21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[lasgop8]

I think we’re going to get back to being hard to play against. How exciting. It’s proven to be such a good way to win a cup these days.

One thing is for sure is that being hard to play against is a way easier way to get to a cup than being small sucky and a team full of pusses.

 

[awaz]

One thing is for sure is that being hard to play against is a way easier way to get to a cup than being small sucky and a team full of pusses.

I think we can agree on being sucky is a bad way to win. And the flyers have done a lot of that.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I may be officially done with this organization. Fletcher is going to ruin this team for years. There is no effort at all to build this team into a winner! This dude sucks on sooo many levels. Oh well I think it's time to move on to being an Avs fan full time. I can't be a faithful fan to an organization bent on mediocrity and nothing more. I guarantee that worthless shit Yeo will be next year's coach too!

 

[awaz]

I may be officially done with this organization. Fletcher is going to ruin this team for years. There is no effort at all to build this team into a winner! This dude sucks on sooo many levels. Oh well I think it's time to move on to being an Avs fan full time. I can't be a faithful fan to an organization bent on mediocrity and nothing more. I guarantee that worthless shit Yeo will be next year's coach too!

That's what's so disheartening. This isn't a bad rental acquisition. This is putting a garbage team in cap hell too. There's no way out for YEARS.

I cant wait to see what piece of shit "ready to contribute" player comes back for Giroux. Fletcher is such a joke. It is absolutely astonishing what NHL owners let their management teams do before they fire them. This level of incompetence wouldn't last 2 weeks anywhere else. Except maybe for politics.

 

[lasgop8]

I may be officially done with this organization. Fletcher is going to ruin this team for years. There is no effort at all to build this team into a winner! This dude sucks on sooo many levels. Oh well I think it's time to move on to being an Avs fan full time. I can't be a faithful fan to an organization bent on mediocrity and nothing more. I guarantee that worthless shit Yeo will be next year's coach too!

This organization has been built on mediocrity for the last 10 years and you stayed a fan so you can give up now.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

This organization has been built on mediocrity for the last 10 years and you stayed a fan so you can give up now.

True, but the moves are becoming worse and worse, like Awaz said, this is just putting your team farther in a hole and using money that could be spent on an impact player. When you're tied up in deals that are shitty for years, then you can never afford the Panarins, Hamilton's or any other elite hitting the market, and there sure as hell isn't any lure for those players to want to come here.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

That's what's so disheartening. This isn't a bad rental acquisition. This is putting a garbage team in cap hell too. There's no way out for YEARS.

I cant wait to see what piece of shit "ready to contribute" player comes back for Giroux. Fletcher is such a joke. It is absolutely astonishing what NHL owners let their management teams do before they fire them. This level of incompetence wouldn't last 2 weeks anywhere else. Except maybe for politics.

I just hoped that they hired Briere to become a voice in these situations, but if he was on board with this signing then he needs to go to. It's just so freaking mind boggling that we can see this dude is in no way shape or form anything other than a 3 Rd dman pairing at best. I have a hard time thinking no one offered anything for him.

 

[wbon22]

I am not "done" with the organization, but I am disheartened. Not because of resigning Risto. He is a capable 2R player and has made Samhiem better. His only downside is that he can't/hasn't played with Provy.
No, my contempt is reserved for Fletcher and to a lesser extent Yeo. They both stink of the mediocrity that was the Wild. I see no vision in Fletcher's ability to draft, find hidden jewels in college free agents, or undrafted free agents. All key elements of developing a deep successful organization.
I too easily can see the Flyers falling back into the "mucker with size" first over skill and skating drafting that Clarke and Holmgren were so known for. (yes there were exceptions, but only a few).

 

[lasgop8]

True, but the moves are becoming worse and worse, like Awaz said, this is just putting your team farther in a hole and using money that could be spent on an impact player. When you're tied up in deals that are shitty for years, then you can never afford the Panarins, Hamilton's or any other elite hitting the market, and there sure as hell isn't any lure for those players to want to come here.

Just because AWAZ said it doesn't make it true. I personally agree with AWAZ i dont like the move but we dont know what's going to happen. Maybe with these moves we are going to make at the deadline will help our team and not hinder us. Giving up on this team shouldn't be your only option especially when we have the deadline and the summer and the draft to come.

 

[lasgop8]

I am not "done" with the organization, but I am disheartened. Not because of resigning Risto. He is a capable 2R player and has made Samhiem better. His only downside is that he can't/hasn't played with Provy.
No, my contempt is reserved for Fletcher and to a lesser extent Yeo. They both stink of the mediocrity that was the Wild. I see no vision in Fletcher's ability to draft, find hidden jewels in college free agents, or undrafted free agents. All key elements of developing a deep successful organization.
I too easily can see the Flyers falling back into the "mucker with size" first over skill and skating drafting that Clarke and Holmgren were so known for. (yes there were exceptions, but only a few).

Just look at the Wild a playoff team as of now and know that all the good players they have right now Fletcher brought them in.

Hextall killed this organization not Fletcher.

Fletcher very well may suck today but as of now we have more trades and drafts and summer moves to do before he is put out to pasture.

 

[chy1127]

Well Risto is #7 in hits (Gudas #1).

 

[lasgop8]

Well Risto is #7 in hits (Gudas #1).

Gudas is also plus 25


Gudas >>>>> Risto !!!

 

[awaz]

True, but the moves are becoming worse and worse, like Awaz said, this is just putting your team farther in a hole and using money that could be spent on an impact player. When you're tied up in deals that are shitty for years, then you can never afford the Panarins, Hamilton's or any other elite hitting the market, and there sure as hell isn't any lure for those players to want to come here.

I'm not giving up because I can't. But I agree 100% that the moves are getting worse and worse. Before there was a plan. Clear the cap space, acquire draft and prospect capital and let it develop. They just chose the wrong guys at the draft the table. Or they didn't develop them properly. Good plan, bad execution.

Now, the plan is just bad. Give up assets to clear cap space and/or add overpaid players. They're going to run out of assets and cap space before they can construct a good roster. You cannot sign and trade your way to a Stanley Cup in the cap era. You just can't.

 

[purdue81]

I'm not giving up because I can't. But I agree 100% that the moves are getting worse and worse. Before there was a plan. Clear the cap space, acquire draft and prospect capital and let it develop. They just chose the wrong guys at the draft the table. Or they didn't develop them properly. Good plan, bad execution.

Now, the plan is just bad. Give up assets to clear cap space and/or add overpaid players. They're going to run out of assets and cap space before they can construct a good roster. You cannot sign and trade your way to a Stanley Cup in the cap era. You just can't.

I should remind all of you that the Flyers are stellar compared to my Browns.

I guess I’m just wedded to bad organizations - and my loyalty keeps me there haha.

 

[awaz]

Couturier, Ellis and Kevin Hayes are basically untradeable at this point, due to their contract sizes, protection clauses in their deals or recent injury histories (and in some cases, all three). Maybe James van Riemsdyk ($7 million cap hit) gets moved out, but given his age and underwhelming season, that likely requires some salary retention (or dead money via a buyout), so that’s not opening up a ton of space. Trade Provorov? Maybe, but then they’d need a 1LD replacement, and Sanheim has never thrived on the top pair. Shop Sanheim, as TSN’s Darren Dreger suggested on Thursday? That would likely be a disaster, given that he’s likely the primary reason Ristolainen’s results in his first season in Philadelphia haven’t been disastrous. Travis Konecny? Again, maybe, but he’s in the midst of a second straight down year, so his value isn’t exactly through the roof. And even after executing on a few of those theoretical moves, they’re basically just cobbling together enough cap space to acquire a Giroux replacement. Unless the 2021-22 Flyers had a Stanley Cup caliber roster that was simply decimated by injuries — an unlikely explanation at best — that’s not going to push them back into relevancy.

With Rasmus Ristolainen extension, Flyers prioritize style of play over results — and it will cost them

The Flyers believe Rasmus Ristolainen is good for their team culture, even if he hasn't helped them win games.

theathletic.com

 

[awaz]

I should remind all of you that the Flyers are stellar compared to my Browns.

I guess I’m just wedded to bad organizations - and my loyalty keeps me there haha.

Couldn't decide to laugh or cry with you on this one! What a mess.

 

[awaz]

So, with Ristolainen, Ellis, Sanheim, and Provorov in the fold, plus York, Zamula, and Attard in the wings, you have to assume they want a forward to be the jewel of the Giroux return. Makes me think Florida (Tippet) or NYR (Kravtsov) would be the leaders from a Flyers perspective.

Unless they get wild and want to move Sanheim and/or Provorov.

Still not sure where the star-power comes from though.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Just look at the Wild a playoff team as of now and know that all the good players they have right now Fletcher brought them in.

Hextall killed this organization not Fletcher.

Fletcher very well may suck today but as of now we have more trades and drafts and summer moves to do before he is put out to pasture.

He also built a team above slight mediocrity in Minnesota. His teams never made past the 2nd round of any playoff run. He had Beaudroux for a coach, he also gave 2 outrageous contracts to Suter and to Parise which tied his hands to bringing in any final pieces to push for the cup. He also had the luck of bringing in a young Devyn Dubnik who behind a solider defense could have done way better. When Yeo took over the Wild went down hill fast, then he sputtered with a high caliber team in St.louis only to be fired and then watch Berube win a cup with the same talent pool. The Flyers woes are not on Fletcher yet, but remember, Ellis is strike one in my book, Risto deal is strike 2. He still hasn't hired a coach, and like you said, we still have the trade deadline to get through. If he rehires Yeo then I'll def be gone for good.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

So, with Ristolainen, Ellis, Sanheim, and Provorov in the fold, plus York, Zamula, and Attard in the wings, you have to assume they want a forward to be the jewel of the Giroux return. Makes me think Florida (Tippet) or NYR (Kravtsov) would be the leaders from a Flyers perspective.

Unless they get wild and want to move Sanheim and/or Provorov.

Still not sure where the star-power comes from though.

That would be a bold trade, neither one of those guys is top tier level to me. I hope Colorado is still in the mix, to me they have better options, which in turn may be harmful to us since all we really have is Giroux, the waiting ought to be fun though huh?

 

[awaz]

That would be a bold trade, neither one of those guys is top tier level to me. I hope Colorado is still in the mix, to me they have better options, which in turn may be harmful to us since all we really have is Giroux, the waiting ought to be fun though huh?

Who are you thinking from Colorado? They seem like an awkward fit now with Ristolainen resigned. Helleson and Barron seemed to be the major options from Colorado and they're both RHD. With Ellis and Risto signed, seems like that would be a waste of your best tradeable asset in Giroux. Assuming Newhook and Byram are out, they just don't seem to match now.

I'm just trying to figure out how the Flyers add high end talent, which is what Fletcher admitted the team needs. Maybe they move Giroux for a high potential LHD, hope he pans out, free up enough space to add a Giroux-level replacement in free agency, and then move Sanheim or Provorov for what you hope is a high end forward? But for Provorov in particular, they'd be dealing him at his lowest value. Which is why it's so difficult to trade your way to success, especially from a team that has shit the bed two years in a row. You're selling low on everyone.

To me, Fletcher's hopes here rely on the injured guys being enough to get them to playoff-caliber, getting Gaudreau on a home-town discount, and that one of these moves returns a guy that has a massive breakout next year to take them to 'contender'. Seems like some pretty long odds to me.

They're 30th in the league in goals and their best offensive player is most likely gone in a couple weeks. Where is the offense going to come from next year? The big impact injuries are even defensive (Couturier, Hayes, Ellis). They need to do more than replace Giroux up front; they're bad offensively with him.