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No rebuild- PC and Jody Allen

JMR

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Dunlap is yet another on the enigma list. Disappears most of the year only to kick butt down the stretch. But I can't see moving on from him next year because there would be a $5.6 million dead money cap hit. It would probably be better just to play out the contract.
Yeah, odd season for Dunlap. He was used sparingly the first half of it, which may have helped him be more effective down the stretch....but what good did it do us? The season was effectively over by the time he started making a real impact. In '22 it'll cost $6.5M to have him on the roster and $900k less if we cut him, so it seems like he'll probably be here.
 

blstoker

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Yeah, odd season for Dunlap. He was used sparingly the first half of it, which may have helped him be more effective down the stretch....but what good did it do us? The season was effectively over by the time he started making a real impact. In '22 it'll cost $6.5M to have him on the roster and $900k less if we cut him, so it seems like he'll probably be here.

Yeah, even with the late season being when he was effective, its hard to imaging getting a better pass rusher for less than $6.5 million - let alone the $900,000 we would get back by cutting him.
 

uwdawgfan

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We won't have a lot of cap space to sign our own players, doubtful we go out and make any big FA signings.
Nope....we fucked. All we can hope is the players we keep start earning their money.
 

Podunkparte

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Does it really matter if we replace Norton with some other DC? It's still Pete's defense. It hasn't really changed whether we had Guy, Dan, Kris or Ken as DC. Just the players on the field has changed.

It's going to be the same next year whether we have Norton or not. The only real difference will be that Dunlap will be a year older and maybe not on the team.

People say this all the time and I don't think it's as true as you make it out to be.

You're telling me you haven't seen any changes besides personnel on the defense from even 2020 to 2021? How about the use of Adams, just for one easy example?

Even if it is Pete's defense, it's been good, great, and historically great with guys other than Ken Norton Jr. With Ken? Bad, bad, and worse. Coincidentally, his defenses in Oakland were also atrocious. What's the easiest explanation there?

Pete being a defensive guy doesn't mean his coordinators don't have a major influence on the team. "It won't work so we shouldn't change it" is not a good argument when something obviously has worked in the past.
 

flyerhawk

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People say this all the time and I don't think it's as true as you make it out to be.

You're telling me you haven't seen any changes besides personnel on the defense from even 2020 to 2021? How about the use of Adams, just for one easy example?

Even if it is Pete's defense, it's been good, great, and historically great with guys other than Ken Norton Jr. With Ken? Bad, bad, and worse. Coincidentally, his defenses in Oakland were also atrocious. What's the easiest explanation there?

Pete being a defensive guy doesn't mean his coordinators don't have a major influence on the team. "It won't work so we shouldn't change it" is not a good argument when something obviously has worked in the past.


The decline in defensive quality started with Kris Richard. And it was directly tied to losing all of the guys from the great defensive teams.
 

Podunkparte

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The decline in defensive quality started with Kris Richard. And it was directly tied to losing all of the guys from the great defensive teams.

There's declination in quality from Hall of Famers and there's historic ineptitude. We've seen the latter the last 2 years. Veteran pro football players don't just forget how to play the game. They're failing because of how they're being used. I just disagree that all of that falls on Pete's shoulders.
 

flyerhawk

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There's declination in quality from Hall of Famers and there's historic ineptitude. We've seen the latter the last 2 years. Veteran pro football players don't just forget how to play the game. They're failing because of how they're being used. I just disagree that all of that falls on Pete's shoulders.

By all accounts, Ken isn't really the Xs and Os guy. He's the discipline and motivation guy. I think he's even joked about he doesn't really focus on that stuff.

To be clear, I'm fine with getting rid of Norton. I just don't think we are going to see much difference on D if that is the only change.
 

HaroldSeattle

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The decline in defensive quality started with Kris Richard. And it was directly tied to losing all of the guys from the great defensive teams.
Yes losing star players and replacing them with marginal players will have poor results. I often hear it said Pete defensive system requires great players, but I dispute that, I feel it requires solid players as any system does. The thing is for to long the Seahawks haven’t restocked the roster adequatel. Some of that is due to having to sign key players to record setting contracts ( Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner are the latest but Sherman and Thomas are examples that aren’t so recent) poor draft position, years where certain positions are lacking in the draft ( good offense linemen seem hard to find in drafts and usually are off the board by the time the Seahawks pick is up). Getting away from accumulating picks was a mistake and needs to be fixed, but that can’t be done quickly.
I’m don’t see how a major turnaround can happen short term, but it is possible,,,,,maybe..to compete as a fringe play off team next year and then aim to getting back to restocking afterwards.
 

flyerhawk

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Yes losing star players and replacing them with marginal players will have poor results. I often hear it said Pete defensive system requires great players, but I dispute that, I feel it requires solid players as any system does. The thing is for to long the Seahawks haven’t restocked the roster adequatel. Some of that is due to having to sign key players to record setting contracts ( Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner are the latest but Sherman and Thomas are examples that aren’t so recent) poor draft position, years where certain positions are lacking in the draft ( good offense linemen seem hard to find in drafts and usually are off the board by the time the Seahawks pick is up). Getting away from accumulating picks was a mistake and needs to be fixed, but that can’t be done quickly.
I’m don’t see how a major turnaround can happen short term, but it is possible,,,,,maybe..to compete as a fringe play off team next year and then aim to getting back to restocking afterwards.

The problem with Pete's system is that is a vanilla system that relies on great execution by the players. If any player fails to execute properly, the opposing offense will exploit that and attack those weaknesses. The complete lack of subterfuge is both its best feature and biggest weakness.

I think this team will absolutely be in the playoffs again next year and would have been in the playoffs this year had Russ not got hurt.

Now I do think that for this team to get back to a Super Bowl, we need to be less inconsistent. We lost too many games because we only show up for 1 half of football. IMO, that is about the coaches.
 

HaroldSeattle

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The problem with Pete's system is that is a vanilla system that relies on great execution by the players. If any player fails to execute properly, the opposing offense will exploit that and attack those weaknesses. The complete lack of subterfuge is both its best feature and biggest weakness.

I think this team will absolutely be in the playoffs again next year and would have been in the playoffs this year had Russ not got hurt.

Now I do think that for this team to get back to a Super Bowl, we need to be less inconsistent. We lost too many games because we only show up for 1 half of football. IMO, that is about the coaches.
Execution is every thing for both offense and defense.....for any team. Keeping it basic actually lends itself to good execution and the biggest hindrance is lack of continuity with the roster ( which leads to slow starts and then improvement as the season progresses) and injuries. I'm a believer in Pete's system but need to get back to their roots of being a good run team ( which will help the defense) and restocking through the draft which will lend itself to some much needed continuity as the players are likely to remain on the roster longer then a year of two unlike the present roster with 30 FA. As of late churning the market for cheap FA as been SOP and that a losing end game more often then not.
 

flyerhawk

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Execution is every thing for both offense and defense.....for any team. Keeping it basic actually lends itself to good execution and the biggest hindrance is lack of continuity with the roster ( which leads to slow starts and then improvement as the season progresses) and injuries. I'm a believer in Pete's system but need to get back to their roots of being a good run team ( which will help the defense) and restocking through the draft which will lend itself to some much needed continuity as the players are likely to remain on the roster longer then a year of two unlike the present roster with 30 FA. As of late churning the market for cheap FA as been SOP and that a losing end game more often then not.

Being a good run team requires a good defense. Otherwise you never have a chance to establish the run.
 

HaroldSeattle

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Being a good run team requires a good defense. Otherwise you never have a chance to establish the run.
Well sure if you fall behind by enough your going to be forced to pass, at least until you catch up or get within one score. Still games begin 0-0 and with a good run game you can control TOP ( thus helping the defense) and it also helps the passing offense if the DL has to respect the run. A good run game is a blessing in a lot of ways.
 

flyerhawk

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Well sure if you fall behind by enough your going to be forced to pass, at least until you catch up or get within one score. Still games begin 0-0 and with a good run game you can control TOP ( thus helping the defense) and it also helps the passing offense if the DL has to respect the run. A good run game is a blessing in a lot of ways.

Or if your defense gives up a ton of yards and plays but doesn't give up a ton of points, it keeps your offense off the field.

A good run game needs to be able to soften the defense. You can't have 2 three and outs and one semi-effective drive in the first half and hope to establish the run. And that's what happens when the other team is able to sustain 2 or 3 12-15 play drives that eat up 7 or 8 minutes each.

Yes, if we can get 170 yards rushing the ball every game, that is ideal. EVERY team wants that. But you have to have a plan when the running game is being bottled up. And I don't feel like we ever do.
 

HaroldSeattle

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Or if your defense gives up a ton of yards and plays but doesn't give up a ton of points, it keeps your offense off the field.

A good run game needs to be able to soften the defense. You can't have 2 three and outs and one semi-effective drive in the first half and hope to establish the run. And that's what happens when the other team is able to sustain 2 or 3 12-15 play drives that eat up 7 or 8 minutes each.

Yes, if we can get 170 yards rushing the ball every game, that is ideal. EVERY team wants that. But you have to have a plan when the running game is being bottled up. And I don't feel like we ever do.
If the Seahawks have a healthy starting RB, Lynch-Rawls-Prosise-Carson or Penny the Seahawks can move the chains just fine. Obviously if the run game is getting shut down a plan is needed. Hitting short and intermediate passes can be used in place of a run game. In the 2 minute drill that is exactly how they move the ball and last game they used it also (with a throw or two long). Would love to see them continue that instead of constantly trying to hit the long ball every series even with double coverage. I know some blame Pete for that ( constantly throwing long), but Pete is not a imbecile, of course he doesn't want his QB throwing into double coverage consistently. I'm convinced that is on Russell Wilson who is over confident of his WRs and his arm, but we could argue until we are blue in the face about that. I'm hoping what we saw last game is what we'll see next season. As for the defense....going to take some luck with FAs and the draft because they need better quality players then they had had of late although I do like some of the young guys they have( Brooks, Taylor to name a couple).
 

Screamin12th

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Seattle has the 6th most cap space, Don't let others fool you and say "well we have to sign our players". Every team has to sign their own players and Seattle has the 6th most room to do so out of 32 teams. Also Expect that cap space to grow by 20 million. $52,900,000+$20,000,000= $72,900,000 this makes them #1 in Cap space.

They can be players in Free agency but don't expect star signings. Go for those second tier players a OLineman or 2 and a DE. Snatch a CB or two. these players will be around 2-5 mill a year players as some will be on Prove it deals. Then go BPA in need positions in the draft. If done right this team can and will be competitive in 2022.
 

flyerhawk

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The big challenge is LT. Brown could maybe stay another year but we need to find a replacement for him as he's not going to last that much longer.
 

Screamin12th

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One move I would make is signing Britt back for less than 3 million. He played for less last year. ( $2,4 mill ) He is the 11th ranked Center for the 2021 season Fuller is 32nd and Procic was 35th. We all have seen what a beast this man is in run blocking and he rarely gets over powered. Hawks Paid him 8m a year for 3 years which I agree is to much but if they can snag him for $3mill I am all for it even for 4m I am all for it, the only reason the Hawks let him walk was because they couldn't afford 8 mill a year for a center when their QB is making 35m a year ( his cap hit is 37m this year, 40m in 23 ). Now you need a tackle but Jones has not looked bad and the rookie what was his name? he looked like a keeper. He had a block this season that had me rolling as he drove his man 15+ yard down the field lmao! And it wasn't a CB he was blocking, it was a DE. Had the guy on skates and they couldn't stop it. I would bring one of those other guys back for minimum as back up, ( *Fuller/Procic ) as they both can play guard also.

this is what I mean by 2nd tier signings, Not the bottom of the barrel FA that are still left in Late April. This was the area they have been raiding ( bottom of the barrel ) the past 3-4 seasons. Has it been even longer? The Hawks will be losing some mid level priced players that didn't play up to even that contract so this is a good thing. 14 spots to fill on the roster and many if not most are back-up spots.
 

Screamin12th

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The big challenge is LT. Brown could maybe stay another year but we need to find a replacement for him as he's not going to last that much longer.

Oh man he was so burnt out this year, I don't think he lasts another season. I was watching him get beat so much and even Wilson was shocked because he never had to worry about that side and this year they got em. I don't think he has another year left in him unless he was playing through a pretty bad injury that they did not tell anyone about? They do that a lot with lineman so I wouldn't be shocked.
 

returnofjakedog

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Nope....we fucked. All we can hope is the players we keep start earning their money.
So far I've heard estimates from $52 up to $73 million in cap space. We have plenty of FAs but we should be in ok shape regardless.
 

jerseyhawksfan79

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Seattle has the 6th most cap space, Don't let others fool you and say "well we have to sign our players". Every team has to sign their own players and Seattle has the 6th most room to do so out of 32 teams. Also Expect that cap space to grow by 20 million. $52,900,000+$20,000,000= $72,900,000 this makes them #1 in Cap space.

They can be players in Free agency but don't expect star signings. Go for those second tier players a OLineman or 2 and a DE. Snatch a CB or two. these players will be around 2-5 mill a year players as some will be on Prove it deals. Then go BPA in need positions in the draft. If done right this team can and will be competitive in 2022.
If they can make one big splash on D-line or O-line I'll take that and agree with the second tier guys.
 
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