The 2015 Starting Rotation - 2 Cy Young Winners and a Bunch of Injuries

[Smed55]

You doing it wrong every time doesn't make you look any less incompetent. Figure it out, stop blaming technology because you're too old and your fingers are too fat.

Wow, you hit me with the too old and fat fingers zinger, boy you got me good there Buckwheat, what a tool!
Sorry but you are wrong AGAIN! I do it occasionally ,excuse me all to hell, but if you want to try to throw the conversation off the topic because your points aren't valid, have at it!

 

[Villain]

Wow, you hit me with the too old and fat fingers zinger, boy you got me good there Buckwheat, what a tool!
Sorry but you are wrong AGAIN! I do it occasionally ,excuse me all to hell, but if you want to try to throw the conversation off the topic because your points aren't valid, have at it!

How are my points invalid?

 

[Smed55]

How are my points invalid?

Because all you see are Metric numbers, yes metrics are an "additional" tool (like yourself) that "some" people look at when judging players. It's also not a factual tool, you know like actual numbers that players put up! Most metrics are if this player does this under these situations, you might be able to expect this player to put up these numbers, that is not a fact, it's a guesstamation!
But according to you it's the Gospel and the ONLY definitive way to judge players.

 

[Villain]

Because all you see are Metric numbers, yes metrics are an "additional" tool (like yourself) that "some" people look at when judging players. It's also not a factual tool, you know like actual numbers that players put up! Most metrics are if this player does this under these situations, you might be able to expect this player to put up these numbers, that is not a fact, it's a guesstamation!
But according to you it's the Gospel and the ONLY definitive way to judge players.

They are factual numbers. His fastball velocity is factual. He K% and BB% are facts. The way those numbers compare to his career numbers are facts.

None of the numbers I posted are future projections. None of them are estimates. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Smed55]

They are factual numbers. His fastball velocity is factual. He K% and BB% are facts. The way those numbers compare to his career numbers are facts.

None of the numbers I posted are future projections. None of them are estimates. What the hell are you talking about?

I'm referring to pretty much every post you make. I don't take anything you say seriously! Say what Yiu want, teams still would take him, you know why, because overall his numbers are still pretty good, he's a proven winner, he still gets people out! Some guys adjust, they don't have to blow it by people, ever hear of a guy name Greg Maddox, velocity might mean something to a guy that counts on strikeouts, Shields gets guys out, as you say Period!

 

[Villain]

I'm referring to pretty much every post you make. I don't take anything you say seriously! Say what Yiu want, teams still would take him, you know why, because overall his numbers are still pretty good, he's a proven winner, he still gets people out! Some guys adjust, they don't have to blow it by people, ever hear of a guy name Greg Maddox, velocity might mean something to a guy that counts on strikeouts, Shields gets guys out, as you say Period!

Oh you're not even referring to the lengthy post with excellent points I bothered to make to respond to you? Just "pretty much every post" that I make. Why do you even bother posting on here? You're not even making a point. You're just ignoring all the points I made earlier and repeating yourself.

 

[Villain]

My wish list:

Price
Hamels
Latos

Already 33.3% there!

 

[Smed55]

Oh you're not even referring to the lengthy post with excellent points I bothered to make to respond to you? Just "pretty much every post" that I make. Why do you even bother posting on here? You're not even making a point. You're just ignoring all the points I made earlier and repeating yourself.

Oh you're not even referring to the lengthy post with excellent points I bothered to make to respond to you? Just "pretty much every post" that I make. Why do you even bother posting on here? You're not even making a point. You're just ignoring all the points I made earlier and repeating yourself.

The so called "excellent" points that you are "so called" making, are excellent in your mind. A lot of people on here are tired of your metrics metrics metrics, ramblings! I've a had a couple posters on here PM me and they just don't even acknowledge you anymore, they are tired of arguing with you, and your all mighty self righteous Bullshit! I guess I'm just not tired of it yet, I enjoy
your "so called excellent points" they are quite humerous! I'm surprised teams don't come to you for the vast inside knowledge that teams don't see like you do!

 

[Villain]

So, it's just like the other "debate." I bring up valid points and you don't even bother to acknowledge them. Once again, we're at a dead end.

I'm done responding to you until you actually have something meaningful to say.

 

[Smed55]

Oh my Villian is now resorting to hitting the little dislike button

I don't have to hit some little BS button, I think you can tell I dislike your post by my comments!

Oh and by the way, I guess teams should have released Shields 5 years ago when he had his worst year, I guess maybe his velocity was down that year? Pitchers do have down years, you do realize that don't you

 

[Villain]

Check out how Wood, Hamels, and Price stack up over the last few years:

Major League Leaderboards 2015 Pitchers Custom Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[OutlawImmortal]

You know what, I had a longer post about how stupid this whole intangible "winner" thing is, and how there's about a gajillion examples of why it's stupid, but I don't even want to try to change your guys' minds. If you want to buy into those kinds of Plaschke-type narratives, have at it and have fun. Don't forget to wipe George Will's butt when your done.

Anyways, I'll boil down to a better point. WHY DON'T YOU WANT COLE HAMELS?! He compares better than James Shields in literally every way. Just go down the list:

*Playoff Success? He was the NLCS and WS MVP in 2008. Went to the WS again in 2009.
*More than just a rental? Yep. Both under team control until 2019. Hamels only costs $1.5mil more per year.
*Wait, they're both in the 30s! Hamels is 2 years younger than Shields.
*You said these older guys are getting worse! Yeah, that's true. I'm not crazy about the end of Hamels' deal. That's why he's not my first choice. But, even I can't deny that he's actually GAINED a few ticks on the gun this year!

I can't think of a single thing that James Shields would bring to the Dodgers that Cole Hamels doesn't also bring, but in a better way. Even his wife is hotter!

Never said I didn't, I said the Dodgers don't NEED another Ace and a more realistic target would be someone a little less than an Ace. I would have loved to have Hamels sure, but he is going to the Rangers, what a surprise.

How did your stats work out with Uribe, despite your love for him you expressed in that thread you dedicated to him. I claimed he wasn't good enough to be an everyday starter on a team with the Dodgers' kind of depth and he was traded for that exact same reason. Maybe if Shields had bigger biceps you'd love him more, you seemed pretty impressed with Uribe's "donuts".

Already 33.3% there!

Latos is far from an Ace, he has worse numbers than Shields too and is younger, you should be infuriated judging by how much you hate bad stats. He isn't even under team control after this season too, oh wait, you just hate players who aren't on your homer list.

 

[Villain]

Never said I didn't, I said the Dodgers don't NEED another Ace and a more realistic target would be someone a little less than an Ace. I would have loved to have Hamels sure, but he is going to the Rangers, what a surprise.

How did your stats work out with Uribe, despite your love for him you expressed in that thread you dedicated to him. I claimed he wasn't good enough to be an everyday starter on a team with the Dodgers' kind of depth and he was traded for that exact same reason. Maybe if Shields had bigger biceps you'd love him more, you seemed pretty impressed with Uribe's "donuts".

I wasn't in favor of the Uribe trade. I'd rather have Uribe than Callaspo.

Latos is far from an Ace, he has worse numbers than Shields too

Latos' numbers are better than Shields' numbers.

and is younger,

That's a good thing. You want younger pitchers. Hamels is younger than Shields, that was a point in Hamels' favor as I was arguing the pros and cons.

you should be infuriated judging by how much you hate bad stats.

I don't know what that even means.

He isn't even under team control after this season too,

Well, if you go back and look at my original wish list on the "ace" pitchers, you'll see that Hamels was ranked BEHIND Cueto and Price. I'm actually not crazy about the length of Hamels' deal. I only brought it up in comparison to Shields to demonstrate that they are under control for the same amount of time and almost the same amount of money - with Hamels being younger and better in every way. Read up.

In fact, this winters' Free Agent class is so strong, that I like the Dodgers' flexibility. I'd rather have the option to sign a younger Cueto, Zimmermann, Price, etc. than be stuck with an older Hamels. I will admit that I could live with Hamels' deal, though. He is likely to be productive for the duration.

oh wait, you just hate players who aren't on your homer list.

That's awesome! I have a homer list! A homer list of players on different teams!!! Hahahahaha!! Who else is on my list?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I wasn't in favor of the Uribe trade. I'd rather have Uribe than Callaspo.



Latos' numbers are better than Shields' numbers.



That's a good thing. You want younger pitchers. Hamels is younger than Shields, that was a point in Hamels' favor as I was arguing the pros and cons.



I don't know what that even means.



Well, if you go back and look at my original wish list on the "ace" pitchers, you'll see that Hamels was ranked BEHIND Cueto and Price. I'm actually not crazy about the length of Hamels' deal. I only brought it up in comparison to Shields to demonstrate that they are under control for the same amount of time and almost the same amount of money - with Hamels being younger and better in every way. Read up.

In fact, this winters' Free Agent class is so strong, that I like the Dodgers' flexibility. I'd rather have the option to sign a younger Cueto, Zimmermann, Price, etc. than be stuck with an older Hamels. I will admit that I could live with Hamels' deal, though. He is likely to be productive for the duration.



That's awesome! I have a homer list! A homer list of players on different teams!!! Hahahahaha!! Who else is on my list?

Uh, you do know that he was traded because he wanted to be an everyday player right? And Justin Turner has been performing like an all-star? So what you're saying is that you'd rather have Uribe start everyday than have Turner starting and Callaspo on days off.

No, Latos' numbers aren't better than Shields numbers. Show me your SABR stats that prove this lol, he has a worse W/L ratio, worse K% and worse ERA.

I don't why you're having trouble understanding, no one was arguing Hamels vs Shields in the first place. I simply thought a pitcher LIKE Shields (not Shields himself exactly, perhaps a Latos???) would be easier to obtain. Shields is believed by some to be on the move after the deadline, he's cheaper than Hamels. Acquiring Hamels was unrealistic, that was my point before you went on this tirade about Hamels vs Shields and asking why we didn't want Hamels. Perhaps you need to read up.

Okay, first you say that the Dodgers don't need to save any money, now you say they need to keep their flexibility. Which is it?

And Latos is on our team now, did you forget already?

 

[Villain]

Uh, you do know that he was traded because he wanted to be an everyday player right? And Justin Turner has been performing like an all-star? So what you're saying is that you'd rather have Uribe start everyday than have Turner starting and Callaspo on days off.

Yes, I understand the situation completely. I don't know what your point is. I hated to see Uribe go, but I understand why it happened.

No, Latos' numbers aren't better than Shields numbers. Show me your SABR stats that prove this lol, he has a worse W/L ratio, worse K% and worse ERA.

Honestly, you lose the argument as soon as you reference W/L. Seriously dude. W/L? Get that shit outta here.

You want SABR stats?

FIP: 3.34 Latos, 4.11 Shields
K%: 21.2% Latos, 26.3% Shields*
BB%: 6.7% Latos, 8.4% Shields
WAR: 1.4 Latos, 1.0 Shields**
HR/FB: 9.2% Latos, 17.9% Shields

*Yeah, Shields has a better K% than Latos. As I mentioned earlier, Shields' K% is abnormally high compared to his career numbers. Considering his age and his decreasing velocity, I don't believe this K% to be sustainable and I think he is likely to regress. Latos' career K% is 21.9% so he is right were he's always been. That means that we can trust that his K% will not fluctuate as dramatically.

**WAR is not an averaged stat. It is cumulative over time spend on the field. Latos had a horrible start to the year (FWIW, he blames that on an injury), and then he spent a good amount of time on the DL. Since his return from the DL, his numbers have been outrageously good. With less time playing and with a bad start to the year, Latos has very rapidly outpaced Shields in WAR. This gap should be expected to grow as the season continues.

I don't why you're having trouble understanding, no one was arguing Hamels vs Shields in the first place. I simply thought a pitcher LIKE Shields (not Shields himself exactly, perhaps a Latos???) would be easier to obtain. Shields is believed by some to be on the move after the deadline, he's cheaper than Hamels. Acquiring Hamels was unrealistic, that was my point before you went on this tirade about Hamels vs Shields and asking why we didn't want Hamels. Perhaps you need to read up.

Okay, Hamels and Shields are not coming. I don't care anymore. I'm not going to talk about them anymore. I've said enough.

Okay, first you say that the Dodgers don't need to save any money, now you say they need to keep their flexibility. Which is it?

I'm legitimately surprised that I have to explain this to you. Flexibility and saving money are not the same thing. Money is not a problem for the Dodgers. The Dodgers can pay for any player they want. Mark Walter has been quoted saying something along the lines of "If you told me I could spend $500 million on a roster and win the World Series, I'd do it." But, baseball doesn't work that way. The Dodgers' limiting factor is roster spots and talent. I don't want to lock up a roster spot with James Shields for 4 years because he's not good enough. I'd rather give that spot to someone else, like any one of the hugely expensive free agents that will be available this winter.

And Latos is on our team now, did you forget already?

Technically speaking, the deal isn't done yet.

 

[LASports96]

fuck Price lol

4+ years of control of Alex Wood > 10 starts of Price, IMO

 

[Villain]

While we're here, I'm going to make it known that I don't see Latos as an ace. He's a back of the rotation guy with the potential to be an ace (like he was in SD). But for now, I'm seeing him as a 3 or 4 starter.

 

[Villain]

fuck Price

4+ years of control of Alex Wood > 10 starts of Price

Hell yea, don't trade Wood for Price. Trade someone else for Price haha

 

[LASports96]

Hell yea, don't trade Wood for Price. Trade someone else for Price haha

I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen gah

and if it's Wood + something else good I'm gonna be against it

Dodgers absolutely screwed Atlanta over so hard, don't throw it away

 

[Villain]

I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen gah

and if it's Wood + something else good I'm gonna be against it

Another Kendrick/Heaney.