politics thread

[gkekoa]

Does NAFTA produce enough funds? Probably, But that’s not what he said he was going to do. And the funds realized through NAFTA don’t directly flow into the Federal coffers. They help to offset the trade balance with companies doing business in Mexico.

It just upsets me that the guy promised that Mexico would pay for it knowing there is no way they would. So now you and I have to pay for it. What else has he misled us on?

Also, what guarantees does he offer that this solves the problem forever? If I have to pay for it, I want to know what I’m getting.

BTW, I agree the Federal workforce needs to be reduced. And serious spending cuts need to be implemented, and should have been with the change in the tax laws.

Did he say Mexico was going to write a check? If US companies now sell more goods to Mexico, or US goods are now sold more frequently here than before, wouldn’t that be Mexico paying for the wall through taxation?

How was he going to get Mexico to pay for the wall in the manner you believed? Is that actually misleading you or were you simply ignorant?

Can you name a politician who hasn’t lied about what he was going to do or misled us on how it would be done?

 

[skinsdad62]

Do I care if they write a check or not ? Chase your tale over foolishness if you want to . It’s a non issue .

 

[ehb5]

Does it matter? One thing this shut down has shown us is the federal government is bloated because it really hasn’t affected non-government workers, which tells me there are too many government workers.

From there, economically, I read the shutdown has already cost the economy more than the 5 billion Trump asked for. So why not fund the wall?

I always hear how little certain government programs cost the US taxpayer and how it is such a small percentage of the budget. Well, what is the difference with the wall? One big difference is the wall in tangible and will make a difference. It won’t stop illegal immigration, but it will slow it down and reduce it. You can’t really argue against this.

The solution is to fund the wall and reduce the federal workforce.

So this could be interesting I think. I'll agree I haven't felt the affects of the shutdown but that doesn't mean others haven't. And even if others haven't I have a feeling that's more an issue of time. If this went on for say 6 months I'm guessing there would be big problems.

That said I would agree the government is probably too bloated. I'm curious where you feel the government should cut back? We may actually have some common ground here lol.


As for costing the economy 5 billion already I'd be very curious to see who came up with that and how they got to that conclusion. And if it is true than doesn't that conflict with your initial point that the government shutdown isn't having meaningful impacts to not government workers.

I also don't think "well it's only a little money" is a good argument. For one, it's not. The complete wall will cost billions and billions. And it's a bad use of money. That's something any conservative should oppose. It's an expensive and sub optimal solution to a nonexistent problem.

 

[ehb5]

Ok, it seems as if this thread needs a jump start so, quick poll, who's responsible for the current government shutdown? What's the solution?

I'm gonna go with the guy who bragged about how he would shut down the government and he would proudly take the blame. Oh and who is threatening to declare a faux national emergency to solve a nonexistent problem.

Of course in the least surprising plot twist ever he is now blaming anybody but himself.

Honorable mention to Mitch McConnell though for refusing to take a vote that would show Trump is the only obstacle to reopening the government.

 

[ehb5]

How much money was made from redoing NAFTA? Would that not be Mexico paying for the wall?

Did you actually expect Mexico to cut us a literal check?

Without backing from Congress, it would be impossible to force Mexico to pay for the wall by shifting funding or taking funds away from Mexico.

1. How much money WAS made from redoing NAFTA into NAFTA with a different name? And how much was lost by the tarriffs?

2. That would not be Mexico paying for the wall. It's still coming out of US taxpayers pockets. And you and I both know that's just Trump backtracking because that was an absurd promise he can't keep.

3. To answer your question no of course we didn't think Mexico would cut us a literal check. But Trump thought that.

 

[ehb5]

Does NAFTA produce enough funds? Probably, But that’s not what he said he was going to do. And the funds realized through NAFTA don’t directly flow into the Federal coffers. They help to offset the trade balance with companies doing business in Mexico.

It just upsets me that the guy promised that Mexico would pay for it knowing there is no way they would. So now you and I have to pay for it. What else has he misled us on?

Also, what guarantees does he offer that this solves the problem forever? If I have to pay for it, I want to know what I’m getting.

BTW, I agree the Federal workforce needs to be reduced. And serious spending cuts need to be implemented, and should have been with the change in the tax laws.

Does NAFTA 2.0 produce enough? I honestly have no idea. But it's essentially the same deal as NAFTA 1.0 and you have to weight the costs of the tarriffs as well.

As for what Trump has misled us on? The answer is everything. Hes a conman and a liar. I say that with as little vitriol as possible. I think that's just the objective truth at this point and it isn't a new development based on his entry into politics. His entire career has been like this and it wasn't a secret. You cannot trust a word out of his mouth.

 

[j_y19]

Did he say Mexico was going to write a check? If US companies now sell more goods to Mexico, or US goods are now sold more frequently here than before, wouldn’t that be Mexico paying for the wall through taxation?

How was he going to get Mexico to pay for the wall in the manner you believed? Is that actually misleading you or were you simply ignorant?

Can you name a politician who hasn’t lied about what he was going to do or misled us on how it would be done?

Ok. So now we play semantics. Then insults. Par for the course from this administration and it’s supporters.

 

[gkekoa]

Ok. So now we play semantics. Then insults. Par for the course from this administration and it’s supporters.

Actually, I wasn’t insulting you. Ignorance is not an insult.

 

[gkekoa]

So this could be interesting I think. I'll agree I haven't felt the affects of the shutdown but that doesn't mean others haven't. And even if others haven't I have a feeling that's more an issue of time. If this went on for say 6 months I'm guessing there would be big problems.

That said I would agree the government is probably too bloated. I'm curious where you feel the government should cut back? We may actually have some common ground here lol.


As for costing the economy 5 billion already I'd be very curious to see who came up with that and how they got to that conclusion. And if it is true than doesn't that conflict with your initial point that the government shutdown isn't having meaningful impacts to not government workers.

I also don't think "well it's only a little money" is a good argument. For one, it's not. The complete wall will cost billions and billions. And it's a bad use of money. That's something any conservative should oppose. It's an expensive and sub optimal solution to a nonexistent problem.

Show me 5he issue where we are depriving the US taxpayer of something the government should be providing.

I think the government should cut back everywhere...quite literally.

It doesn’t really go against anything I have said because where does the government do business with the little guy?

In Two Weeks the Costs of the Shutdown Will Exceed the Cost of Trump's Wall

Are you suggesting illegal immigration is not a problem? Reagan made a deal in the early 80s and a lot of illegals got to stay, millions. Now we have millions more illegals in this country. A wall is a physical barrier and everybody with half a brain knows it will at least slow illegal immigration. From there, it funnels where illegal immigration will have to take place, a choke point. So now we have to police a smaller area.

 

[gkekoa]

I'm gonna go with the guy who bragged about how he would shut down the government and he would proudly take the blame. Oh and who is threatening to declare a faux national emergency to solve a nonexistent problem.

Of course in the least surprising plot twist ever he is now blaming anybody but himself.

Honorable mention to Mitch McConnell though for refusing to take a vote that would show Trump is the only obstacle to reopening the government.

Except it isn’t a non-existent problem. Those who work the border have stated it is an issue. The millions of people in this country illegally today proves it is a problem.

 

[gkekoa]

1. How much money WAS made from redoing NAFTA into NAFTA with a different name? And how much was lost by the tarriffs?

2. That would not be Mexico paying for the wall. It's still coming out of US taxpayers pockets. And you and I both know that's just Trump backtracking because that was an absurd promise he can't keep.

3. To answer your question no of course we didn't think Mexico would cut us a literal check. But Trump thought that.

Long term...no money lost.

See number one.

No he didn’t.

 

[Stymietee]

Ain't I family??

Well, of course you are but the limitation is blood/DNA. So, unless this guy says different...

 

[gkekoa]

Does NAFTA 2.0 produce enough? I honestly have no idea. But it's essentially the same deal as NAFTA 1.0 and you have to weight the costs of the tarriffs as well.

As for what Trump has misled us on? The answer is everything. Hes a conman and a liar. I say that with as little vitriol as possible. I think that's just the objective truth at this point and it isn't a new development based on his entry into politics. His entire career has been like this and it wasn't a secret. You cannot trust a word out of his mouth.

Except even VOX admits it is different.

USMCA, Trump’s new NAFTA deal, explained in 500 words

You can’t trust a word out of any politician’s mouth.

Obama...you can keep your insurance and it will cost less....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.

 

[Stymietee]

Does it matter? One thing this shut down has shown us is the federal government is bloated because it really hasn’t affected non-government workers, which tells me there are too many government workers.

From there, economically, I read the shutdown has already cost the economy more than the 5 billion Trump asked for. So why not fund the wall?

I always hear how little certain government programs cost the US taxpayer and how it is such a small percentage of the budget. Well, what is the difference with the wall? One big difference is the wall in tangible and will make a difference. It won’t stop illegal immigration, but it will slow it down and reduce it. You can’t really argue against this.

The solution is to fund the wall and reduce the federal workforce.

Except I can argue against this. The current number of "illegal" immigrants crossing the border right now is a net zero (those coming in vs those returning) so what's there to slow down?

Next, is it really your reasoning that the cost of the shutdown has already exceeded what the wall would cost so we should waste 5 billion more taxpayer dollars building a monument to stupidity?

BTW: why stop there, let's do away with all of the make work programs in every state funded by federal dollars. Let's see we can begin with these people,
The top 9 biggest defense contractors in America ...
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-9-biggest-defense...

Then there's the whole, "who's going to pay for it?" {"MEXICO!!!"}

Finally, there's this little thing called the existing wall and fencing that doesn't need to be replaced already there.

 

[Stymietee]

How much money was made from redoing NAFTA? Would that not be Mexico paying for the wall?

Did you actually expect Mexico to cut us a literal check?

Without backing from Congress, it would be impossible to force Mexico to pay for the wall by shifting funding or taking funds away from Mexico.

There was no money saved on the new NAFTA deal...period! In fact, the deal is really a rewording of the original deal accompanied by another BS sales job to the gullible, but yeah, let's go with using that as a fact. Show evidence that there's any thing different in the new deal that in any way provides for or creates a pathway that allows funding for a wall. (BTW: I already know that it doesn't exist)

 

[Stymietee]

Ahhhhh, the politics thread!! The give, the take, the disagreement, I'm lovin' it and, we're baaaacck! Just needed a jump start!

 

[Stymietee]

If there's anyone here who actually believes that a wall can stop anyone from coming into the country, then I can believe that this can be a real way to get through that wall.

 

[gkekoa]

If there's anyone here who actually believes that a wall can stop anyone from coming into the country, then I can believe that this can be a real way to get through that wall.

Why do walls exist then?

 

[gkekoa]

There was no money saved on the new NAFTA deal...period! In fact, the deal is really a rewording of the original deal accompanied by another BS sales job to the gullible, but yeah, let's go with using that as a fact. Show evidence that there's any thing different in the new deal that in any way provides for or creates a pathway that allows funding for a wall. (BTW: I already know that it doesn't exist)

I have already posted key differences and that is from VOX...far left propaganda.

 

[Stymietee]

Why do walls exist then?

In truth, they serve more to keep people in than to keep them out.