I would've went:

Rams
9ers
Seahawks
Cardinals

I don't really see much dropoff for the Rams from last season's team. The 9ers are an unknown with Lance but they arguably have the best front 7 in football and I say it's a top 5 defense overall along with one of the better rushing attacks in the league so their success isn't largely on Lance anyways. Cardinals are a tough team to tell what direction they'll go but they had a noisy offseason and they are missing Hopkins for 6 games which is a big blow for them along with the loss of Chandler Jones.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think the rest of the division is much tougher than it was in 2020 though.

Stafford is clearly an upgrade over Goff and the 9ers season was completely derailed by major injuries that year and I don't love the Cardinals this season so that might be the only team that's roughly the same but even that 2020 team went 8 - 8.

I think the Seahawks would've been 3rd in the division overall if RW had stayed. I would've went:

Rams
9ers
Seahawks
Cardinals

I don't really see much dropoff for the Rams from last season's team. The 9ers are an unknown with Lance but they arguably have the best front 7 in football and I say it's a top 5 defense overall along with one of the better rushing attacks in the league so their success isn't largely on Lance anyways. Cardinals are a tough team to tell what direction they'll go but they had a noisy offseason and they are missing Hopkins for 6 games which is a big blow for them along with the loss of Chandler Jones.

Most Super Bowl winning teams have a dropoff the next year. Especially older teams that lost some key players like Whitworth.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think the rest of the division is much tougher than it was in 2020 though.

Stafford is clearly an upgrade over Goff and the 9ers season was completely derailed by major injuries that year and I don't love the Cardinals this season so that might be the only team that's roughly the same but even that 2020 team went 8 - 8.

I think the Seahawks would've been 3rd in the division overall if RW had stayed. I would've went:

Rams
9ers
Seahawks
Cardinals

I don't really see much dropoff for the Rams from last season's team. The 9ers are an unknown with Lance but they arguably have the best front 7 in football and I say it's a top 5 defense overall along with one of the better rushing attacks in the league so their success isn't largely on Lance anyways. Cardinals are a tough team to tell what direction they'll go but they had a noisy offseason and they are missing Hopkins for 6 games which is a big blow for them along with the loss of Chandler Jones.

This is how I also felt it would go, although if Lance bombs it could make second place interesting…..maybe. On top of that the realization that with very little influx of young cheap prospects, effects the team for 2022 and beyond. The direction of the team was the few stars were aging and declining and really no hope for the future without a dramatic change.

 

[Jikkle]

Most Super Bowl winning teams have a dropoff the next year. Especially older teams that lost some key players like Whitworth.

They might not make the Super Bowl this season but their roster is still in pretty good shape and I don't see them dropping off that much.

It's just when you look at the Rams and 49ers rosters and what a hypothetical Seahawks roster with Wilson still onboard it's tough to say what parts of the roster are clearly better than the Rams and 9ers. I think you could argue WR with all the NFC West teams is close but every other aspect of the roster it's tough for me to say I'd definitely take that group of Seahawks over the 9ers and Rams.

 

[flyerhawk]

They might not make the Super Bowl this season but their roster is still in pretty good shape and I don't see them dropping off that much.

It's just when you look at the Rams and 49ers rosters and what a hypothetical Seahawks roster with Wilson still onboard it's tough to say what parts of the roster are clearly better than the Rams and 9ers. I think you could argue WR with all the NFC West teams is close but every other aspect of the roster it's tough for me to say I'd definitely take that group of Seahawks over the 9ers and Rams.

It's hard to compare because the Seahawks wouldn't have Cross or Walker if they still had Wilson.

But if we assume that trade didn't happen then the Seahawks would still have the best QB of the bunch, the best WRs of the bunch and the running game would be a push. Niners TEs would be better but only if Kittle stays healthy.

The Rams still have the best defensive player in football. But I'm not sure how good their defense will be otherwise. The Niners defense could be very good this year or completely average.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think the Rams easily would've secured first place and the 49ers still have a pretty good defense. Would've been 2nd or 3rd between those 2 other teams.

The Cards meanwhile would've gotten 4th place with their dumpster fire of a team and absolutely ridiculous contract they gave Murray. I'm sure they've already written the Seahawks FO a thank you letter for the dumpster fire we're assembling at QB so they can get 3rd.

 

[Screamin12th]

It's hard to compare because the Seahawks wouldn't have Cross or Walker if they still had Wilson.

But if we assume that trade didn't happen then the Seahawks would still have the best QB of the bunch, the best WRs of the bunch and the running game would be a push. Niners TEs would be better but only if Kittle stays healthy.

The Rams still have the best defensive player in football. But I'm not sure how good their defense will be otherwise. The Niners defense could be very good this year or completely average.

Not true, Had the Hawks not gave up their first the last 2 years and their 2nd last year for Jamal Adams I see no reason why they couldn't have got Cross at #10. The draft picks the Hawks gave up for band-aid fixes like I stated what 3 or 4 years ago that it felt like they were TR'ing it ( Tim Ruskell ) It's these moves that costed the Hawks. It eroded the talent level on the roster and a much faster pace.

Also the 49ers don't scare me, we sweep them every year lol. Seattle is 30-17 all time against them so they pretty much win at a 2 to 1 pace Even when they are good we battle hard against them.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not true, Had the Hawks not gave up their first the last 2 years and their 2nd last year for Jamal Adams I see no reason why they couldn't have got Cross at #10. The draft picks the Hawks gave up for band-aid fixes like I stated what 3 or 4 years ago that it felt like they were TR'ing it ( Tim Ruskell ) It's these moves that costed the Hawks. It eroded the talent level on the roster and a much faster pace.

I was referring to the hypothetical of Russ not being traded. I agree completely with you regarding how they have handled things the past few years. Jamal Adams was a panic move that cost the Hawks 2 1st rounders. That was a huge blunder especially that they clearly had no real plan for him beyond "go make plays"

Also the 49ers don't scare me, we sweep them every year lol. Seattle is 30-17 all time against them so they pretty much win at a 2 to 1 pace Even when they are good we battle hard against them.

The Niners are a complete wildcard this year. And not just because of their QB situation.

 

[Podunkparte]

Ok, we have a number. 5 years, 49M. It likely would have had to be higher here to keep him.

How many of you think that's a good idea for a team that would have still had to build an Oline for him without the picks we received from DEN? How likely would it have been to resign DK with that money looming?

You simply can't pay a 34 year old QB that percentage of the cap and expect to be able to then build a team.

IMO this cements the idea that trading him when we did was the right move in order to have a successful team going forward.

 

[Screamin12th]

Ok, we have a number. 5 years, 49M. It likely would have had to be higher here to keep him.

How many of you think that's a good idea for a team that would have still had to build an Oline for him without the picks we received from DEN? How likely would it have been to resign DK with that money looming?

You simply can't pay a 34 year old QB that percentage of the cap and expect to be able to then build a team.

IMO this cements the idea that trading him when we did was the right move in order to have a successful team going forward.

There is ZERO doubts that the ballooning numbers on contracts are going to be very detrimental to the game. Shit is getting out of hand, think about it that 50 million a year player is taking up almost 25% of the WHOLE salary cap. That cap has to include 50 other players ( 51 top paid players are counted if I remember correctly ) When you got 1 WR taking 10% a SS taking 9% a QB taking 25% not a lot left for the other 48 players.

Broncos have to resign Jeudy next year (his final year). Sutton will be there but has a cap hit of 18m per year next year. Wilsons contract Kicks in when the 2024 season starts right? when all those contracts come together they will need to navigate it like the Hawks did when the LOB and Wilson all needed new contracts but these signings are taking much larger chunks and a higher cap percentage than ever before. It's not sustainable. Ticket prices are all ready outrages! Go to a game with you and your buddies for the cost of around 3 car payment lmao.

 

[flyerhawk]

Ok, we have a number. 5 years, 49M. It likely would have had to be higher here to keep him.

How many of you think that's a good idea for a team that would have still had to build an Oline for him without the picks we received from DEN? How likely would it have been to resign DK with that money looming?

You simply can't pay a 34 year old QB that percentage of the cap and expect to be able to then build a team.

IMO this cements the idea that trading him when we did was the right move in order to have a successful team going forward.

We will find out in a few years whether this was a good move or not.

We are doing something no other team has ever done. We will either look like geniuses, if we win the lottery on our QB, or complete idiots and become a cautionary tale.

 

[Anointed One]

This is a pretty good article about the RW moving on to Denver...

Why Russell Wilson gave Broncos break he wouldn't have given Seahawks

Mike Salk says the new Russell Wilson contract with the Broncos gives them a break the Seahawks wouldn't have gotten -- because of control.

sports.mynorthwest.com

 

[cdumler7]

This is a pretty good article about the RW moving on to Denver...

Why Russell Wilson gave Broncos break he wouldn't have given Seahawks

Mike Salk says the new Russell Wilson contract with the Broncos gives them a break the Seahawks wouldn't have gotten -- because of control.

sports.mynorthwest.com

I can tell you this article is true. Wilson wants ownership in what he is doing and the Broncos have let him in on pretty much everything. Before the draft Wilson and George Paton sat down watching every receiver option available. Many believe Wilson was a big part of the Broncos picking Montrell Washington in the 5th round.

I know OL wise there was talk of moving a couple of guys to Center because the Bronco center had a lot of struggles last year. Wilson was asked about it and he said he liked the guy they already have. So Cushenberry has stayed in place so far. Hackett and Wilson have also been attached at the hip and Wilson has had a ton of control over what the playbook looks like for this upcoming season.

The same happened though when Manning came to town. He had input on everything. Obviously that worked out pretty darn good for the Broncos. Have to wait and see if it works out again.