a 1 to 1 roster comparison: 2012 to 2009

[Illinest]

Surprise! This one is audience participation.

Starting Pitchers:
2009 - Paul Maholm, Ian Snell, Zach Duke, Ross Ohlendorf, Jeff Karstens
2012 - Erik Bedard, Jeff Karstens, James McDonald, A.J. Burnett, Charlie Morton

I like this rotation a lot better. 2009 rotation was terrible. Even if everyone had a career year at the same time it wouldn't have been all that good.

Bullpen:
2009 - Matt Capps, Tyler Yates, Craig Hansen, John Grabow, Donnie Veal, Sean Burnett, Jesse Chavez
2012 - Correia, Cruz, Grilli, Hanrahan, Hughes, Meek, Resop, Watson

This requires some imagination because I don't know which of these 8 would be removed from the bullpen if Burnett and Morton weren't on the DL. Doesn't really matter. The 2009 bullpen was not very good. Capps, Grabow, Burnett, and Chavez were probably the best of a weak group. I do believe that the 2012 version is better.

Outfield:
2009 - Nate McLouth, Nyjer Morgan, Brandon Moss, Craig Monroe
2012 - Nate McLouth, Andrew McCutchen, Jose Tabata, Alex Presley

Not even close. McLouth was highly regarded at the time and Morgan was always interesting. Moss turned out to be a terrible failure but we never had much more than optimism for him. The 2012 version makes it's superiority clearly felt by using the best of the 2009 group as the 2012 group's backup.

Infield:
2009 - Adam LaRoche, Freddy Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Andy LaRoche, Ramon Vazquez, Eric Hinske
2012 - Garret Jones, Neil Walker, Clint Barmes, Pedro Alvarez, Casey McGehee, Matt Hague, Yamaico Navarro, Josh Harrison

This isn't so clear to me. Adam Laroche was (and is) a pretty fair 1B. Yeah he's got an extremely strange spring summer split but at the end of the year he's always got good figures. I'd be happy to have him back if we could.
Sanchez was never as good as he was made out to be but Wilson was one of the best defensive SS in the league. We can only hope that Barmes gives us something close to his level of production.
On the other hand Andy LaRoche, Vazquez, Hinske - not much to talk about. The current iteration has higher ceilings and more options.

Catchers:
2009 - Ryan Doumit, Jason Jarmillo
2012 - Rod Barajas, Mike McKenry

We traded hitting catchers for fielding catchers. I think McKenry is an ideal backup catcher but I'd take Doumit back if I could.

 

[sychmd]

amazing, karstens is the only holdover.
we got to be the only team that flipped the whole roster.

wonder in 2015 how many we will still have from 2012 roster.

i agree with you this is the best collection of talent and potential. they seem to have good chemistry together as well.

just one big hitter, then all the rest will slot appropriately rather than having to be one position higher.
same with our rotation. one ace, then move everyone down a notch and we got a really good rotation.

 

[Illinest]

You're still more optimistic than I am.

 

[sychmd]

hope for the best, expect the worst, and don't worry until something is actually wrong.
optimism never costs anyone anything. it is a blessing and a free gift to give anyone, and no matter how much of it you give, you will never run out.

 

[thedddd]

Man it is hard to fathom how bad that 2009 team was!

I guess we all try to put it out of our memories.

 

[Illinest]

The 2009 team was very bad indeed but I was less pessimistic then.

I remember talking myself into Duke being a quality back of the rotation guy. Nowadays we've got another Duke and his name is Correia.
I remember feeling optimistic about Snell and Andy Laroche. There wasn't a whole lot of reason for it but I worked myself up for it.

Did what I had to do to keep myself sane I guess.

 

[Darkstone42]

There are two big differences I see between the 2009 and 2012 teams:

1. "Established" talent: Even though the 2012 roster is still pretty young, they've had a better collective showing to this point in their MLB careers than the members of the 2009 roster.

2. Potential: There is so much more upside on the 2012 roster than there was on the 2009 roster. We have legitimate reasons to be hopeful for breakout seasons from guys like Tabata and Presley, decent chances for guys like Jones, Walker, Hague, adn McGehee, a legitimate and established talent in McCutchen, and the slim but oh so attractive possibility of something big from Pedro.

I like this roster a lot more.

 

[magnumo]

Man it is hard to fathom how bad that 2009 team was!

I guess we all try to put it out of our memories.

And as bad as the 2009 team was at only 62 wins (worse than any Pirate season since 2001, when the team also won only 62 games), the 2010 was even worse, at only 57 wins.

 

[magnumo]

Thanks, Illinest

Nice post..... tried to "approve" it, but got that "spread it around" message again.

But, dang it..... now you got me thinking about the 2013 rotation.

- Bedard's contract expires at the end of the season. Will they try to re-sign him? How much will he cost?

- Burnett will still be around in 2013 (unless he's traded) at a cost of $8 mill to the Pirates.

- Correia should be gone (if not traded, his contract will expire). I HOPE they don't try to re-sign him.

- Karstens will be in his third arbitration year in 2013.

- Morton will be in his second arbitration year in 2013.

- McDonald will be in his first arbitration year in 2013.

- Barring trades or injuries, none of the guys at AAA are likely to get many starts this season.

Guess we're all hoping that the prospects start to show up over the next couple of seasons..... and PERFORM.

 

[element1286]

Bench is deeper for sure, and are pushing the guys in the starting lineup.

 

[smokeyburgess]

Guess Who?

Would you want a pitcher with the following 2011 stats as a back-end-of- the rotation starter this year? I've divided them into his best starts (18) and the worst starts (8).

THE GOOD/DECENT:

Inn. H BB earned runs

6.2 7 3 1
6.1 9 1 1
6 5 1 3
6 6 2 1
6 5 1 4
6 9 1 3
5.2 4 3 1
7.2 7 0 4
6 6 2 2
7.1 4 2 0
6.2 7 0 2
6.1 10 0 4
6 5 2 2
6.2 3 1 0
9 4 2 2
7 5 2 0
6 7 1 2
6 5 2 4

THE UGLY:

Inn. H BB earned runs

6 8 1 6
5.2 5 4 4
2 10 0 8
4.2 7 3 7
3.2 9 1 5
5 8 2 4
4 8 2 6
4.2 11 1 5

This pitcher clearly wasn't dominant, but he was fairly consistent and usually kept his team in the game, which is exactly what you would hope for from a fourth or fifth starter. When he was bad, as he was in his worst 8 starts, he was very bad, but that's also what one might expect from a back-of-the-rotation guy. On the whole, he had about 2 good or decent starts for every bad one. Not bad, especially for the mediocre team he pitched for last year.

Who is he? Do you think the Pirates could use someone with his track record as a fourth or fifth starter?

Finally, I'm curious to see if my attempt at lining up the stats doesn't come out a jumbled mess when I post this. :confused2:

 

[thedddd]

And as bad as the 2009 team was at only 62 wins (worse than any Pirate season since 2001, when the team also won only 62 games), the 2010 was even worse, at only 57 wins.

Yep blocked those also!

Anyway the positive I see about this team is the roster has promise to be good. Whereas that 2009 team was really at the bottom of no hope.

 

[uncfan103]

amazing, karstens is the only holdover.
we got to be the only team that flipped the whole roster.

wonder in 2015 how many we will still have from 2012 roster.

i agree with you this is the best collection of talent and potential. they seem to have good chemistry together as well.

just one big hitter, then all the rest will slot appropriately rather than having to be one position higher.
same with our rotation. one ace, then move everyone down a notch and we got a really good rotation.

The way y'all changed your team was so weird for me. I went to a Pirates series in 2008 and i felt like everytime after that i watched the Pirates play they had lost somebody.

that was one of the games i saw. Great game, bad ending (for me).