Would the Seahawks have won the division if they hadn't traded RW? ( Also what place in the division)

[HaroldSeattle]

We are speculating on the 2022 season without RW and have posters declaring the Seahawks are throwing away the season ( without RW). That got me thinking what kind of season do folks think they threw away?

 

[flyerhawk]

Here is the Seahawks place in each season that Russ was the QB.

2nd
1st
1st
2nd
1st
2nd
2nd
2nd
1st
4th

Obviously the 4th place season is an outlier and Russ' injury clearly was a primary cause of it.

Not sure why people think that a healthy Russ has suddenly turned into a league average QB. Does anyone really think the 2020 team was more talented than this team?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Not sure why people think that a healthy Russ has suddenly turned into a league average QB.

Wasn't sudden at all, started several years ago and this thread is about how you think 2022 would have went with RW still on the roster, poor draft capitol and tight cap space. Also taking into account the rest of the division have all put together strong rosters, which hasn't been the case prior to 2021.

 

[flyerhawk]

Wasn't sudden at all, started several years ago and this thread is about how you think 2022 would have went with RW still on the roster, poor draft capitol and tight cap space. Also taking into account the rest of the division have all put together strong rosters, which hasn't been the case prior to 2021.

The Seahawks 12-4 2 years ago.

Was the 2020 roster better than the current roster?

I get that people want to move on from Russ especially now that he is not on the team. But it sure seems to me that people want to blame Russ for the team having a bad roster.

Russ wasn't the one who traded 2nd round pick for one year of Sheldon Richardson. He wasn't the one who traded a 2nd round pick for one year of Jadaveon Clowney. He wasn't the one who trade 2 1st round picks for a strong safety. And he certainly wasn't the one who drafted Malik McDowell and LJ Collier.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Seahawks 12-4 2 years ago.

Was the 2020 roster better than the current roster?

In the past, the Seahawks maintained a decent roster while the division would have two easy opponents and maybe one other contender ( they took turns, one would rise, then sink to the bottom, and another would rise then sink to the bottom), 2021 marked the first time all the division rivals has better rosters and the out look for 2022 was gloomy for the Seahawks with RW. How gloomy? Well that's what this poll is for, because in fact, I could see the Seahawks landing in the basement even keeping RW. So 2022 wasn't going to be a winning season either way the Seahawks went IMO.

 

[flyerhawk]

In the past, the Seahawks maintained a decent roster while the division would have two easy opponents and maybe one other contender ( they took turns, one would rise, then sink to the bottom, and another would rise then sink to the bottom), 2021 marked the first time all the division rivals has better rosters and the out look for 2022 was gloomy for the Seahawks with RW. How gloomy? Well that's what this poll is for, because in fact, I could see the Seahawks landing in the basement even keeping RW. So 2022 wasn't going to be a winning season either way the Seahawks went IMO.

So you think the roster is worse now than it was 2 years ago?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So you think the roster is worse now than it was 2 years ago?

Now? Certainly at QB and by a ton and that is negatively effect both offense and defense this season and will require a upgrade next season. Hard to judge this years roster which is loaded with rookies and will take time to evaluate. We all know rookie have to take some knocks and get some experience, even the best of them. Take the rookie book ends at tackle, both will take a season to adjust to the NFL, then hopefully develop.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Probably end up 2nd behind the Rams. Niners breaking in a new full time QB which could take some time and the Cards has Hopkins out 6 games and they have stumbled back half of the seasons. Me having them at 2nd is basing it off of Russ being fully healthy.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

2nd or 3rd but I'd lean 2nd.

 

[flyerhawk]

FTR, I think it is entirely possible that the Rams slide back.

 

[Screamin12th]

The Defense was holding this team back more than anything when Russell was here and the Defense lost BWagz. They will been worse on that side even if Wilson was still here. Until the Hawks cut bait from Jamal Adams or move him to linebacker and get a real SS on the team with real leadership ability and cover ability the Hawks will be a mess. Do you really want Adams in the ears of these young CB/S on the team? I sure as hell don't. His success was all athletic based with zero between the ears.

 

[Podunkparte]

What would the Oline look like had we kept Russ?

 

[seattlefan75]

We probably would be like 2nd place finish with a 1st round exit from the playoffs at best. Which is on par with what the Broncos would probably be.

 

[JMR]

To me, this is an incomplete hypothetical because I think moving forward with RW here would have meant not having PC as HC. I think it was going to be one or the other, and Jody Allen for some reason decided to stick with the 70+ y/o coach instead of the much more difficult to replace HOF level QB. But if the only thing we change here is the trade, then no I don't think we win the div because Pete isn't going to adapt his approach to be successful with a high priced QB and mediocre defense. He has to have a productive ground attack and upper tier defense, and we haven't had both of those things in place in several years.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

To me, this is an incomplete hypothetical because I think moving forward with RW here would have meant not having PC as HC. I think it was going to be one or the other, and Jody Allen for some reason decided to stick with the 70+ y/o coach instead of the much more difficult to replace HOF level QB. But if the only thing we change here is the trade, then no I don't think we win the div because Pete isn't going to adapt his approach to be successful with a high priced QB and mediocre defense. He has to have a productive ground attack and upper tier defense, and we haven't had both of those things in place in several years.

So your saying if Pete got fired and RW didn't insist on a trade the Seahawks win the division? You serious?

 

[JMR]

So your saying if Pete got fired and RW didn't insist on a trade the Seahawks win the division? You serious?

No, that's not what I am saying. If we had RW and a more current era offensive-minded type HC, I think we would be a lot more likely to win the division than if all we did was reverse the trade. There would be at least some hope for me that we could make a jump up from what we have been the last ~5 years with a declining defense but same approach to the game. Put Russ back on the team and make McVay the coach instead of Pete, and which team do you think would have a better chance to win the division? It's not close to me.

Hell, I think Mike Holmgren could get a lot out of this team and a QB like Russell.

 

[JMR]

I guess another way to say how I view this is if RW was here this year then it means PC isn't, and I think that completely changes what you get out of this season and more importantly the ones after it.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

No, that's not what I am saying. If we had RW and a more current era offensive-minded type HC, I think we would be a lot more likely to win the division than if all we did was reverse the trade. There would be at least some hope for me that we could make a jump up from what we have been the last ~5 years with a declining defense but same approach to the game. Put Russ back on the team and make McVay the coach instead of Pete, and which team do you think would have a better chance to win the division? It's not close to me.

Hell, I think Mike Holmgren could get a lot out of this team and a QB like Russell.

So basically it won't matter if Pete was let go and RW stayed, the Seahawks weren't winning the division. Your point apparently was you don't like Pete as HC. Your anti Pete bias was apparent the moment you gave the obligatory age reference that all Pete critics feel they have to state. I feel Pete is a very QB friendly coach but that RW was resistant to changing his game, changes were made ( and RW consulted with the change of OC) to develop RW game away from the back yard football style to a more professional style of using the entire field and going through progressions with various OC, but no matter what was done it always morphed back to RW football style.

 

[flyerhawk]

To me, this is an incomplete hypothetical because I think moving forward with RW here would have meant not having PC as HC. I think it was going to be one or the other, and Jody Allen for some reason decided to stick with the 70+ y/o coach instead of the much more difficult to replace HOF level QB. But if the only thing we change here is the trade, then no I don't think we win the div because Pete isn't going to adapt his approach to be successful with a high priced QB and mediocre defense. He has to have a productive ground attack and upper tier defense, and we haven't had both of those things in place in several years.

This is spot on.

 

[flyerhawk]

So basically it won't matter if Pete was let go and RW stayed, the Seahawks weren't winning the division. Your point apparently was you don't like Pete as HC. Your anti Pete bias was apparent the moment you gave the obligatory age reference that all Pete critics feel they have to state. I feel Pete is a very QB friendly coach but that RW was resistant to changing his game, changes were made ( and RW consulted with the change of OC) to develop RW game away from the back yard football style to a more professional style of using the entire field and going through progressions with various OC, but no matter what was done it always morphed back to RW football style.

It seems like you are unwilling to consider that other people may see things differently. You want to blame RW entirely and think that anyone that blames Pete is just irrationally anti-Pete.

I turned anti-Pete 2 years ago when they let Jadaveon Clowney go and traded 2 1sts for Jamal Adams. More anti-Pete/John though. @JMR and I argued a lot about that offseason because I thought that our defensive line was woefully undermanned. He was more optimistic.

What is the evidence that Pete is a very QB friendly coach? Who are the QBs that have thrived under him?

I love Pete Carroll and will always have a positive view of him. But arguing that the problem wasn't that Pete's system of play it close and rely on a bad defense wasn't the problem but rather Russ was because he wasn't always able to get that game winning drive to win the game seems pretty crazy to me.