Game Thread: Cat fight!

[bengaldoug]

Go Browns!

And take the Indians and Cavaliers with you!!!!!!

 

[bengaldoug]

oh geez

1. it wasn't a tackle, it was just a block, and he was not past the point where he can't be touched. The defender didn't do anything illegal.
2. Dalton clearly threw it into whitworth's back, maybe he was hoping it would bounce harmlessly to the ground for an incomplete, but it wasn't.

Dalton made a few good throws, but no more than a backup QB could have done.

he's probably our best QB, but he's clearly not the QB of the future. this shit can't be allowed to continue for the next 5 years.

Come on Danno, you know he's going to be here.

 

[bengaldoug]

I say for now on then, we tackle the RB no matter if he has the f'n ball or not so he can't be an eligible receiver down field or nab a screen pass. It makes sense, let's just take the f'n RB out of the play.


See how stupid that sounds. Of course that is not legal, and neither is what happened to Burkhead.

Actually that's exactly what good defenses do........

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Actually that's exactly what good defenses do........

Sounds good. Lets do it on every play and see if we ever get called for defensive holding or pass interference. I say we will get flagged more often than not.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Come on Danno, you know he's going to be here.

If AJ Mac heals and starts learning, I wouldn't put it past Mike Brown to start acting like Dalton's salary was the lone obstacle holding us back. the conversation will be "who do you release/trade Dalton or AJ Green?" people will be all worried and shit, and it will be a fabrication and construction of the Bengals front office just to gain a larger profit and people will eat the shit up.

 

[bengaldoug]

Sounds good. Lets do it on every play and see if we ever get called for defensive holding or pass interference. I say we will get flagged more often than not.

From the NFL rulebook:

Section 4 Legal and Illegal Contact With Eligible Receivers
LEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS
Article 1 Legal Contact Within Five Yards. Within five yards of the line of scrimmage, a defensive player may chuck an
eligible receiver in front of him. The defender is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard
zone, so long as the receiver has not moved beyond a point that is even with the defender.


According to this rule it is perfectly legal to take out an eligible receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage, before the ball is thrown. So there was no foul.

 

[flamingrey]

Agree with Crash. Granted the defensive player tripped, he tackled Burkhead. That's defensive holding no matter where it occurs on the field. Had he simply PUSHED Burkhead and Burkhead had fallen or had Dalton been out of the pocket, that would have been okay. But neither is the case.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

From the NFL rulebook:

Section 4 Legal and Illegal Contact With Eligible Receivers
LEGAL CONTACT WITHIN FIVE YARDS
Article 1 Legal Contact Within Five Yards. Within five yards of the line of scrimmage, a defensive player may chuck an
eligible receiver in front of him. The defender is allowed to maintain continuous and unbroken contact within the five-yard
zone, so long as the receiver has not moved beyond a point that is even with the defender.


According to this rule it is perfectly legal to take out an eligible receiver within five yards of the line of scrimmage, before the ball is thrown. So there was no foul.

So you are saying, we can have our DB's tackle the WR's at the line of scrimmage and that is okay? Because it is within the 5 yards, and they are maintaining continuous contact by laying on the poor bastard, it is not an illegal play? Burkhead was an eligible receiver.

Now what about the DL grabbing and tackling a blocker to get him out of the way for a LB to shoot a gap to hit the QB?

There is absolutely no way in this scenario that is a freaking legal play.

I want to first say, Dalton sucked ass on that play and should have seen things getting bad before attempting to even think about that screen pass. However, Dalton's shit throw should have occurred to a RB who was not smothered on the ground by a fat freaking DL. But it is not Dalton's fault that his RB was tackled coming out of the backfield as a eligible receiver.


2nd....Holy shit, Flaming agreed with me, hell might have frozen the F over.

 

[DanBengalfan]

well, as was said before, it looked like he tripped over someone, so obviously incidental contact. incidental contact is even allowed in non-contact sports, so we're not really arguing about anything substantial here.

 

[Cincyfan78]

well, as was said before, it looked like he tripped over someone, so obviously incidental contact. incidental contact is even allowed in non-contact sports, so we're not really arguing about anything substantial here.

Not true at all. We've all seen a DB trip and make contact with the WR and get a PI call. Happens a lot when feet get tangled up.

 

[Cincyfan78]

So you are saying, we can have our DB's tackle the WR's at the line of scrimmage and that is okay? Because it is within the 5 yards, and they are maintaining continuous contact by laying on the poor bastard, it is not an illegal play? Burkhead was an eligible receiver.

Now what about the DL grabbing and tackling a blocker to get him out of the way for a LB to shoot a gap to hit the QB?

There is absolutely no way in this scenario that is a freaking legal play.

I want to first say, Dalton sucked ass on that play and should have seen things getting bad before attempting to even think about that screen pass. However, Dalton's shit throw should have occurred to a RB who was not smothered on the ground by a fat freaking DL. But it is not Dalton's fault that his RB was tackled coming out of the backfield as a eligible receiver.


2nd....Holy shit, Flaming agreed with me, hell might have frozen the F over.

The issue isn't that he made contact with the RB...the issue is that he dragged him down, which should have been holding.

You can't tackle a WR for the same reason...to tackle, you'd have to wrap him up and bring him down...that would be holding every single time.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The issue isn't that he made contact with the RB...the issue is that he dragged him down, which should have been holding.

You can't tackle a WR for the same reason...to tackle, you'd have to wrap him up and bring him down...that would be holding every single time.

I was just being facetious due to the fact most the people here think that play by the DL was not holding. Maybe it was incidental to begin with, but the second he made contact, he decided to grab Burkhead and drag him to the ground with him. I don't care what position you are playing on the field, if you do not have the football in your hands, that is a damn holding penalty, which was clearly not called.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I think he was just holding him to make sure he was ok. you know, it's just brotherly love.

 

[bengaldoug]

So you are saying, we can have our DB's tackle the WR's at the line of scrimmage and that is okay? Because it is within the 5 yards, and they are maintaining continuous contact by laying on the poor bastard, it is not an illegal play? Burkhead was an eligible receiver.
Now what about the DL grabbing and tackling a blocker to get him out of the way for a LB to shoot a gap to hit the QB?

There is absolutely no way in this scenario that is a freaking legal play.

I want to first say, Dalton sucked ass on that play and should have seen things getting bad before attempting to even think about that screen pass. However, Dalton's shit throw should have occurred to a RB who was not smothered on the ground by a fat freaking DL. But it is not Dalton's fault that his RB was tackled coming out of the backfield as a eligible receiver.


2nd....Holy shit, Flaming agreed with me, hell might have frozen the F over.

I believe the key phrase is "so long as the receiver has not moved past a point that is even with the defender." He has to be released at that point. How many times have you seen a guy in press coverage absolutely maul a guy until he gets past him?

 

[bengaldoug]

So you are saying, we can have our DB's tackle the WR's at the line of scrimmage and that is okay? Because it is within the 5 yards, and they are maintaining continuous contact by laying on the poor bastard, it is not an illegal play? Burkhead was an eligible receiver.

Now what about the DL grabbing and tackling a blocker to get him out of the way for a LB to shoot a gap to hit the QB?

There is absolutely no way in this scenario that is a freaking legal play.

I want to first say, Dalton sucked ass on that play and should have seen things getting bad before attempting to even think about that screen pass. However, Dalton's shit throw should have occurred to a RB who was not smothered on the ground by a fat freaking DL. But it is not Dalton's fault that his RB was tackled coming out of the backfield as a eligible receiver.


2nd....Holy shit, Flaming agreed with me, hell might have frozen the F over.

I'm not saying anything. I'm just quoting the rulebook, which defines defensive holding as being past five yards downfield.

 

[flamingrey]

I believe the key phrase is "so long as the receiver has not moved past a point that is even with the defender." He has to be released at that point. How many times have you seen a guy in press coverage absolutely maul a guy until he gets past him?

But the receiver HAD moved past the point where he was even with the defender.

Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton intercepted by Thomas - NFL Videos

Burkhead had half a step and his back turned to the defender before he was tackled. The only difference from a typical play being that they weren't headed up the field, but towards the sideline.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'm not saying anything. I'm just quoting the rulebook, which defines defensive holding as being past five yards downfield.

The defensive player can maintain a block on a guy up to 5 yards down the field, meaning get his hands on him and prevent him from completing his route in a timely manner within that 5 yards, but he is in no way allowed to tackle a guy. Come on man, you are smarter than this.

Offensive lineman get called for much less. There is no way a defensive player is allowed to tackle a guy and take him to the ground, even if he does trip and incidentally fall on him. No matter how you slice it, that is a penalty.

Listen, it doesn't matter at this point. The penalty was not called, it really affected the momentum of the game, but we still came out of the game on top. We don't smell like roses come Monday morning, but we survived. Hopefully some of this crap that occurred during this game is a little fuel to fire the team up come Thursday night.

I agree that Dalton needs to do a better job of taking care of the ball here lately, he is an average QB, and as an average QB, the only way to appear better than average is to take care of the ball and be a really good game manager. Dalton is lacking in those areas the last couple weeks. However, he is also making some plays that we are not used to seeing Dalton make either.

All in all, this team needs to get healthy quick, they need to play as a unit, and they cannot take anything for granted, because this is the NFL where any week you can have your doors blown off by any team.

 

[bengaldoug]

But the receiver HAD moved past the point where he was even with the defender.

Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton intercepted by Thomas - NFL Videos

Burkhead had half a step and his back turned to the defender before he was tackled. The only difference from a typical play being that they weren't headed up the field, but towards the sideline.

I really studied that video, and I can see where you are coming from. It did appear that Burkhead was slightly past the defender, but I'm still unsure it was holding. It could have been considered incidental contact, what with the defender falling as he hit Burkhead. It also could have been out of the sight of the linesman, since there was a cluster he was trying to pop out of. Doesn't change the fact that Dalton reacted poorly.

 

[cincygrad]

 

[DanBengalfan]

who was the defender again?