Stop rooting for your team to lose to get better draft odds

[msgkings322]

Seriously, it's counter-productive. If your team is a lottery team, being 26th in the league is not much different than 24th. The odds no longer skew as much towards worse teams, and whatever skew you get isn't worth hoping your team is so bad that they don't win games.

Players don't tank. They are out there playing for their careers. You really want them to be so lacking in talent that they lose more than other teams? Even with your high draft pick those guys are still the rest of your team. You should root for your team to win and show that what they have is still some talent.

Just a quick rant. Fight me.

 

[bksballer89]

Fight me.

When and where?

 

[msgkings322]

When and where?

Wiggy's double-wide, after the Gonzaga game

 

[CitySushi]

Seriously, it's counter-productive. If your team is a lottery team, being 26th in the league is not much different than 24th. The odds no longer skew as much towards worse teams, and whatever skew you get isn't worth hoping your team is so bad that they don't win games.

Players don't tank. They are out there playing for their careers. You really want them to be so lacking in talent that they lose more than other teams? Even with your high draft pick those guys are still the rest of your team. You should root for your team to win and show that what they have is still some talent.

Just a quick rant. Fight me.

Players don't tank, but organizations and coaching staffs definitely can. There's a difference in telling a player to play only 80% of his capability versus only playing them 80% of their typical minutes. There's ways to circumvent diminishing a players skill and accomplish losing at the same time. In fact in most cases of losing, it's optimal for developmental reasons. The more playing time and experience young players get the better their development will be in the future.

What you should be rooting for is not necessarily the wins or the losses if the team is not in a point to contend or make noise in the playoffs. You should be rooting for development. Watching growth of the young guys. Watching the improving skill sets of other core pieces.

No one actively wants to root for a bad team or root for losses. But there's enough foresight to see that there is a bigger picture ahead instead of being immediately results oriented. That's my biggest problem with the Warriors organization and more importantly Steve Kerr right now.

I've always given Mark Jackson his due in building up Steph and Klay. He gave them an opportunity to make mistakes and grow as players. Without Mark Jackson, Steph and Klay are not the same players they are today. Just a year previous to Mark Jackson, Keith Smart was benching Steph Curry for Acie Law at the end of the games. For what? Kerr is now doing the same thing benching Wiseman for Looney. Poole couldn't even crack the rotation a until a few weeks ago. FOR WHAT?

 

[msgkings322]

Players don't tank, but organizations and coaching staffs definitely can. There's a difference in telling a player to play only 80% of his capability versus only playing them 80% of their typical minutes. There's ways to circumvent diminishing a players skill and accomplish losing at the same time. In fact in most cases of losing, it's optimal for developmental reasons. The more playing time and experience young players get the better their development will be in the future.

What you should be rooting for is not necessarily the wins or the losses if the team is not in a point to contend or make noise in the playoffs. You should be rooting for development. Watching growth of the young guys. Watching the improving skill sets of other core pieces.

No one actively wants to root for a bad team or root for losses. But there's enough foresight to see that there is a bigger picture ahead instead of being immediately results oriented. That's my biggest problem with the Warriors organization and more importantly Steve Kerr right now.

I've always given Mark Jackson his due in building up Steph and Klay. He gave them an opportunity to make mistakes and grow as players. Without Mark Jackson, Steph and Klay are not the same players they are today. Just a year previous to Mark Jackson, Keith Smart was benching Steph Curry for Acie Law at the end of the games. For what? Kerr is now doing the same thing benching Wiseman for Looney. Poole couldn't even crack the rotation a until a few weeks ago. FOR WHAT?

I see you've expertly turned my tanking thread into another Kerr bashing, which is fine, I respect the hustle.

My only comment would be that Poole was looking pretty overmatched, then they sent him to the G league and he figured out some things, and now he's a nice bench piece. That's what the G league is for.

As far as Wiseman, who knows. As fans we only see the outside view. We don't know what the coaches and players talk about, how they look in practice, etc. I defer to the pros who know 100x what I do.

Here's Kerr himself on the Wiseman topic:

Kerr: Can't force issue with Wiseman's growth

Steve Kerr is confident Warriors rookie James Wiseman will find his rhythm down the stretch of the season but said Monday that you "can't force the issue" by giving the big man more minutes.

www.espn.com

 

[CitySushi]

I see you've expertly turned my tanking thread into another Kerr bashing, which is fine, I respect the hustle.

My only comment would be that Poole was looking pretty overmatched, then they sent him to the G league and he figured out some things, and now he's a nice bench piece. That's what the G league is for.

As far as Wiseman, who knows. As fans we only see the outside view. We don't know what the coaches and players talk about, how they look in practice, etc. I defer to the pros who know 100x what I do.

Here's Kerr himself on the Wiseman topic:

Kerr: Can't force issue with Wiseman's growth

Steve Kerr is confident Warriors rookie James Wiseman will find his rhythm down the stretch of the season but said Monday that you "can't force the issue" by giving the big man more minutes.

www.espn.com

It wasn't necessarily intended as a Kerr bashing, only to illustrate that "tanking" is an organizational deal more so than players. Kerr was just an example. I could have used Mark Jackson when they tanked to get Harrison Barnes, but I'm using a more recent example.

The Kerr example is to point out the inefficiencies of tanking versus the upside of tanking. There is a reason why an organization would elect to do so. BUT to your point there is merit with trying to push your players to play their best. And I think that should ALWAYS be the case. But you can still structure it so that you get the best of both worlds.

 

[msgkings322]

It wasn't necessarily intended as a Kerr bashing, only to illustrate that "tanking" is an organizational deal more so than players. Kerr was just an example. I could have used Mark Jackson when they tanked to get Harrison Barnes, but I'm using a more recent example.

The Kerr example is to point out the inefficiencies of tanking versus the upside of tanking. There is a reason why an organization would elect to do so. BUT to your point there is merit with trying to push your players to play their best. And I think that should ALWAYS be the case. But you can still structure it so that you get the best of both worlds.

What did you think of the article?

 

[CitySushi]

What did you think of the article?

I didn't want to address it here to take away from the tanking topic. I'll post my thoughts in the NBA general thread and tag you.

 

[logic]

Seriously, it's counter-productive. If your team is a lottery team, being 26th in the league is not much different than 24th. The odds no longer skew as much towards worse teams, and whatever skew you get isn't worth hoping your team is so bad that they don't win games.

Players don't tank. They are out there playing for their careers. You really want them to be so lacking in talent that they lose more than other teams? Even with your high draft pick those guys are still the rest of your team. You should root for your team to win and show that what they have is still some talent.

Just a quick rant. Fight me.

Really?! You think I should root for the Pistons to win? I'll take any infatesimal percentage of them getting a better lottery pick because there ain't a chance in hell they make even the expanded version of this year's playoffs. They only win by losing.

Sure, some players may build skills, but not enough in the season remaining to make up for even one place higher in the lottery. Better for them to move up and work hard in the offseason.

Lose Pistons Lose! (As if they need me cheering to do that)

 

[msgkings322]

Really?! You think I should root for the Pistons to win? I'll take any infatesimal percentage of them getting a better lottery pick because there ain't a chance in hell they make even the expanded version of this year's playoffs. They only win by losing.

Sure, some players may build skills, but not enough in the season remaining to make up for even one place higher in the lottery. Better for them to move up and work hard in the offseason.

Lose Pistons Lose! (As if they need me cheering to do that)

Yes, yours is the attitude I'm pushing back against. You're wrong.

 

[logic]

Yes, yours is the attitude I'm pushing back against. You're wrong.

You've got it wrong. I'm rooting for them to play hard and develop their talent. I just know that the team as currently built doesn't have enough to even catch a sniff of the playoff. So I root for the team to lose so the have a better chance to draft the next superstar, because that is what is required to win in this league. Sure, I root for my current guys get better to be a supporting cast for the hopeful superstar to come, but the draft is still stacked for the bottom teams, even though it is not as much as before.

 

[msgkings322]

You've got it wrong. I'm rooting for them to play hard and develop their talent. I just know that the team as currently built doesn't have enough to even catch a sniff of the playoff. So I root for the team to lose so the have a better chance to draft the next superstar, because that is what is required to win in this league. Sure, I root for my current guys get better to be a supporting cast for the hopeful superstar to come, but the draft is still stacked for the bottom teams, even though it is not as much as before.

I'm just saying, if your young players are developing and playing hard and have some talent, they might win a few more games than you like. And that's a good thing not a bad thing.

 

[logic]

I'm just saying, if your young players are developing and playing hard and have some talent, they might win a few more games than you like. And that's a good thing not a bad thing.

Well, with the Pistonds its an unlikely thing. Have you seen how bad this team is? No, because they are so bad they won't subject you to watching them. Their current best player came off the bench for a real team last year. Sure, they have some young guts I'd love to see develop and play better, but going from 28th to 24th cuts their draft odds in half (not that they could do it anyway). Sure, its not as big a difference as it used to be, but they need every draft edge they can get.

Plus, actually rooting for the Pistons to win would lead to far more frustration in my life.

 

[thunderc]

If the a thunder keep running the lineup out there they are now it doesn’t matter what I root for I guess.

 

[logic]

If the a thunder keep running the lineup out there they are now it doesn’t matter what I root for I guess.

True, even the Pistons couldn't lose to them

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Seriously, it's counter-productive. If your team is a lottery team, being 26th in the league is not much different than 24th. The odds no longer skew as much towards worse teams, and whatever skew you get isn't worth hoping your team is so bad that they don't win games.

Players don't tank. They are out there playing for their careers. You really want them to be so lacking in talent that they lose more than other teams? Even with your high draft pick those guys are still the rest of your team. You should root for your team to win and show that what they have is still some talent.

Just a quick rant. Fight me.

This is ironic coming from a Warriors fan, whose teams draft literally hinges on another team winning enough games to gurantee/greatly expand the odds that their seed falls.

While I could truthfully not really give a fuck about the Wolves. It is 100% in their best interest to literally not win another game this year.

 

[msgkings322]

This is ironic coming from a Warriors fan, whose teams draft literally hinges on another team winning enough games to gurantee/greatly expand the odds that their seed falls.

While I could truthfully not really give a fuck about the Wolves. It is 100% in their best interest to literally not win another game this year.

Missed my point, on at least two levels

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Missed my point, on at least two levels

The point failed to be properly delivered.

 

[The Q]

Seriously, it's counter-productive. If your team is a lottery team, being 26th in the league is not much different than 24th. The odds no longer skew as much towards worse teams, and whatever skew you get isn't worth hoping your team is so bad that they don't win games.

Players don't tank. They are out there playing for their careers. You really want them to be so lacking in talent that they lose more than other teams? Even with your high draft pick those guys are still the rest of your team. You should root for your team to win and show that what they have is still some talent.

Just a quick rant. Fight me.

I’m gonna lawyer up and just say, it depends.

I know it’s a different sport, but see the jets.

 

[msgkings322]

The point failed to be properly delivered.

Yes, that's something one would say after missing it.