The Great Russell Wilson

[Manster7588]

9 is the only no# you have to worry about and being a starter from game 1 and not missing a game

Wrong. Its 2 and 9, but only in specific windows.

 

[Wazmankg]

Compare Marino's college comp% to Wilsons, yep....inferior. Compare his NFL completion % to Wilson's, yep, inferior. Compare their college/NFL passer ratings, all Wilson.

There is nothing that has Marino a superior passer, the HUGE MASSIVE difference is unlike Wilson he threw the hell out of the football.

Check out Duper and Clayton college numbers, no Marino didn't make them at all.

What does it matter what they did in college? @wilwhite already compared their 1st 9 seasons for you, compared to their fellow QBs of their respective eras. As you've been informed several times in this thread that is the only fair way to compare QBs due to the rule changes that have made passing much easier during Wilson's career. Wilson did not fare well in that comparison.

But you ignored his analysis because that's what you do here when someone dunks on you. In any case here is that again.

If the league passes for as many yards as he does, he's average. That's just math.

Since we were talking about Marino, I checked him against the league average for his first nine years.

He had over 6,000 more yards, 77 more TDs, 30 fewer interceptions, and 246 fewer sacks than the league average.

Compare that with Wilson's 50 fewer yards, 40 more TDs, 42 fewer INTs, and 55 more sacks.

Edge goes to Wilson in INTs, but Marino beats him easily in TDs and absolutely annihilates him in yardage and sacks.



Honestly, did you realize Wilson's passing yards were actually under the league average for his career?

Also completion % is roughly a wash.. both were 2-3% better than average.

 

[RaZon]

What does it matter what they did in college? @wilwhite already compared their 1st 9 seasons for you, compared to their fellow QBs of their respective eras. As you've been informed several times in this thread that is the only fair way to compare QBs due to the rule changes that have made passing much easier during Wilson's career. Wilson did not fare well in that comparison.

But you ignored his analysis because that's what you do here when someone dunks on you. In any case here is that again.



Also completion % is roughly a wash.. both were 2-3% better than average.

Dude, first nine seasons....

Wilson TD/INT....267/81
Marino....246/149

Ouch!!

Wilson by far the better runner, has a better comp% has a better passer rating,

Reality!

 

[Wazmankg]

Dude, first nine seasons....

Wilson TD/INT....267/81
Marino....246/149

Ouch!!

Wilson by far the better runner, has a better comp% has a better passer rating,

Reality!

Reality starts for you when you start comparing Wilson vs his contemporaries and Marino vs his contemporaries and then compare the differences, because... AGAIN it is much easier to pass in Wilson's era due to the rule changes.

Marino threw for 77 more TDs than league average his first 9 seasons.
Wilson threw for 40 more TDs than league average his first 9 seasons.
Big edge Marino.

Marino threw for 6000 more yards than league average his first 9 seasons.
Wilson threw for 50 fewer yards than league average his first 9 seasons.
OUCH! Massive edge Marino.

1st team all-pro Marino - 3
1st team all-pro Wilson... uh oh .. zip.


If Wilson has such great wheels why does he let himself get sacked so much. He was sacked more in the last 3 seasons than Marino was his first 9 seasons combined. Marino could barely even run, yet somehow he managed not to be a sack machine. Why?

Reality! Get some!

 

[wazzu31]

Dude, why the BS? Who had a better first nine seasons than Wilson, yep....NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why make shit up guy?

It has already been stated Brady and Montana easily had the better first 9 seasons. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly both have arguments. The other people who started off their careers with your lame arguments are all TBD because they haven’t had 9 years in the league.

 

[RaZon]

It has already been stated Brady and Montana easily had the better first 9 seasons. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly both have arguments. The other people who started off their careers with your lame arguments are all TBD because they haven’t had 9 years in the league.

So if talking....

pro bowls
starts
comp%
TD/INT
4000 yards seasons
passer rating
rushing

Those you mentioned were more impressive than Russell Wilson, No they weren;t.

I started to do a Jim Kelly vs Russell Wilson, trust me, not remotely close, all Russell Wilson,

 

[wazzu31]

So if talking....

pro bowls
starts
comp%
TD/INT
4000 yards seasons
passer rating
rushing

Those you mentioned were more impressive than Russell Wilson, No they weren;t.

But they are if you actually understand football. Your argument is rushing yards and isn’t a good argument when you say what quarterback has a more impressive first 9 seasons. Sure when you do you and you boil it down to which guy has the most 3rd quarter touchdowns when down by 6 points you have an argument. You quote cute stats but those do not equal an impressive season. I’ll let you do you and name another QB that has even been mentioned in your thread that the team gets worse when his “stats” as you think get better?

 

[RaZon]

Montana only played in two 16 game seasons his first nine seasons. He played in 30ish less games than Wilson. His numbers not close at all. All Wilson.

 

[RaZon]

But they are if you actually understand football. Your argument is rushing yards and isn’t a good argument when you say what quarterback has a more impressive first 9 seasons. Sure when you do you and you boil it down to which guy has the most 3rd quarter touchdowns when down by 6 points you have an argument. You quote cute stats but those do not equal an impressive season. I’ll let you do you and name another QB that has even been mentioned in your thread that the team gets worse when his “stats” as you think get better?

My argument is....

rushing yards
starts
pro bowls
comp%
TD/INT
Passer rating
4000 yard seasons

Nobody ever did it better in nine seasons than Russell Wilson......fact!

 

[RaZon]

Who compared to this their first nine seasons....

144 starts
65.1 comp%
33946 yards
267/81 td/int
101.7 passer rating
SB winner
7 pro bowls
4506 rushing yards

well?

 

[wazzu31]

My argument is....

rushing yards
starts
pro bowls
comp%
TD/INT
Passer rating
4000 yard seasons

Nobody ever did it better in nine seasons than Russell Wilson......fact!

You have rushing yards
Starts aren’t always on the QB. Wilson won it by default because Flynn got injured
Everyone makes the pro bowl
His TD/INT ratio has always been great, no one can deny that. He goes on tears for stretches then starts making dumb INT then they pull back the offense
Passer rating can be manipulated. It is a nice gauge but no one can say any team feared Russell Wilson in his first two years. Then from then on, the higher his rating went the further away from a super bowl they got.

You cannot say you know anything about football and say Wilson’s first 9 were more impressive than Brady’s or Montana’s. A more impressive 9 years would’ve meant a win vs the Pats, and not start a political war within his locker room that saw all the Alpha Males on defense depart.

 

[RaZon]

You have rushing yards
Starts aren’t always on the QB. Wilson won it by default because Flynn got injured
Everyone makes the pro bowl
His TD/INT ratio has always been great, no one can deny that. He goes on tears for stretches then starts making dumb INT then they pull back the offense
Passer rating can be manipulated. It is a nice gauge but no one can say any team feared Russell Wilson in his first two years. Then from then on, the higher his rating went the further away from a super bowl they got.

You cannot say you know anything about football and say Wilson’s first 9 were more impressive than Brady’s or Montana’s. A more impressive 9 years would’ve meant a win vs the Pats, and not start a political war within his locker room that saw all the Alpha Males on defense depart.

Dude, Montana played in 30 games less, made less pro bowls, worst comp %, less yards, inferior TD/INT, inferior passr rating, inferior rushing yards.

What in the hell are you talking about?

You know football, hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom Brady sat on a bench and like Montana all his stats are inferior to what Wilson did. Brady played in 32 less games than Wilson.

Dude, stop, you are looking bad, ok?

 

[Wazmankg]

My argument is....

rushing yards
starts

These ^ are your only 2 criteria that do not have to be adjusted for era and one could argue that even starts should be adjusted for era given that the rules protect QBs from injury much better during Wilson's era and getting injured is the reason QBs miss starts.

pro bowls

10 QBs made the pro bowl Wilson's 1st season. Whoopie.

comp%
TD/INT
Passer rating
4000 yard seasons

Every single one of these stats have to be adjusted for era when comparing QBs from different eras. The league average for all of them has improved over time due to rule changes that have promoted the passing game and protected QBs. Touting passing yards is particularly absurd since Wilson passing yard stats are actually below average when compared to his contemporaries.

Nobody ever did it better in nine seasons than Russell Wilson......fact!

Incorrect.

 

[wilwhite]

except, you are ignoring that he has been a great runner too...



Lets look at it this way as well... there are only 25 QBs with 100+ wins

of those 25 QBs, 14 of them including Wilson have a W/L % of over .600

of those 14 players only 1 non current players did not make the HOF that's Donnovan McNabb...

And Wilson has already passed McNabb in every possible football stat except Pass Yards...


call them meaningless stats, but they all are important

His W/L record is already HOF worthy
his # of pro-bowls is Already HOF worthy
He has a SB win
he is 4th all time in QB rating
19th all time in TDs thrown
hes 4th all time in QB rushing yards

I hadn't thought about the wins. That's a compelling argument in his favor.

Pro Bowl appearances are only a measure of being consistently above average. When 10 or 11 QBs make the Pro Bowl in a given year, those aren't the A students, it's also the B students.

For everything else, here's how much the game has changed, and how benchmarks have changed:

1986-1990 NFL team averages vs. 2016-2020 NFL team averages
Comp %: 55.3 ... 63.7
Yards: 3209 ... 3772
TDs: 20.8 ... 25.3
INTs: 19.4 ... 12.9
Rating: 75.0 ... 90.6

One thing that didn't change (at least from 1978-2020) is wins. He'll end up top-10 in wins, and that should get him into the Hall.

 

[Wamu]

Montana only played in two 16 game seasons his first nine seasons. He played in 30ish less games than Wilson. His numbers not close at all. All Wilson.

If Montana only played in all 16 games 2 times his first 9 years in the league why do his career stats from pro-football-ref.com say otherwise?

'79- played in all 16 (started one)
'81- started all 16
'83- started all 16
'84- played in all 16 (started 15)

Do you think Wilson's better than Montana?

 

[RaZon]

These ^ are your only 2 criteria that do not have to be adjusted for era and one could argue that even starts should be adjusted for era given that the rules protect QBs from injury much better during Wilson's era and getting injured is the reason QBs miss starts.



10 QBs made the pro bowl Wilson's 1st season. Whoopie.



Every single one of these stats have to be adjusted for era when comparing QBs from different eras. The league average for all of them has improved over time due to rule changes that have promoted the passing game and protected QBs. Touting passing yards is particularly absurd since Wilson passing yard stats are actually below average when compared to his contemporaries.



Incorrect.

So who had the best first nine seasonsif it wasn't Wilson?

 

[RaZon]

If Montana only played in all 16 games 2 times his first 9 years in the league why do his career stats from pro-football-ref.com say otherwise?

'79- played in all 16 (started one)
'81- started all 16
'83- started all 16
'84- played in all 16 (started 15)

Do you think Wilson's better than Montana?

My bad, that was starts.

Joe Montana Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Joe Montana. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees are all better than Montana. BUT......if we do the dominance of era thing then it's only Brady, Otto Graham in the discusson if talking dominance of era.

Imagine those guys back in the days of Montana vs those defenses.

 

[RaZon]

Time to wrap this up.

Simply about numbers here, just numbers, ok?

In their first nine seasons what QB scored more points than this....

pro bowls....7
16 games played.....9
60 or better comp%...9
25 or more TD passes....7
less than 10 INT....5
passer rating a 100 or more...6
500 yards rushing....6


Add that up....49

Give me a QB who scored more points than 49 using that criteria than Russell Wilson. Just talking numbers.

 

[RaZon]

Tom THE GOAT Brady

pro bowls....4
16 games played....6
60 or better comp%....8
25 or more TDpasses....4
less than 10 INT....3
passer rating a 100 or more....1
500 yards rushing....haha!!

So THE GOAT scores....26

So who can score more than 49?

 

[gohusk]

My bad, that was starts.

Joe Montana Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Joe Montana. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees are all better than Montana. BUT......if we do the dominance of era thing then it's only Brady, Otto Graham in the discusson if talking dominance of era.

Imagine those guys back in the days of Montana vs those defenses.

montana played in the era of "taking your free shot" at the qb if you got there with one step (that and a bunch of other shit). a great qb is going to be a great qb in any era but the 80's were a brutal decade to a qb.