Reds wanting Hunter Pence

[Ryanballa]

Im hoping Ludy can comeback and be great for us. But he has always been a slow starter.If Ludwick can start to hit the ball like he was last year then hell yea we dont need to even think about making a trade. But obviously we none no the future and its a big risk. Either way I think are Reds are gonna be fine though.

 

[Kate Upton]

Wow- Dont remeber EVER being high on Volquez- I accused him of BEING HIGH.

I believe Luddy's money went like this 2012- $3 mil, $2103- $9 mil.

He aint cheap anymore. ..not cheap enough to platoon, anyway.

I'd love Ludwick to repeat a good season, but hes 34 and has only repeated good seasons a couple of times.

I remember you saying at the time of the Latos deal, that he wasn't an upgrade over Volquez...

That we gave up too much and that Volquez was just as good as Latos based on his 2008 season.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Ludwick is Miguel Cabrera, but he is absolutely a significant upgrade over the pile of shit that we trot out there on a daily basis without him.

He brings a right handed power bat to the middle of the order (something we do not currently have) and his presence slots everybody else where they SHOULD be in the order.

Phillips had a nice run as a cleanup hitter, but it's clearly over. He's a .250 hitter for crissakes! I think you take him out of that role, and he'll perform in a way that's more suited to his ability.

 

[JohnU]

It would not be the 2000's Cincinnati Reds without 3 left fielders.
We'd done that since Adam Dunn left town and it's not likely to change next year either.

 

[Kate Upton]

It would not be the 2000's Cincinnati Reds without 3 left fielders.
We'd done that since Adam Dunn left town and it's not likely to change next year either.

Ludwick is our left fielder. We could do much worse, and currently do much worse.

It's like what they say in football...if you have 2 QB's, then you really have zero.

Like I said, Ludwick is our left fielder, and we could do much worse than him.

 

[JohnU]

A typical Heyman quote. (Knobler does the same thing, just doesn't pretend to be an insider.)

With Pence a free agent after the season, it's logical for him to go. "He's available," one rival GM said. "But they're not going to give him away."

Hell, I could make up this quote and write it into a blog that has nothing resembling any facts.
It's LOGICAL, Heyman says. How does he know this? Why, he finds a "rival GM" and quotes him. Why would this be the sort of stuff that would need to be anonymous? Because the "rival GM" is a phony quote.

 

[Kate Upton]

A typical Heyman quote. (Knobler does the same thing, just doesn't pretend to be an insider.)

With Pence a free agent after the season, it's logical for him to go. "He's available," one rival GM said. "But they're not going to give him away."

Hell, I could make up this quote and write it into a blog that has nothing resembling any facts.
It's LOGICAL, Heyman says. How does he know this? Why, he finds a "rival GM" and quotes him. Why would this be the sort of stuff that would need to be anonymous? Because the "rival GM" is a phony quote.

Translation: Heyman has a deadline to meet...he had to write something.

It worked. It got us talking about it.

 

[JohnU]

Translation: Heyman has a deadline to meet...he had to write something.

It worked. It got us talking about it.

That's the unique quality of the internet. We just tend to pass things along without researching ... and it's not just about these trade rumors. All of life has become a giant Facebook page ... never mind the facts, just share.

The difference in a trade rumor is that the folks who are inclined to most care about it are at least somewhat knowledgeable of the topic, unlike the Facebook furor over the pregnant immigrant mom in Billings who got slapped around by a guy in a Klan costume ... in front of the Obama-peeing-on-the-Constitution statue outside the Liberty Bell Baptist Church where 130 children were trapped inside a sweatshop because they didn't say "under God" at lunch.

 

[redsfan03]

This won't happen, nor should it.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I remember you saying at the time of the Latos deal, that he wasn't an upgrade over Volquez...

That we gave up too much and that Volquez was just as good as Latos based on his 2008 season.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Ludwick is Miguel Cabrera, but he is absolutely a significant upgrade over the pile of shit that we trot out there on a daily basis without him.

He brings a right handed power bat to the middle of the order (something we do not currently have) and his presence slots everybody else where they SHOULD be in the order.

Phillips had a nice run as a cleanup hitter, but it's clearly over. He's a .250 hitter for crissakes! I think you take him out of that role, and he'll perform in a way that's more suited to his ability.

I despised Volquez- I defended him once, at the time of the Hamilton trade, saying only that Hamilton was as a risk, and the Reds needed pitching...I understood the thought process/ risk assesment. I was NOT in favor of the Latos & Marshall traded only because I thought they could have been had for LESS than the Reds gave. I was more concerned that the Reds were giving up potential offense in Grandal, Alonzo, and threw in 2 pitchers as well- Volquez one of them. I was always concerned about trading a LHSP (Wood) to get a guy that wasn't good enough to start OR close for the Cubs, much less throw in 2 more guys and give Marshall a raise and an extension. Latos is a good addition- Volquez is a lazy ass turd.

Ludwick- again, paid too much. $12 mil is a lot for him. In 2013, he'll be paid what BP was making at the time he was extended. I think it's a stretch to expect to get that kind of value from Luddy, and worse, I don't think he had any better offers, meaning the Reds paid more than they would have had to.

Water under the bridge.

Choo has been a bigger plus than Ludwick over the entire season, the LF combo has done no worse than Stubbs, BP leads in RBI, Votto is hitting .320, and Jay Bruce has become a consistent extra vase monster. There is no delta with Cozart, Frazier has diss appointed offensively but there isn't much net difference if you factor Rolens negative offense last year. The catching has hit less. The pitching and defense are good... but the Reds are off their 97 win pace, even though the league isn't appreciably better. That's why I see this team as underperforming, not because a journeyman LF or even a SP is AWOL.

 

[Tubbs1518]

The problem with this team isn't just LF. Frazier can't hit worth a shit. Neither can Cozart. When you have 3 players in your lineup that aren't any good, that severely hampers an offense. Heisey at the 2 is stupid. I'd rather put Phillips at the 2, Bruce at the 4 and put Heisey at the 5. At least then when he strikes out it isn't in front of Votto.

As far as Ludwick, I think it's a HUGE stretch to think he is going to produce anything like last year. He has been hurt the entire first part of the season and probably won't be back in real playing mode for a few weeks after he comes back. I'd say late August, early September before he is really back to himself. That will be nice for a late September push, but will that be enough to jump to the top of our division? Doubtful.

 

[JohnU]

Not like anybody in the dugout noticed, but Jay Bruce has learned to hit lefthanders.
When he hits 4th, he's just as effective as any right-handed hitter on the team.
Now, Dusty evidently hasn't noticed that and has continued to Xerox the notion that a righty needs to bat behind Votto. Hell, Bruce has learned to hit cleanup.
Dusty doesn't read the stats, apparently.
I don't think Jerkoby can read, period. Got his training with Cleveland teams. What do we expect?

 

[WvuDieHard]

Love to have an extra right handed bat but Pence is carrying a heavy price. I think the reality of the situation is that there isn't anybody out there worth the price at this point. So you take your chances with what you have. Just learn to pitch better, play better defense, and manage better. All things I find hard to believe this club can do any better. I liken this season to being on a ocean in a raft with little drinking water or food and no land in sight. It is just a matter of time now.

 

[JohnU]

Reds could dump half the team and get Pence ... and still finish in 3rd place with 83-79 record.
So with that as a reality, hell ... just leave the guys out there we have. At least they don't have to find apartments in another city.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Hey... how many games will the Cubs and Brewers win ? They could have finished 3rd for $65 million, instead of $100 mil. Hell, the Rays make a playoff run every year on the Reds lunch money.

Lets not cut our guys short. They are in the wildcard race. Besides, you just need to make the playoffs, it's all luck after that, right ?

 

[JohnU]

Baseball is one of those bizarre hobbies that is separated from other sports by a long, tedious grind that, over 6 months, breaks your heart one day at a time. I suppose if I played on a team, I'd have a different perspective on all this. To some end, I just don't have the enthusiasm anymore to say I'm willing to wait till the end and -- at that point -- decide whether I've gotten my money's worth.

But I do plan to get a seat at Wrigley on the 14th ... so I've not given up on cheering. For me to go to Wrigley Field must mean something. I haven't been there in 32 years.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Baseball is a lot like life, except you don't get a clean slate every year in life. As the Cubs know, you don't always get one in baseball either. There's something about Wrigley. It looks like baseball, a century ago, if you can overlook the technology.

I still have an old family property on the Clinch River North of Norris Lake in Tennessee. I never lived there, but spent a lot of vacation fishing abd hunting trips with my father, and later with sons. It feels like home. It's absolutely beautiful- green mountains, red clay, clear cold water, clean air, fish, deer, turkey, and an occasional poisonous snake and bobcat. Wilderness, 15 minutes from civilization. The nearest neighbor is a 25 mph quarter mile drive away. If I live long enough, I dream about retiring there. You can always find people, but its hard for them to find you there. I dont cut timber there, I dont care what its worth in money. For me, baseball is kind of like that...it's part of what makes what we occupy most of our lives with bearable. Its an escape. Simple, pure, pastoral, yet passionate. Exhilarating and frustrating. Joy and heartbreak. It's a game best played by the young, better orchestrated, and preserved, by the old ones that can appreciate it's unspoiled value, its timeless music, classic art... at its best its a masterpiece. Unconditional love. Harmony. In life and baseball, too many careless people in a hurry usually spoil more than their ambition can ever progress. What we leave behind lasts longer than any mans legacy. I couldnt give a damn about the Cubs, but Wrigley is baseball. Thirty two or a hundred and thirty two years later.

 

[JohnU]

Can't recall the last team I saw there. Dodgers maybe, or the Padres. Wasn't much of a crowd in those days ... 1981 ... I think the strike ended it for me for a lot of years. I did see more games at old Comiskey in the late 70s ... have never been to Cellulite Field.

Last time I saw the Reds in Wrigley, it was this game.

August 11, 1976 Cincinnati Reds at Chicago Cubs Play by Play and Box Score - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[WvuDieHard]

JOHNU--I remember that game well. Freddie Norman was knocked out in the 2nd inning and the Reds trailed 9-0 and came back and won. Biggest comeback of the year(1976) and maybe in Reds Modern day Franchise history. Cubs were tough with Mad Dog Matlock and Rick Monday.

 

[JohnU]

In those days, the wind blew out at Wrigley a lot more, I think.
But they also only played day games and the hot air was different.
I recall an earlier Reds game there when the Reds won 18-11.
Used to be, 3 or 4 games a year at Wrigley, a football score would happen.
The famous 23-22 game that the Phils won was legendary.