trade bait

[Illinest]

The pirates can not afford to pay joel hanrahan.

I dont know if theres anyone who believes that we should keep him or the possible effect that keeping him might have on our chances at .500 but i feel prett comfortable in saying that if he keeps pitching well then he's likely to get 7 or 8 million in arbitration next year. Can we afford to pay a relief pitcher that much? Not likely.

The pirates also can not afford to let the trade deadline pass without dealing bedard. Bedard is a quality arm, pitching well, apparently healthy, and last year he fetched a solid prospect for the mariners when they traded him to the red sox. His value should be even higher this year.

I cant deny that itll probably hurt to see them go but i think its okay to give bedards starts to karstens if hes healthy, lincoln, owens or locke if not, and then convert wilson or morris or someone over to the bullpen as we finish out the year.

Might want to try to move correia too.

I think its reasonable to hope for a good major league ready position player prospect each for bedard and hanrahan. Rather than dealing for bulk failed prospects as we did when bay got traded we should target one quality SS and one quality 1B and do what it takes to land those guys. Even if we have to add a bryan morris or a starling marte in order to get it done.

Something for jurickson profar would be amazing.

 

[fordman84]

The pirates can not afford to pay joel hanrahan.

I dont know if theres anyone who believes that we should keep him or the possible effect that keeping him might have on our chances at .500 but i feel prett comfortable in saying that if he keeps pitching well then he's likely to get 7 or 8 million in arbitration next year. Can we afford to pay a relief pitcher that much? Not likely.

The pirates also can not afford to let the trade deadline pass without dealing bedard. Bedard is a quality arm, pitching well, apparently healthy, and last year he fetched a solid prospect for the mariners when they traded him to the red sox. His value should be even higher this year.

I cant deny that itll probably hurt to see them go but i think its okay to give bedards starts to karstens if hes healthy, lincoln, owens or locke if not, and then convert wilson or morris or someone over to the bullpen as we finish out the year.

Might want to try to move correia too.

I think its reasonable to hope for a good major league ready position player prospect each for bedard and hanrahan. Rather than dealing for bulk failed prospects as we did when bay got traded we should target one quality SS and one quality 1B and do what it takes to land those guys. Even if we have to add a bryan morris or a starling marte in order to get it done.

Something for jurickson profar would be amazing.

Problem is that you have stellar pitching to offer, but Texas isn't really looking for pitching right now. Injuries change a lot, but we are set right now for the back end of our BP and rotation.

No doubt about it though, if you guys are sellers you have some excellent pieces to offer.

 

[grayghost668]

The pirates can not afford to pay joel hanrahan.

I dont know if theres anyone who believes that we should keep him or the possible effect that keeping him might have on our chances at .500 but i feel prett comfortable in saying that if he keeps pitching well then he's likely to get 7 or 8 million in arbitration next year. Can we afford to pay a relief pitcher that much? Not likely.

The pirates also can not afford to let the trade deadline pass without dealing bedard. Bedard is a quality arm, pitching well, apparently healthy, and last year he fetched a solid prospect for the mariners when they traded him to the red sox. His value should be even higher this year.

I cant deny that itll probably hurt to see them go but i think its okay to give bedards starts to karstens if hes healthy, lincoln, owens or locke if not, and then convert wilson or morris or someone over to the bullpen as we finish out the year.

Might want to try to move correia too.

I think its reasonable to hope for a good major league ready position player prospect each for bedard and hanrahan. Rather than dealing for bulk failed prospects as we did when bay got traded we should target one quality SS and one quality 1B and do what it takes to land those guys. Even if we have to add a bryan morris or a starling marte in order to get it done.

Something for jurickson profar would be amazing.

sure trade him trade away any player that is any good,who cares about winning anyways

 

[Illinest]

I care about winning. We wont win without some good position players.
Im surprised at how good the rangers look to us. Even if profar is off the table there are three other interesting SS prospects and a 3B prospect who could allow us to move pedro to 1st. Plus the rangers have andrus at SS and beltre at 3B so the rangers have flexibility to deal from either position if they wanted to.
Well if they dont need pitching then theres nothing we can do about that. We do have some outfielders though. Marte is a solid prospect at CF.

 

[fordman84]

I care about winning. We wont win without some good position players.
Im surprised at how good the rangers look to us. Even if profar is off the table there are three other interesting SS prospects and a 3B prospect who could allow us to move pedro to 1st. Plus the rangers have andrus at SS and beltre at 3B so the rangers have flexibility to deal from either position if they wanted to.
Well if they dont need pitching then theres nothing we can do about that. We do have some outfielders though. Marte is a solid prospect at CF.

I know the saying is you can never have too much pitching, but I think Profar would just be a last resort thing if we were in desperate need.

One near ML position player that might be available for the reasons you listed, have you checked out Mike Olt? Above average defender at 3B that Texas has tinkered with at 1B. He's a top 100 guy, so again not sure how willing we are to move him but he has value as well. We have Adams and Nathan as setup and closer, but man I sure would love to have Hanrahan.

 

[Illinest]

Absolutely, but there are lots of options and no reason for the pirates to get hung up on trading with the rangers if it doesnt make sense for you. Hanrahan might have more value to another team than he does to the rangers. In all honesty i was thinking we would need to give more than hanrahan to have a crack at profar so the only way it might make sense is if one of your starters goes down for the season and you want bedard as a replacement.

I also wasnt fully aware of how his star has grown. I remember talking about profar last trade deadline but he's more valuable now than i imagined. Hitting well in AA. I'm so jealous.

 

[fordman84]

Absolutely, but there are lots of options and no reason for the pirates to get hung up on trading with the rangers if it doesnt make sense for you. Hanrahan might have more value to another team than he does to the rangers. In all honesty i was thinking we would need to give more than hanrahan to have a crack at profar so the only way it might make sense is if one of your starters goes down for the season and you want bedard as a replacement.

I also wasnt fully aware of how his star has grown. I remember talking about profar last trade deadline but he's more valuable now than i imagined. Hitting well in AA. I'm so jealous.

You could always look to LAA for a Hanrahan destination. Not sure what they have in the minors, but Walden is sucking the big one.

 

[thecrow124]

Not sure i would move anyone this year, unless we are floored by an offer. Boston has a definate need for relief pitching, so they may be willing to overpay, i'm just not floored with any of their minor leaguers.

My opinion, we may be more looking to add at the deadline more than subtract. I believe we have a vey weak division and the more we play, the more i think we will actually compete. In order to do that we need to upgrade first and one outfield spot. Marte should improve the outfield, but that still leaves first.

 

[steelparrot]

IF our rotation keeps rolling, I think we stand pat/make a minor trade or 2 like last year.

But just looking at the future, we need to move Bedard and Corriea this summer for sure, we need to get a look at some of our MLB ready starters at some point/add prospects.

You are right about Joel, we have to trade him sometime before next season.

Oh and 1 more thing, it looks like Marte is going to take a big step forward in the BB department this year. He has had 2 2 walk games in the last week.

 

[fordman84]

IF our rotation keeps rolling, I think we stand pat/make a minor trade or 2 like last year.

But just looking at the future, we need to move Bedard and Corriea this summer for sure, we need to get a look at some of our MLB ready starters at some point/add prospects.

You are right about Joel, we have to trade him sometime before next season.

Oh and 1 more thing, it looks like Marte is going to take a big step forward in the BB department this year. He has had 2 2 walk games in the last week.

Doesn't the new extra wildcard start this year? So many rule changes between NCAAF realignment and NFL rule changes, and overtime changes, I can't keep up with rules in all sports and when they kick in. That extra wildcard spot could make deadline deals even more "last minute" because a team that is just a few games out of the 2nd WC at the deadline might try to make a run.

 

[Illinest]

Keep in mind that if we keep bedard we will only be keeping him for 15 games or so. If bedard's 15 games are all ace level but his replacement pitcher's games are all turd-like then it may mean the difference between going 10-5 in those starts vs 5-10. Is five extra wins in 2012 a good enough reason to pass on whatever trade piece is offered up in return?

Obviously itll be painful if we finish 79 and 83 and wonder what might have been, but bedard could get a really good prospect for us and if bedard likes the ballclub enough then maybe hell sign another contract following the season. We could conceivably get him right back in other words.

Hanrahan is simpler. I dont think hes worth what he's likely to get in arbitration. We can keep him through the season and trade him during the offseason if you prefer.

Just one more thing. Is there anyone here who would like to have undone the trade that sent jose mesa away and gave us james mcdonald? We should try to follow that blueprint again.

 

[sychmd]

CF: we keep marte as he will be a star on offense and defense in CF.
LF: Move cutch to LF. cutch has speed but really isnt that good of CF and with minimal arm.
RF: if tabata really his stated age, keep him in RF. warming spot for bell in 2015.
2B: Walker
!B: Pedro by 2015 or earlier if we get the stud 3B - see below.

mcgehee is curios as to what he might resurrect. he looks closer to old form and with some other bats in the lineup perking up, could be interesting.

we need to hope presley, jones, mcgehee do well as they could be great trade bait with bedard, burnett, correia, and grilli, harahan and cruz and resop as well as many pitching prospects in AAA and AA that we need to make the right scouting assessment as to who we want and who others perceive well that we know are doubtful to attain that perceived ceiling(this is where our scouts of our team and our scouts that scout other teams have failed over the last 15 years)

hard for me to trade a reliable closer as it is so demoralizing to give away a game at the end that the team worked 8 innings to win. hard t odevelop optimism and confidence that way, even though it is only 45 innings per year.

in the next 2 years, we need these 3 key pieaces that we arent growing ourselves.
1. SS who digs and hits
2. Catcher who can call a game and be a productive hitter. but defense and calling a game is most important. we see the difference with barajas.
3. 3B with mega bat as pedro will be at first in 2-3 years no matter what to really focus on his emerging 40homer 950 OPS abilities.

we have to look at 2014 as the year to really be very strong contenders with 1. taillon, 2. cole, 3. morton, 4. mcdonald, 5. owens/karstens/lincoln/wilson/ZVR/etc and alderson or lincoln or other as closer.

we need to trade for high end quality, esp since we have lots of pitching depth to use as chips. cant go for quantity. we have young guys that will be here awhile, so minors depth not essential and we can purge a bunch to get those 3 key guys. we have plenty of navarros and harrisons and grossmans and dickerson/curry/hague to be bench.

sorry this truned out longer than i intended but ...... i need some ice cream.

 

[TheBurgh88]

I think the deal was Dotel for McDonald and Lambo.

One hell of a steal. If they could do that again for Hanrahan I wouldn't complain.

 

[Illinest]

I think you're right. It's hard to keep track of all of the forgettable relief pitchers and middle infielders that Neil specializes in acquiring.

 

[element1286]

Don't see the need to start trading everyone away, I think the organization is past the point of trading everyone for the sake of stockpiling prospects.

They aren't getting Profar.

 

[thecrow124]

Don't see the need to start trading everyone away, I think the organization is past the point of trading everyone for the sake of stockpiling prospects.

They aren't getting Profar.

My thoughts exactly, said more succinctly. There are other players i would rather target other than Profar. I also think Texas brass has said he is untouchable.

 

[Illinest]

Thats a mischaracterization of the argument element. Hanrahan will need to be traded for the same reason that im assured every year that we cant afford to sign a free agent. Trade him or get nothing when you cant afford to pay him.
Bedard needs to be traded because a good prospect is more valuable than a few extra wins in 2012. Bedard is leaving at the end of the season anyways.

This isnt about starting a firesale. This is about being smart enough to realize that we can turn assets into cheaper assets or we can lose the asset and get to keep nothing.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think we need to keep this team together this year and win as many games as possible, because then maybe guys like Oswalt will at least return our calls in free agency, and we won't have to offer Clint Barmes $5 million per to sign on with us.

This team needs to win games in order to attract free agents, but if we trade away contributors, those same free agents will be turned off of us.

 

[Illinest]

Id rather have a talented, cost controlled SS, C, corner infield or pitching prospect than any of those things.

 

[element1286]

Thats a mischaracterization of the argument element. Hanrahan will need to be traded for the same reason that im assured every year that we cant afford to sign a free agent. Trade him or get nothing when you cant afford to pay him.
Bedard needs to be traded because a good prospect is more valuable than a few extra wins in 2012. Bedard is leaving at the end of the season anyways.

This isnt about starting a firesale. This is about being smart enough to realize that we can turn assets into cheaper assets or we can lose the asset and get to keep nothing.

Ok, say the Pirates are 5 games out on July 30th, are you still trading these guys?