Purgatory

[MHSL82]

Due to youth, injuries, etc. I feel that we are in purgatory. We are clearly not as good, injured and young, as New Orleans or Denver but not going to pass Phoenix in losses, unless we regress. Yes, I know we lost to Phoenix early in the season. They might turn it around but won't make the playoffs.

I'm saying this because I found myself rationalizing the loss to Miami as a good step in the right direction for draft picks because we are not going to make the playoffs, likely without help.

But that was wrong. Even losing all these games in the last 10 we are still ahead of Sacramento and the rest. Even beating teams like San Antonio, Cleveland, and Boston, we are behind the Clippers. I think we could surpass the Clippers and we could perhaps drop below Phoenix, even though I don't think we should.

I never advocate tanking. We don't need to. We lose enough games anyway. I like that we were trying and I was only OK with the Miami loss because we were trying. If for some reason we threw that game, I would be mad.

Just getting it off my chest. Like the U2 song, we are "Stuck in a Moment" that we can't get out of. Can't go up and won't go down and I don't want them to go down.

Just fair warning, if we end up making the playoffs, I'm deleting this thread. Just kidding. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[nuraman00]

Due to youth, injuries, etc. I feel that we are in purgatory. We are clearly not as good, injured and young, as New Orleans or Denver but not going to pass Phoenix in losses, unless we regress. Yes, I know we lost to Phoenix early in the season. They might turn it around but won't make the playoffs.

I'm saying this because I found myself rationalizing the loss to Miami as a good step in the right direction for draft picks because we are not going to make the playoffs, likely without help.

But that was wrong. Even losing all these games in the last 10 we are still ahead of Sacramento and the rest. Even beating teams like San Antonio, Cleveland, and Boston, we are behind the Clippers. I think we could surpass the Clippers and we could perhaps drop below Phoenix, even though I don't think we should.

I never advocate tanking. We don't need to. We lose enough games anyway. I like that we were trying and I was only OK with the Miami loss because we were trying. If for some reason we threw that game, I would be mad.

Just getting it off my chest. Like the U2 song, we are "Stuck in a Moment" that we can't get out of. Can't go up and won't go down and I don't want them to go down.

Just fair warning, if we end up making the playoffs, I'm deleting this thread. Just kidding. Maybe, maybe not.

LOL! And you can too.

 

[nuraman00]

This is where the GM has to make good trades, and sign good free agents.

You don't need great draft picks to improve. Teams mess up a lot during the early picks in the draft.

Golden State went from a low playoffs team, to a great team, by finding a 2nd round pick in Draymond Green. And signing Andre Iguodala.

The Spurs keep finding FAs and low draft picks to continue their winning.

Boston went from 40 wins in 2014-2015 to the # 1 seed 2 years later by trading for Isaiah Thomas and signing Al Horford.

Dennis Lindsey has to figure out what is needed, and find those players on good contracts that other teams are either under valuing, or can't afford to keep.

Or, he can trade some current players for mid round draft picks if there's players he's sure he likes and that they will declare this year.

Memphis started their turn around by drafting Conley Jr. and Gay and Marc Gasol. But they needed to sign Zach Randolph and trade for Tony Allen to get back to the playoffs, and start their 7 year streak of making the playoffs.

Golden State, Boston, and Memphis were in the same situation as the Jazz, at one point in the past 8 years.

All found ways to improve and make a conference finals.

 

[MHSL82]

This is where the GM has to make good trades, and sign good free agents.

You don't need great draft picks to improve. Teams mess up a lot during the early picks in the draft.

Golden State went from a low playoffs team, to a great team, by finding a 2nd round pick in Draymond Green. And signing Andre Iguodala.

The Spurs keep finding FAs and low draft picks to continue their winning.

Boston went from 40 wins in 2014-2015 to the # 1 seed 2 years later by trading for Isaiah Thomas and signing Al Horford.

Dennis Lindsey has to figure out what is needed, and find those players on good contracts that other teams are either under valuing, or can't afford to keep.

Or, he can trade some current players for mid round draft picks if there's players he's sure he likes and that they will declare this year.

Memphis started their turn around by drafting Conley Jr. and Gay and Marc Gasol. But they needed to sign Zach Randolph and trade for Tony Allen to get back to the playoffs, and start their 7 year streak of making the playoffs.

Golden State, Boston, and Memphis were in the same situation as the Jazz, at one point in the past 8 years.

All found ways to improve and make a conference finals.

Thanks. I have no real worry about next year. I'm not going to shout the magic words, but I do think we'll figure it out soon. But this year? Unless it's a good spell of health, a trade, or help from outside, we are who we are and I've never felt that. Even in the Corbin days. I felt we were a bad team getting experience for the next coach. Improving through osmosis. Now? We're improving, but unhealthy and I wanted that 8th or better seed.

 

[nuraman00]

Continuing on another trend, I really like reading your thoughts this season.

This is your most active season since 2012-2013. For the next 4 seasons after that, you were more sporadic.

And it wasn't as in depth as you're doing this season.

(Don't have time to resize that below).

 

[nuraman00]

Thanks. I have no real worry about next year. I'm not going to shout the magic words, but I do think we'll figure it out soon. But this year? Unless it's a good spell of health, a trade, or help from outside, we are who we are and I've never felt that. Even in the Corbin days. I felt we were a bad team getting experience for the next coach. Improving through osmosis. Now? We're improving, but unhealthy and I wanted that 8th or better seed.

What do you mean by "unhealthy"?

 

[MHSL82]

What do you mean by "unhealthy"?

Injuries. I know it's only one player, that I think isn't as big as I make it out to be, but yeah. I don't think it changes much in the scheme of win or not (I mean, we beat the Spurs without Mitchell or Gobert, Cavs without Gobert, Boston without Favors or Gobert, who's to say we don't lose WITH them?)

But if we are going to have this year to gel, figure out roles, etc., we want Gobert out there! But I know, other teams deal with it, too... but again, this isn't based on wins or not (that other teams have lost to us with their injuries).

 

[nuraman00]

Also, earlier I reduced the significance of the Jazz record during the 11 game stretch without Gobert, as I thought it was mostly because they were playing an easy schedule.

Going to the 12/15 game where he played 2 mins and got hurt, the Jazz record is 3-9 without him, while playing a harder schedule.

If you add that to the 7 - 4 record, it's 10-13 without him during these 23 games so far.

I don't know what the average margin of defeat is with and without him. I can probably just look at his +/- numbers and figure it out.

So far the Jazz are -4.6 for his differential.

Rudy Gobert 2017-18 On/Off | Basketball-Reference.com

Last year the Jazz were +11.3.
The year before, +4.9.

The year before that, +0.9.

Every year is different.

But I guess the point is the Jazz have been better each of the past 3 years with him.