Confused about Willie Young, Jared Allen

[richig07]

Okay, so we know for a fact that Houston is making the transition to be our SAM linebacker. Which makes a lot of sense, seeing as he was our strongest run stopper last year until he got hurt. SAM's main responsibility is to set the edge against the run and force run plays back inside. We also know that McPhee is going to be our WILL linebacker opposite of Houston.

This only confuses me a tad, because in Fox's press conference where he confirmed the transition to a 3-4, he said that Jared Allen and Willie Young would be working at LB as well.

Now, I haven't heard anything about this since, but where does this fit in? Fangio showed some 4-3 pre-snap looks in his time in San Francisco. Also mixes in some 3-4 under fronts, where the WILL lines up with his hand down, off of the edge in the 9 tech. Is it possible those are the fronts where Allen and Young will see some reps at LB?

Just wondering (like we all are) how this defensive front will come together, and where everyone back from last year fits in with the transition.

 

[NCChiFan]

You got me. Young may not be back for a bit, so that question may go unanswered till way into the season. Allen... Well, with his size, I can't imagine him playing LB outside, but it makes no sense to make him an ILB where rushing the passer has been his thing. I just... It is ... Could be...

 

[richig07]

You got me. Young may not be back for a bit, so that question may go unanswered till way into the season. Allen... Well, with his size, I can't imagine him playing LB outside, but it makes no sense to make him an ILB where rushing the passer has been his thing. I just... It is ... Could be...

Yeah, it's very strange. I mean, clearly nothing is definite, but the fact remains that Fox did say it… and I doubt he just did so for absolutely no reason at all.

My thinking is that they're kind of just waiting and seeing themselves, and that they'll be doing some experimenting come camp time.

It's just odd that Fangio has pretty much come out and said that the SAM LB job is Houston's to have. It looks like Shea will be working behind McPhee at the WILL. Yet… still supposedly they're still working two guys that will ideally be integral part of the defense at LB. I don't get it. Maybe with Allen you want to see where he fits in, but IMO, Young has to be one of your 4 techs.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

First if all, "Sam" and "will" aren't as conventional in a 3-4. One of the whole points of a 3-4 is to disguise the rush linebacker from whoever has to deal with the tight end. So I don't know that the distinctions are that clear. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised to bring in, say, young, McPhee, and Houston, and mix and match who has what responsibilities. It's a technique to keep the offense uncertain. Again, another basic goal of the 3-4.

 

[broncosmitty]

Willie Young is a badass.

 

[NCChiFan]

Willie Young is a badass.

With one wheel at the moment.

 

[broncosmitty]

With one wheel at the moment.

He'll rock it to till the wheels fall off. (Dude almost had to have his finger amputated a couple years ago cuz he didn't tell anyone about the injury, cuz he just wanted to play football.)

 

[RobBase]

I distinctly remember a lot of scouts thinking WY would enter the NFL as a rush the passer LB in a 3-4 scheme because of his size (weight not height). He might do well depending on that injury.

 

[richig07]

First if all, "Sam" and "will" aren't as conventional in a 3-4. One of the whole points of a 3-4 is to disguise the rush linebacker from whoever has to deal with the tight end. So I don't know that the distinctions are that clear. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised to bring in, say, young, McPhee, and Houston, and mix and match who has what responsibilities. It's a technique to keep the offense uncertain. Again, another basic goal of the 3-4.

I understand this, but the Sam and Will are definitely designated linebacker positions within the system. It's not as simple in the 3-4. But GENERALLY speaking in the most black and white terms, the SAM is your strong side backer who is your better run defender. While your Will will generally line up over the TE, try to disrupt his release before becoming a part of the rush on pass plays. AKA, your best pass rushing LB.

I do realize things are more complex than this, but that doesn't change the fact that your LB's are designated with position titles defensively, and that there is purpose behind it.

 

[beardown07]

Disguised defenses??


What's that?

 

[anotheridiot]

Willie Young was a beast last year, I can see him excelling at the OLB 4-3 DE spot. Houston keeps saying they used him wrong last year, he sure seemed more like the DE that would have his hand down each play since they expected him to be DE and 3 tech last year, he just didnt need to be the DT since it was strong last year.

Houston could not be traded due to his bonehead injury. Jared Allen could not be traded due to his 12.5 million roster bonus.

Honestly, these two seem like they will be getting less and less playing time. If you dont know what happens thru camp, I would expect Sutton being the nose tackle, Ego being one end, and the biggest guy that shows he cant play linebacker at the other hand down end. Right now its houston over allen. To me Allen will be a situational guy, third downs, not much more. McPhee should be the up guy. I think they are talking them up as much as possible to get some interest.

I think McDonald is a fringe guy that knows the system if nobody else works out. McCaskey will tire of questions about why he is here and he may not make it thru camp.

 

[richig07]

Willie Young was a beast last year, I can see him excelling at the OLB 4-3 DE spot. Houston keeps saying they used him wrong last year, he sure seemed more like the DE that would have his hand down each play since they expected him to be DE and 3 tech last year, he just didnt need to be the DT since it was strong last year.

Houston could not be traded due to his bonehead injury. Jared Allen could not be traded due to his 12.5 million roster bonus.

Honestly, these two seem like they will be getting less and less playing time. If you dont know what happens thru camp, I would expect Sutton being the nose tackle, Ego being one end, and the biggest guy that shows he cant play linebacker at the other hand down end. Right now its houston over allen. To me Allen will be a situational guy, third downs, not much more. McPhee should be the up guy. I think they are talking them up as much as possible to get some interest.

I think McDonald is a fringe guy that knows the system if nobody else works out. McCaskey will tire of questions about why he is here and he may not make it thru camp.

I'm confused... Houston was our best run defender last season. He was very good.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm confused... Houston was our best run defender last season. He was very good.

He was, just did not produce the quarterback pressure they expected. I just think he joins the hands down guys, and not this OLB that is referred to as the rushing linebacker in the 3-4 that everyone seems to be trying out for. The biggest beef last offseason was we did not have enough big defensive ends to go inside. I believe Houston dropped to 268.

 

[nebearsfan70]

All I know is that the chicks can't hold deh smoke. That's what it is.

 

[beardown07]

 

[richig07]

He was, just did not produce the quarterback pressure they expected. I just think he joins the hands down guys, and not this OLB that is referred to as the rushing linebacker in the 3-4 that everyone seems to be trying out for. The biggest beef last offseason was we did not have enough big defensive ends to go inside. I believe Houston dropped to 268.

The whole point of him going to OLB is that he's not as good of a pass rusher as Young or Allen. The SAM linebacker is your best run stopper in the 3-4, his main job is to seal the edge and force run plays back inside. The WILL is your best pass rusher, that is McPhee. Houston is going to LB because he's a good run defender.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Ok richig you have to explain this to me. My entire understanding of nfl defense is that the d linemen need leverage to control the run if the offensive linemen start moving forward. So...how exactly does taking our best run defender out of a three point stance make sense? Any fool can engage a right end. It's the guys who can stop a pulling guard or mauling tackle that are the premium.

On a not entirely unrelated note, I've concluded the whole "all our des are now olbs" is somehow pre-draft distraction. Don't ask me how, it's just a paranoid theory.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Tight end, not right end. Can't figure out the edit function cause it's an iPhone and I'm pretty buzzed.

 

[beardown07]

I originally thought when Houston first arrived that he played inside? I was kind of shocked to find out he was an end.

 

[anotheridiot]

I originally thought when Houston first arrived that he played inside? I was kind of shocked to find out he was an end.

He was signed as that end that could go to tackle when you bring in another end to pass rush. Its a different game playing with your hand on the ground or in a 2 point stance off the line of scrimmage that linebacker is gonna be playing. We did not have personnel to run the 3-4 last year because all our defensive ends were too small, so the biggest ends we have should be the guys that still are considered defensive ends. I dont want houston being on the "strong" side, he is the linebacker responsible to cover the tight end, so if the tight end runs a route, houston wont be rushing. Wasnt a big part of the past three or four years the fact that a safety or nickel back was trying to cover a 260 pound 6-6 tight end? Your best cover linebacker should be opposite of that rushing linebacker of McPhee. I really dont know who is coming up with these ends to linebacker announcements. The DE on the 3-4 are in one one more gap, between the tackle and the guard, and the strongest guy will usually get double teamed.

They are gonna line up 5 across the line of scrimmage, Standing up are linebacker, then an end, nose tackle, end, another linebacker. One of the linebackers is gonna rush, usually the weak side when there is not a tight end on the line. The linebacker that is gonna cover the tight end will be on that tight end side.

Sam and Will are terms usually used for a three linebacker set. Strong side, tight end side, weak side, tackle uncovered,