looking ahead......

[scotsman1948]

No CJ pretty much went from a 1 inning at a time reliever and part time closer to starter

okay i thought they used him in set-up/middle type where he used all of his pitches and proved that he could throw them consistently

 

[Windingmywatch]

He made his final decision after the Rangers themselves had decided to put him back at closer, and then only after he got hurt and decided to blame it on starting in ST

He never opted to go to the bullpen, the Rangers put him there

Whatever ... I don't remember it that way ... but it is immaterial. TEX isn't offering him another starting gig shot until he comes and begs for it like CJ did.

 

[jta4437]

Whatever ... I don't remember it that way ... but it is immaterial. TEX isn't offering him another starting gig shot until he comes and begs for it like CJ did.

I think he'll come around once he realizes erratic yet potentially dominant starters earn WAY more than closer with the same qualities

 

[scotsman1948]

I'm just like you. I don't know a g.d. thing about the guy. Nothing

My issue is that you go on and on about it, but know nothing about MLB pitching. Hell, it wasn't a month ago you were ready to open the check book to CJ Wilson...beat any offer by a million dollars. Now it's Feliz isn't a starter, Darren Oliver is washed up and let's give 100 million to the flavor of the month who has never thrown a pitch on US soil... because you read something that said he graded out high. Whatever that means.

and a month ago, CJ was the #1 free agent pitcher and you've written him off totally based on his post-season and blew off what he did for us in the regular season. MLB teams are going to look at everything and they're going to still grade him out as 1 of the top free agent pitchers. i didn't say Feliz couldn't be a starter i said that we needed to work him in a role that allows him to become more comfortable with his pitching package before we put him in the starting rotation but you would throw him into the rotation and let him sink or swim. as far as Darvish is concerned, i've responded to a couple of posts. and how do you grade someone who hasn't thrown in this country? you listen to scouts and go with their inputs it's not my opinion it's theirs.

 

[jta4437]

and a month ago, CJ was the #1 free agent pitcher and you've written him off totally based on his post-season and blew off what he did for us in the regular season. MLB teams are going to look at everything and they're going to still grade him out as 1 of the top free agent pitchers. i didn't say Feliz couldn't be a starter i said that we needed to work him in a role that allows him to become more comfortable with his pitching package before we put him in the starting rotation but you would throw him into the rotation and let him sink or swim. as far as Darvish is concerned, i've responded to a couple of posts. and how do you grade someone who hasn't thrown in this country? you listen to scouts and go with their inputs it's not my opinion it's theirs.

Seemed to work with Wilson, Lewis, Holland, Harrison, and Ogando.... too bad none of those guys start for us anymore... wait

 

[Windingmywatch]

a half a dozen teams including the Rangers, Yankees, Nationals don't agree with you. they are all expected to bid between 40-50M just have the opportunity to sign him so i don't think they spend that kind of money to sign him to a 1 year minimum contract

According to who ... "don't agree with me"? Management reps from those teams? ... or talking head media types who need to pump up a story for the offseason?

Of course teams will say they are looking at him because want to be viewed as being engaged in an effort that in the fans eyes (and their own roster) might improve their teams.

Teams play the game of playing the bidding game because if you aren't at the table then you aren't able to affect the game ... or see what the market is doing. If you aren't even at the table then you can't even bluff that you aren't really bidding. But if you are at the table this time ... and the next time ... and the next time ... then you will always be considered a potential player. If you only show up one time to play ... then you are quickly taken to the cleaners.

I don't doubt that those teams with $168mil salary or higher ... stuffed with players who didn't get them to the post season or past the first round ... will ante up to give it one more go.

It is sorta like our Energy Department throwing money at one company after the other that fails ... yet spends our money.

There is no reason to believe that Darvish will be any more of a ML success than three or four other TEX prosects already on the roster ... or in the system.

If TEX blows that money on Darvish ... on just a maybe ... then how much do they have to negotiate deals for Napoli, Cruz, Hamilton, Kinsler or Andrus?

 

[scotsman1948]

According to who ... "don't agree with me"? Management reps from those teams? ... or talking head media types who need to pump up a story for the offseason?

Of course teams will say they are looking at him because want to be viewed as being engaged in an effort that in the fans eyes (and their own roster) might improve their teams.

Teams play the game of playing the bidding game because if you aren't at the table then you aren't able to affect the game ... or see what the market is doing. If you aren't even at the table then you can't even bluff that you aren't really bidding. But if you are at the table this time ... and the next time ... and the next time ... then you will always be considered a potential player. If you only show up one time to play ... then you are quickly taken to the cleaners.

I don't doubt that those teams with $168mil salary or higher ... stuffed with players who didn't get them to the post season or past the first round ... will ante up to give it one more go.

It is sorta like our Energy Department throwing money at one company after the other that fails ... yet spends our money.

There is no reason to believe that Darvish will be any more of a ML success than three or four other TEX prosects already on the roster ... or in the system.

If TEX blows that money on Darvish ... on just a maybe ... then how much do they have to negotiate deals for Napoli, Cruz, Hamilton, Kinsler or Andrus?

okay, i'm done with this. let's just wait and see who gets involved in the sweepstakes if there's one.

 

[Windingmywatch]

okay, i'm done with this. let's just wait and see who gets involved in the sweepstakes if there's one.

Good idea. In my opinion ... throwing $50MM on a posting fee ... and then another $50MM for a 6-year program on an unproven pitcher doesn't win pennants ... it handcuffs what you can do to meet the contract needs of the 5 or 6 critical guys who are already on your World Series roster. Money only grows on trees for the President ... not the Texas Rangers.

Let's just wait and see.

 

[scotsman1948]

Good idea. In my opinion ... throwing $50MM on a posting fee ... and then another $50MM for a 6-year program on an unproven pitcher doesn't win pennants ... it handcuffs what you can do to meet the contract needs of the 5 or 6 critical guys who are already on your World Series roster. Money only grows on trees for the President ... not the Texas Rangers.

Let's just wait and see.

it will be interesting.

 

[kennyt12]

Good idea. In my opinion ... throwing $50MM on a posting fee ... and then another $50MM for a 6-year program on an unproven pitcher doesn't win pennants ... it handcuffs what you can do to meet the contract needs of the 5 or 6 critical guys who are already on your World Series roster. Money only grows on trees for the President ... not the Texas Rangers.

Let's just wait and see.

It all depends on how the team views the 50mil posting fee. If ownership views the 50mil as an investment and doesn't count it against future payroll then what does it matter? Yes they could put it towards something else or they could just pocket it. Regardless, if management views it as a good investment then I'm all for it.

 

[romeo212000]

Seemed to work with Wilson, Lewis, Holland, Harrison, and Ogando.... too bad none of those guys start for us anymore... wait

Ogando is still unproven as a starter until he shows he has developed at least one more pitch and can pitch to the hitters now that they have adjusted to him. Holland and Harrison were brought up as starters. Hardly apples to apples comparisons.

 

[jta4437]

Ogando is still unproven as a starter until he shows he has developed at least one more pitch and can pitch to the hitters now that they have adjusted to him. Holland and Harrison were brought up as starters. Hardly apples to apples comparisons.

All were unproven when thrown into the rotation to start the year and have had quite a bit of success the last 2 years as starters

Holland and Harrison pitched quite a bit out of the bullpen in the last 2 years

Feliz was a starter almost exclusively until right before his call-up to the Rangers

 

[scotsman1948]

All were unproven when thrown into the rotation to start the year and have had quite a bit of success the last 2 years as starters

Holland and Harrison pitched quite a bit out of the bullpen in the last 2 years

Feliz was a starter almost exclusively until right before his call-up to the Rangers

i'll give you this year on Holland & Harrison but in 2010 they started a total of 16 games with a 6-6 combined record. in 2009 they stared 32 games combined with a 12-18 combined record. it's taken 2 years for them to reach the level of skill they're at now. now if them, Ogando & a CJ-level starter are at the top of our rotation then we could afford to bring up Feliz as the 5th starter. we might see a drop -off from the 96-win season to around 90-wins because of adding a raw starter and the usual sophomore drop-off that could effect Ogando but if the Rangers and the fans are willing to accept the possibility of that and maybe missing the playoffs for a season or 2 it might be worth the effort

 

[Windingmywatch]

I dont get it, you have the courage to throw 100 million+ at Darvish but not to allow a guy proven at the ML level

I get the feeling you just want to spend money for the sake of doing so

did i say i personally want to spend 100M?QUOTE]

Now I'm sure ... Scotty is a Democrat. He sees nothing wrong with spending other people's money on flyers like Yu Darvish and Solendryn.

 

[scotsman1948]

did i say i personally want to spend 100M?QUOTE]

Now I'm sure ... Scotty is a Democrat. He sees nothing wrong with spending other people's money on flyers like Yu Darvish and Solendryn.

god, some of you guys are getting ridiculous. excuse me for talking about "rumors" that involve the Rangers. it looks to me like the Rangers are interested in him and they have been in conversations involving him for months. looking at all videos and everything on him i can see why the Rangers and a lot of other teams are so interested in him and think it's not a "taking a flyer" as you put it. the question is not in my court it's in the Rangers court.

personally, if they go after him and get him, i'll say yippee and move on and if they don't get him and go some other route, i'll say yippee and move on. it's their money and they can spend however they feel

 

[romeo212000]

god, some of you guys are getting ridiculous. excuse me for talking about "rumors" that involve the Rangers. it looks to me like the Rangers are interested in him and they have been in conversations involving him for months. looking at all videos and everything on him i can see why the Rangers and a lot of other teams are so interested in him and think it's not a "taking a flyer" as you put it. the question is not in my court it's in the Rangers court.

personally, if they go after him and get him, i'll say yippee and move on and if they don't get him and go some other route, i'll say yippee and move on. it's their money and they can spend however they feel

True. The Rangers management and ownership has done an outstanding job with this team in a short amount of time. No reason not to trust whichever direction they decide to go at this point.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Unless our prospects win 75 games with an era of 2.1 and his repertoire of pitches before the age of 25, I think it's safe to say there IS reason to believe they won't be as good as Yu.

 

[jta4437]

Unless our prospects win 75 games with an era of 2.1 and his repertoire of pitches before the age of 25, I think it's safe to say there IS reason to believe they won't be as good as Yu.

Japanese League does not equal the Major Leagues

 

[guitarmy21b]

Japanese League does not equal the Major Leagues

When did I say it did?

 

[romeo212000]

When did I say it did?

You're taking his Japanese numbers and stating our young pitchers would have to match them in MLB. The comparison is implicit in your statement.