Is Ed Snider Turning Into The Bill Wirtz Of The Flyers?

[Cobiemonster]

I can't help but think Ed Snider is hindering, not helping this team - he's turning it into a firestorm

He needs to get out of Hexy's way and let him do what he needs to do to be successful or Eddie boy won't get to see another cup again

 

[flyersfan4706]

That's really stretching it. The only thing Snider is guilty of is caring too much. We can still be a good team while rebuilding. I advocate the tank, but Hextall's main goal is to stay patient and draft players while not signing terrible contracts. If we can make the playoffs next year while keeping our picks both parties will be happy.

I'm guessing this thread is made in response the Snider saying he thinks we can compete. What else is he going to say? At the end of the day he isn't the GM regardless of what fans want to believe

 

[wbon22]

I do agree that Snider is his own worst enemy...I think that one thing we have seen is that this team can compete when they show up. With the right coach/motivation and some tweeks to the lineup it could compete on a very high level. Where Snider's statement is worrisome is that it sounds like his is about to dip his oar into the hockey decision making ... and that has lead to such decisions as bring in Bryzgalov, firing Hitchcock, and making Richards the captain when he simply wasn't prepared for the job. Snider means well, but his impatience is his biggest undoing.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Remember guys, ignorance is not an excuse

Just because he cares deeply doesn't mean you can't keep doing the same stupid shit time after time and think you're going to get a better result after it hasn't worked the first million times - he hasn't learned from his mistakes and he thinks he knows it all

The only advantage of him over Bill Wirtz is that he's not cheap - but that doesn't mean he needs to spend just to spend - the owners should quit getting involved in all of the hockey decisions and let the GM be the GM - how often do you hear of the owner trying to step in with the Kings? You rarely hear his name because he lets Dean Lombardi do his job - the owner needs to provide the GM the resources(money for sure) and then get out of the way - you can't have two cooks in the kitchen or have someone blabbering over the cook telling them to put this and put that into the mix - not enough room for that in this day of age

Plenty of owners in the NHL care(look at Jeff Vinik in Tampa, he's done wonders for that team but he doesn't get in Stevie Y's way, similar situation with a former player turned GM) - Ed needs to get in line with the rest of them who care AND are smart

 

[wbon22]

Whenever you think about Ed Snider, and the lengths to which he will go to get his way, don't forget that he fired his son. For better or worse.

I don't think Ed will ever be a silent owner, but he will be or can be a patiently supportive one IF he thinks he is being heard and that the person making the hockey calls knows what he is doing.

 

[flyersfan4706]

What stupid mistakes has Snider made? Letting the Flyers spend? People are quick to forget that the Flyers have been in a dry spell for a whopping two years. Other than this drought and 06-07, we've been good/great since the lockout.

The claim that Snider is too hands on has always been pretty unfounded. Let him voice his opinions all he wants, they have about as much impact as the rest of ours do.

 

[awaz]

I really like Ed Snider as an owner. Tough to get mad at a guy that wants to win too bad.

 

[Cobiemonster]

He was responsible for the Bryz disaster and the Flyers having to get rid of Bob because of that - it's things like that which piss everyone off because he ends up getting his hands in the cookie jar way too often - he's a hypocrite because he wants to win but he's not realizing that you can't just spend and spend and spend and go into FA and buy everything - he's not understanding how it works in this day of age - if the Flyers go out and spend like crazy in FA to try and get back to the playoffs again, it could kill their cap in the future once again - it's just dumb

 

[chy1127]

He was responsible for the Bryz disaster and the Flyers having to get rid of Bob because of that - it's things like that which piss everyone off because he ends up getting his hands in the cookie jar way too often - he's a hypocrite because he wants to win but he's not realizing that you can't just spend and spend and spend and go into FA and buy everything - he's not understanding how it works in this day of age - if the Flyers go out and spend like crazy in FA to try and get back to the playoffs again, it could kill their cap in the future once again - it's just dumb

I will give you Bryz as a bad move but that leads to Bob vs. Mason arguments. As far as spending on FA, we don't have cap space to do it. With the limited space and length of contracts his hands are tied. We will be building through the draft by default.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I will give you Bryz as a bad move but that leads to Bob vs. Mason arguments. As far as spending on FA, we don't have cap space to do it. With the limited space and length of contracts his hands are tied. We will be building through the draft by default.

If they're able to shed those contracts on defense before FA, that could change things

 

[chy1127]

If they're able to shed those contracts on defense before FA, that could change things

I really wish they could shed them. I am also hoping (and really do think) that Hexy is not the yes man Homer was.

 

[flyersfan4706]

The Bryz signing was a necessary risk. The window was closing (It essentially ended when Pronger got hurt in the fall) and a push wanted to be made. Obviously Bryz failed miserably, but I can't fault anyone for wanting to push for a goalie that summer. Do you remember the 2011 series against Buffalo? For all the hate Philadelphia goaltending gets, that series was the perfect example of how terrible our goaltending was. It nearly cost us our great season. (In the end we would get just destroyed by Boston anyway)

Sure it cost us Bob. I for one was never a believer, and I have a hard time believing anyone ever saw him winning a Vezina when he was in Philly. If even you did think Bob would be great, we have a cheaper, very comparable goalie in Mason that we acquired as a direct result of Bob being in Columbus.

Snider doesn't sign the free agents. This is Hextall's project.

 

[Cobiemonster]

The Bryz signing was a necessary risk. The window was closing (It essentially ended when Pronger got hurt in the fall) and a push wanted to be made. Obviously Bryz failed miserably, but I can't fault anyone for wanting to push for a goalie that summer. Do you remember the 2011 series against Buffalo? For all the hate Philadelphia goaltending gets, that series was the perfect example of how terrible our goaltending was. It nearly cost us our great season. (In the end we would get just destroyed by Boston anyway)

Sure it cost us Bob. I for one was never a believer, and I have a hard time believing anyone ever saw him winning a Vezina when he was in Philly. If even you did think Bob would be great, we have a cheaper, very comparable goalie in Mason that we acquired as a direct result of Bob being in Columbus.

Snider doesn't sign the free agents. This is Hextall's project.

Look, the Flyers needed stability in net, but there's a lot of issues that took place there: As bad as Paul Holmgren was late in his tenure as a GM, the one thing we can all agree on is that it was NOT his decision to sign Bryz, it was 100% Ed Snider because he totally panicked - and as much as I love Lavi, he had a part in it as well because he was flip flopping goalies and didn't give Bob a necessary chance to gain confidence with the team

If we're going to say that nobody saw Bob turning into a Vezina caliber goalie, then it has to be a two way street and we can't say that everyone saw Steve Mason turning into a top notch goalie for this team - the Flyers lucked out imo because they took a chance with Steve Mason and it worked, but if Steve Mason didn't work with the change of scenery here, the Flyers would have been screwed - that's the only reason why people think the Bryz signing was acceptable because "it all worked out in the end"

A smart team wouldn't have panicked after the three ring circus in the playoffs that year - if people knew and evaluated talent correctly, they would have realized that Bob was a friggin rookie that year for fuck sakes and that he had lots of room to grow and be even better - people were already saying he wasn't good enough - the issue was that Bob petered out late in the season because he played so often as a rookie - it was ignorance on people's part to put a stamp on him that early in his career when he got thrown into the fire so quickly - the Flyers fell apart once Chris Pronger got hurt, but had he not gotten hurt, I bet Bob would have done just as well as Bryz and long term, he probably would have been much better and the Flyers could have gotten legitimate defensive help had they not signed Bryz to that horrendous contract - the window would not have closed at all had they not signed Bryz and instead went with Bob - that's the issue in this town, we talk about the team not having patience yet it's okay and acceptable when they signed Bryz and he essentially took over for a goalie that had ONE year of experience and did pretty well overall considering the circumstances? The only reason that it's okay now is because Steve Mason is here, but the optics of the whole thing and the way they handled it was shitty and it shows why they're in the spot they're in at this point

Also, the Bryz signing made no sense especially considering they made all those trades that offseason as well - if you're going to trade and get younger like they did then, why would you sign Bryz? Why not roll with Bob and find maybe a solid 1B type of goalie for much cheaper that could have stepped in if Bob got hurt/struggled/or got tired?

Also, by signing Bryz, it essentially cost them Jaromir Jagr and Matt Carle for at least 1-2 more years and had they been able to keep those two guys, there wouldn't have been a need to trade JVR for a piece of trash that the Leafs were begging to get rid of - it's a chain effect - they would have been able to keep Jaromir Jagr, Matt Carle and JVR and wouldn't have had to sign friggin Vinny and while Mark Streit is very solid, they probably wouldn't have had to sign him either

 

[awaz]

I actually blame Homer more than I blame Snider for the Bryzaster. Yes, Snider told him to fix the goaltending problem. But he didn't (as far as we know) tell him to sign Bryz. And he didn't give him a ridiculous contract. I said it at the time, and it's still true now, the goaltending market is saturated. You can get good/servicable goalies on short contracts with good cap hits. If they had signed Bryz to a 2 year 4 mil contract it would have been a much different story and far less painful of a signing. Homer misjudged the market very badly. That's not Snider's fault IMO.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I actually blame Homer more than I blame Snider for the Bryzaster. Yes, Snider told him to fix the goaltending problem. But he didn't (as far as we know) tell him to sign Bryz. And he didn't give him a ridiculous contract. I said it at the time, and it's still true now, the goaltending market is saturated. You can get good/servicable goalies on short contracts with good cap hits. If they had signed Bryz to a 2 year 4 mil contract it would have been a much different story and far less painful of a signing. Homer misjudged the market very badly. That's not Snider's fault IMO.

Homer had a part in it, he did misjudge the market pretty badly, but I can't help but think that Ed Snider had a lot to do with it, especially for a contract that big, because he did sign off on it - he could have easily told Homer, "No, I don't want him at that price" but he agreed to it so he deserves blame as well

 

[wbon22]

It is pretty common knowledge, and has been written up in several publications that Snider was the driving force behind that move. Lavy didn't trust Bob (for whatever reason) and made a mockery of the position in the playoffs. Snider felt it looked horrible and more or less ordered Homer to get a veteran clear number one that Lavy would not jerk around.

It has been the case in the organization since Ed's return following the Lindros trade from Quebec. Clarke was very good at covering up for Snider when things just plain looked wrong. Homer was not as good at it and never had the same relationship with Snider. Hexy is even further removed so it will be interesting how much slack he is given.

 

[flyersfan4706]

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]

Look, the Flyers needed stability in net, but there's a lot of issues that took place there: As bad as Paul Holmgren was late in his tenure as a GM, the one thing we can all agree on is that it was NOT his decision to sign Bryz, it was 100% Ed Snider because he totally panicked - and as much as I love Lavi, he had a part in it as well because he was flip flopping goalies and didn't give Bob a necessary chance to gain confidence with the team

If we're going to say that nobody saw Bob turning into a Vezina caliber goalie, then it has to be a two way street and we can't say that everyone saw Steve Mason turning into a top notch goalie for this team - the Flyers lucked out imo because they took a chance with Steve Mason and it worked, but if Steve Mason didn't work with the change of scenery here, the Flyers would have been screwed - that's the only reason why people think the Bryz signing was acceptable because "it all worked out in the end"

A smart team wouldn't have panicked after the three ring circus in the playoffs that year - if people knew and evaluated talent correctly, they would have realized that Bob was a friggin rookie that year for fuck sakes and that he had lots of room to grow and be even better - people were already saying he wasn't good enough - the issue was that Bob petered out late in the season because he played so often as a rookie - it was ignorance on people's part to put a stamp on him that early in his career when he got thrown into the fire so quickly - the Flyers fell apart once Chris Pronger got hurt, but had he not gotten hurt, I bet Bob would have done just as well as Bryz and long term, he probably would have been much better and the Flyers could have gotten legitimate defensive help had they not signed Bryz to that horrendous contract - the window would not have closed at all had they not signed Bryz and instead went with Bob - that's the issue in this town, we talk about the team not having patience yet it's okay and acceptable when they signed Bryz and he essentially took over for a goalie that had ONE year of experience and did pretty well overall considering the circumstances? The only reason that it's okay now is because Steve Mason is here, but the optics of the whole thing and the way they handled it was shitty and it shows why they're in the spot they're in at this point

Also, the Bryz signing made no sense especially considering they made all those trades that offseason as well - if you're going to trade and get younger like they did then, why would you sign Bryz? Why not roll with Bob and find maybe a solid 1B type of goalie for much cheaper that could have stepped in if Bob got hurt/struggled/or got tired?

Also, by signing Bryz, it essentially cost them Jaromir Jagr and Matt Carle for at least 1-2 more years and had they been able to keep those two guys, there wouldn't have been a need to trade JVR for a piece of trash that the Leafs were begging to get rid of - it's a chain effect - they would have been able to keep Jaromir Jagr, Matt Carle and JVR and wouldn't have had to sign friggin Vinny and while Mark Streit is very solid, they probably wouldn't have had to sign him either

How can anyone agree Bryz was because of Snider? Has this been stated by anyone from the organization? Even implied? I'm sure he wanted stability in net, but so would any other rational human being in 2011.

Sure we may not have seen Mason turning into what he is today, but at least he had the Calder season track record, more then anything Bob had accomplished at the time.

Going with Bob while we were still trying to compete would have made zero sense. I don't care if he was the best goalie prospect on Earth (He wasn't), we rightfully sought to go with a proven goalie to go with our closing window. Also, no amount of money freed up from not signing Bryzgalov would have fixed the defense. Holmgren offered the most money to Suter and made a mega push for Weber, yet they aren't Flyers. The defense broke when we lost having a #1D in Chris Pronger. No team in the league with a #1D would survive if they lost that player permanently.

Sure we got younger, but it's wasn't a traditional rebuild. We were still a very good team. Again, why would we risk our closing competitive window by putting in the hands of Bob?

Carle, Jagr, and JVR don't fix this team. Carle is a pretty Andrew MacDonald. JVR would be a nice winger long term, but that is so far from a need it wouldn't even matter. Not sure how Vinny even relates, he is here due to the decline of Briere.[/COLOR]

 

[dspice07]

Reading through all of this and looking back at other decisions that were made at the end of Holmgren's tenure I have a hard time putting 100% of Bryz on Snider.

As a hockey guy, how the hell do you justify that contract to Bryz? I mean....it was common knowledge apparently around the league that most other teams scouting him weren't that impressed. His agent was working miracles. As a GM don't you have to come to the owner and say look, this guy is NOT GOOD, you cannot make this commitment to him. Same thing applies to Vinny, where are these contracts coming from, no one was going to give Vinny that.

 

[awaz]

Reading through all of this and looking back at other decisions that were made at the end of Holmgren's tenure I have a hard time putting 100% of Bryz on Snider.

As a hockey guy, how the hell do you justify that contract to Bryz? I mean....it was common knowledge apparently around the league that most other teams scouting him weren't that impressed. His agent was working miracles. As a GM don't you have to come to the owner and say look, this guy is NOT GOOD, you cannot make this commitment to him. Same thing applies to Vinny, where are these contracts coming from, no one was going to give Vinny that.

I'm with you. You can say the player was on Snider. Maybe he said 'Sign Bryzgalov'. But the contract is on Homer IMO. Same with the Vinny contract. Either of those players, on their own, isn't necessarily a bad signing. With the right contract, just about any player can be a good signing. Homer overpaid in cap space and duration on both of those contracts when it wasn't necessary.