2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[Maverick426h]

Check this shit out:

'21-'22 Flyers through 37 games: 13-17-7 with 33 points (lost 12 of next 14 games, finished with 61 points)

'22-'23 Flyers through 37 games: 13-17-7 with 33 points (future yet to be decided)

Anyone really think this shorthanded, no-talent squad of wannabe Nhl stars that have won 4 of their last 7 will finish at or south of 61 points!?!

Keep fucking battling baby and let the chips fall where they may!!

 

[awaz]

Check this shit out:

'21-'22 Flyers through 37 games: 13-17-7 with 33 points (lost 12 of next 14 games, finished with 61 points)

'22-'23 Flyers through 37 games: 13-17-7 with 33 points (future yet to be decided)

Anyone really think this shorthanded, no-talent squad of wannabe Nhl stars that have won 4 of their last 7 will finish at or south of 61 points!?!

Keep fucking battling baby and let the chips fall where they may!!

Here's the problem though. Winning 4 out of 7 is about the best they've done all season, and it's 1.14 points per game. If they keep that level up for the last 45 games, they finish with 84 pts. 13 points behind the lowest point total for a playoff team last year. NYI finished with 84 points last year and got the 13th overall pick in the draft. IMO, that's about the worst case 22-23 season for the Flyers.

The Flyers need top 5 draft picks if they want to get out of this. They don't have to gut the team like the Oilers and Sabres have done and subsequently haven't been able to dig out. They have some decent pieces like TK, Couturier, Sanhiem, Hart, Provorov sometimes. Tippet/York are showing some potential. Laughton and Cates are good 3rd/4th line guys on a contender.

But they absolutely need the talent that only comes from top 5 draft picks. IMO, to be a cup contender the Flyers are missing an entire 1st line and probably a full top pair. Maybe you get by with Couturier as your 1C, but you need a very solid 2C if that's the case and they don't have that either.

 

[chy1127]

Here's the problem though. Winning 4 out of 7 is about the best they've done all season, and it's 1.14 points per game. If they keep that level up for the last 45 games, they finish with 84 pts. 13 points behind the lowest point total for a playoff team last year. NYI finished with 84 points last year and got the 13th overall pick in the draft. IMO, that's about the worst case 22-23 season for the Flyers.

The Flyers need top 5 draft picks if they want to get out of this. They don't have to gut the team like the Oilers and Sabres have done and subsequently haven't been able to dig out. They have some decent pieces like TK, Couturier, Sanhiem, Hart, Provorov sometimes. Tippet/York are showing some potential. Laughton and Cates are good 3rd/4th line guys on a contender.

But they absolutely need the talent that only comes from top 5 draft picks. IMO, to be a cup contender the Flyers are missing an entire 1st line and probably a full top pair. Maybe you get by with Couturier as your 1C, but you need a very solid 2C if that's the case and they don't have that either.

Crap, i thought we have the Panther's pick for next year as well, but that is a 2024. Back to the be competitive and lose scenario.

 

[Maverick426h]

Here's the problem though. Winning 4 out of 7 is about the best they've done all season, and it's 1.14 points per game. If they keep that level up for the last 45 games, they finish with 84 pts. 13 points behind the lowest point total for a playoff team last year. NYI finished with 84 points last year and got the 13th overall pick in the draft. IMO, that's about the worst case 22-23 season for the Flyers.

The Flyers need top 5 draft picks if they want to get out of this. They don't have to gut the team like the Oilers and Sabres have done and subsequently haven't been able to dig out. They have some decent pieces like TK, Couturier, Sanhiem, Hart, Provorov sometimes. Tippet/York are showing some potential. Laughton and Cates are good 3rd/4th line guys on a contender.

But they absolutely need the talent that only comes from top 5 draft picks. IMO, to be a cup contender the Flyers are missing an entire 1st line and probably a full top pair. Maybe you get by with Couturier as your 1C, but you need a very solid 2C if that's the case and they don't have that either.

I doubt we can win 4 out of every 7 games. That's not reasonable (with this roster), but I do think we will best last season's point total, which is saying a lot when you consider that we have far less talent/skill and even more significant, lengthy injuries.

Yeah, we are missing an entire 1st line. Couturier and Atkinson are basically 2 of those 3 players...Lol Also, that very solid 2C could very well be Cutter Gauthier in a couple seasons, which would mean he is already in the pipeline of the franchise.

I think we agree on most all of this, but my point is that we might as well instill the right culture and identity to the franchise this season if we aren't going to full-on tank for a top 3 pick (which it sure as hell looks like we're not). There are 5-6 teams already in better position to get a top 3 (or top 5) overall pick than us and we're actually favored to win tonight.

Given we have that extra 1st round pick in 2024, I wouldn't be surprised if we packaged that and something else to snatch another 1st rounder in '23. Hopefully that is the case and it's a future top pairing defenseman. Also, we're going to get assets for JvR and Braun at some point.

Do we want Torts to improve the culture and the competitive nature of the squad or do we want to tank for a top 3 pick? I don't think we can successfully do both. So, I'd rather be a team that goes 100% all of the time, wins some games it shouldn't and then later on gets rewarded by the hockey gods for not straight-up tanking. It's more difficult to win the draft lottery these days anyway. Nobody is the early 2000's Pens, but the fucking Devils have come close.

 

[awaz]

I doubt we can win 4 out of every 7 games. That's not reasonable (with this roster), but I do think we will best last season's point total, which is saying a lot when you consider that we have far less talent/skill and even more significant, lengthy injuries.

Yeah, we are missing an entire 1st line. Couturier and Atkinson are basically 2 of those 3 players...Lol Also, that very solid 2C could very well be Cutter Gauthier in a couple seasons, which would mean he is already in the pipeline of the franchise.

I think we agree on most all of this, but my point is that we might as well instill the right culture and identity to the franchise this season if we aren't going to full-on tank for a top 3 pick (which it sure as hell looks like we're not). There are 5-6 teams already in better position to get a top 3 (or top 5) overall pick than us and we're actually favored to win tonight.

Given we have that extra 1st round pick in 2024, I wouldn't be surprised if we packaged that and something else to snatch another 1st rounder in '23. Hopefully that is the case and it's a future top pairing defenseman. Also, we're going to get assets for JvR and Braun at some point.

Do we want Torts to improve the culture and the competitive nature of the squad or do we want to tank for a top 3 pick? I don't think we can successfully do both. So, I'd rather be a team that goes 100% all of the time, wins some games it shouldn't and then later on gets rewarded by the hockey gods for not straight-up tanking. It's more difficult to win the draft lottery these days anyway. Nobody is the early 2000's Pens, but the fucking Devils have come close.

I think we agree on a lot of stuff too, don't get me wrong. And I agree 100% that you can't hire Torts and instill the right culture, while also tanking for a top 3 pick. (The best way to do it is to get really really injured, which is a funny 'coincidence'). But that's why the Torts hiring and some of the other moves frustrates me so much. I'm good with Torts. Good with instilling a better culture. But this year doesn't make sense to do it if you're not going to go 'all in' to sign Gaudreau. It's not often a top 5ish winger wants to come and probably willing to come at a discount. Fucking go for it, or admit it's going to be a couple years and plan accordingly.

The one place we disagree on is how good Couturier and Atkinson are. Compare Couturier/Atkinson to the top lines on contenders. Boston has Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak. Toronto has Matthews/Marner. Avs have MacKinnon/Rantanen. TB has Point/Kucherov. Edm has McDavid/Draisatl. Carolina has Aho/Svechnikov. Vegas has Stone/Eichel. And I think given the choice of that group or the field, any hockey fan would pick that group to win the next handful of cups. Even if I concede to Couturier being Bergeron level, the Flyers don't have a Marchand or a Pastrnak to pair with him.

 

[wbon22]

The Flyers do not have legit top line talent, injured or healthy. That is problem 1. With the injured players and G they had a cohesive unit that could compete, but that was all. They couldn't go every far.

Just counting down to the Fletcher firing. Wonder who else gets shown the door that day?

 

[lasgop8]

3 in a row Lord Stanley here we come!!!

 

[Chris p Bacon]

3 in a row Lord Stanley here we come!!!

My biggest fear is we beat too many teams below us and keep us at a 50/50 finish. I'm not rooting for a tank job , but I would never trust Fletcher to make any good decisions in free agency, so I would rather have a better shot in the lottery. My other hope is Fletcher is gone soon, but they little streaks may work for him too. His off season decisions alone should warrant his dismissal.

 

[lasgop8]

I am very very very impressed with Ersson. No wasted movement and looks so fluid in his motion out there. Pretty good at handling the puck as well.

 

[lasgop8]

My biggest fear is we beat too many teams below us and keep us at a 50/50 finish. I'm not rooting for a tank job , but I would never trust Fletcher to make any good decisions in free agency, so I would rather have a better shot in the lottery. My other hope is Fletcher is gone soon, but they little streaks may work for him too. His off season decisions alone should warrant his dismissal.

I have to say i dont think we are getting that top 5 pick everyone is hoping for. They didn't resign Risto add DeAngelo and bring in Torts to be bottom 5 in the standings. Even if we get a top 5 pick we always mess it up. I am just enjoying this season and if we get a top 5 pick that would be awesome, If we keep winning ill enjoy that as well. Its so much more fun to watch this team this year than in the previous 3-4 years.

 

[Maverick426h]

I think we agree on a lot of stuff too, don't get me wrong. And I agree 100% that you can't hire Torts and instill the right culture, while also tanking for a top 3 pick. (The best way to do it is to get really really injured, which is a funny 'coincidence'). But that's why the Torts hiring and some of the other moves frustrates me so much. I'm good with Torts. Good with instilling a better culture. But this year doesn't make sense to do it if you're not going to go 'all in' to sign Gaudreau. It's not often a top 5ish winger wants to come and probably willing to come at a discount. Fucking go for it, or admit it's going to be a couple years and plan accordingly.

The one place we disagree on is how good Couturier and Atkinson are. Compare Couturier/Atkinson to the top lines on contenders. Boston has Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak. Toronto has Matthews/Marner. Avs have MacKinnon/Rantanen. TB has Point/Kucherov. Edm has McDavid/Draisatl. Carolina has Aho/Svechnikov. Vegas has Stone/Eichel. And I think given the choice of that group or the field, any hockey fan would pick that group to win the next handful of cups. Even if I concede to Couturier being Bergeron level, the Flyers don't have a Marchand or a Pastrnak to pair with him.

For sure, we should've went all-in on Gaudreau. Now he's stuck in Columbus, whom are now a full 11 points behind us (pretty fucking unreal...Lol) in the standings.

I would argue that Couturier is at or very near the level of a Bergeron, yes, plus he's 7 and a half years younger. There's a reason Boston is so stacked and dominant right now. They have arguably the best line in hockey and none of them is breaking the bank. In fact, Bergeron took a severe pay cut and both Marchand/Pastrnak took about 30% less. That's probably $12-15 million saved right there. It's not even fair.

This won't be a popular opinion, but at his current pace, Konecny basically is a Marchand. And again, he's 9 years younger. We're definitely missing a Pastrnak, I'll give you that (that said, a lot of teams are), but we don't have the cap space for one yet either, at least not right this second.

Toronto can't even get out of the 1st round. Sure, I'd take Matthews in a heartbeat, but idk if they are winning a Cup anytime soon. Tavares is a good bit overpaid at this point and do they have enough defense or in net? They also may or may not be a cursed franchise (more so than even us).

Colorado obviously just won a Cup, but appear to be suffering a slight hangover and have only 1 pick in the first four rounds of this strong '23 draft. They definitely hit on some top 10 picks, but now they have to pay some guys and we'll see where that leaves them.

TB is also most definitely in win-now mode. I don't think any team can match-up with their talent/skill at every single position. They are pretty much the model of success right now in the Nhl.

Edmonton: (see Toronto)....Lol I mean, yeah, they have two absolute superstars, but seem to always be weak on defense and in net. They're never going to win anything with that recipe.

Carolina is maybe a starting goalie away from winning multiple Cups. What can you say? They've basically just done a superb job drafting, trading and building that franchise into a perennial contender. Not only that, they are loaded with picks and have the cap space. Their situation should probably be the envy of the entire Nhl.

Vegas was a solid team from day one due to that absurd expansion draft. I like Stone, but he sure as hell looks overpaid. Again with Eichel, he's elite, but is the guy ever healthy? They have a good team overall, but idk if I want those two forwards. They have some top tier defensemen that I would take.

Basically, even a lot of the top contending teams have serious issues. Of the teams you mentioned, I think Boston, TB, and Carolina are in the best position to win the Cup this season and moving forward. We're not catching these three teams anytime soon and there's not much we can do about it...Lol

 

[lasgop8]

Trivia: Which NHL team currently is tied for the league lead in shot handed goals?

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Trivia: Which NHL team currently is tied for the league lead in shot handed goals?

 

[Chris p Bacon]

If Hayes is being discussed as a potential buyout candidate, the Flyers should look at Ristolainen first

We all know the disparaging facts about the salary cap situation for the Philadelphia Flyers. It has been well documented for years, it was a problem under Paul Holmgren, his mess took 4-5 years to clean up under Ron Hextall, until Chuck Fletcher brought the Flyers right back into the pit...

www.flyersnation.com

 

[lasgop8]

If Hayes is being discussed as a potential buyout candidate, the Flyers should look at Ristolainen first

We all know the disparaging facts about the salary cap situation for the Philadelphia Flyers. It has been well documented for years, it was a problem under Paul Holmgren, his mess took 4-5 years to clean up under Ron Hextall, until Chuck Fletcher brought the Flyers right back into the pit...

www.flyersnation.com

I agree with this 100%. Even though Risto is playing better these days i think we need to get rid of one or two defense men to let Zamula and York and maybe Attard come up and play full time and flourish.

 

[lasgop8]

I dont know if anyone has been watching the World Juniors but Bedard is on another planet right now. Ive never seen anyone dominate the tourney like he is doing.

 

[lasgop8]

IIHF - Statistics 2023 IIHF WORLD JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP

IIHF - Statistics 2023 IIHF WORLD JUNIOR CHAMPIONSHIP

www.iihf.com

Tied for 5th best in the tourney.

I forgot who said we dont have a 2nd line center, Cutter Gauthier will be our 2nd line center behind Couts.

 

[awaz]

For sure, we should've went all-in on Gaudreau. Now he's stuck in Columbus, whom are now a full 11 points behind us (pretty fucking unreal...Lol) in the standings.

I would argue that Couturier is at or very near the level of a Bergeron, yes, plus he's 7 and a half years younger. There's a reason Boston is so stacked and dominant right now. They have arguably the best line in hockey and none of them is breaking the bank. In fact, Bergeron took a severe pay cut and both Marchand/Pastrnak took about 30% less. That's probably $12-15 million saved right there. It's not even fair.

This won't be a popular opinion, but at his current pace, Konecny basically is a Marchand. And again, he's 9 years younger. We're definitely missing a Pastrnak, I'll give you that (that said, a lot of teams are), but we don't have the cap space for one yet either, at least not right this second.

Toronto can't even get out of the 1st round. Sure, I'd take Matthews in a heartbeat, but idk if they are winning a Cup anytime soon. Tavares is a good bit overpaid at this point and do they have enough defense or in net? They also may or may not be a cursed franchise (more so than even us).

Colorado obviously just won a Cup, but appear to be suffering a slight hangover and have only 1 pick in the first four rounds of this strong '23 draft. They definitely hit on some top 10 picks, but now they have to pay some guys and we'll see where that leaves them.

TB is also most definitely in win-now mode. I don't think any team can match-up with their talent/skill at every single position. They are pretty much the model of success right now in the Nhl.

Edmonton: (see Toronto)....Lol I mean, yeah, they have two absolute superstars, but seem to always be weak on defense and in net. They're never going to win anything with that recipe.

Carolina is maybe a starting goalie away from winning multiple Cups. What can you say? They've basically just done a superb job drafting, trading and building that franchise into a perennial contender. Not only that, they are loaded with picks and have the cap space. Their situation should probably be the envy of the entire Nhl.

Vegas was a solid team from day one due to that absurd expansion draft. I like Stone, but he sure as hell looks overpaid. Again with Eichel, he's elite, but is the guy ever healthy? They have a good team overall, but idk if I want those two forwards. They have some top tier defensemen that I would take.

Basically, even a lot of the top contending teams have serious issues. Of the teams you mentioned, I think Boston, TB, and Carolina are in the best position to win the Cup this season and moving forward. We're not catching these three teams anytime soon and there's not much we can do about it...Lol

I agree with most of this, with the one caveat is that I'd rather have the McDavid/Draisatl/Matthews/Marner portion of the roster taken care of than to have what the Flyers have in most cases (guys that would be good or even great mid-bottom of the lineup guys on a contender). The one exception being Hart. Getting the goalie figured out is key too, which Toronto/Edmonton/Carolina don't have. Add in that the Flyers are in worse shape cap wise than some of these teams and it looks like even more of a disaster. They're projected to spend more cap space than Boston, Carolina, and Colorado this year. You can't tie up this much money on the bottom of the lineup and then go bargain hunting for top of the lineup players. It's so backwards. I don't understand how anyone in the Flyers organization can be OK with what they've done.

 

[lasgop8]

Crap, i thought we have the Panther's pick for next year as well, but that is a 2024. Back to the be competitive and lose scenario.

Florida's first round pick in 2024 that we received in the Giroux deal is top 10 protected.

 

[lasgop8]

NHL tanking rankings: Who's in prime position to secure Connor Bedard?

As the hockey world watches Connor Bedard light up the World Juniors like no other, the NHL's worst teams may take their tank to the next level.

www.yahoo.com