Perhaps one of the Worst trades in Sports History....

[Northern Eagle]

I find that odd because he threw the ball with more zip than either Foles or Sanchez in this past preseason. It's probably a chronic weakening.

I think the surgery did affect him, and much like Kolb, he can make the NFL throws when he has a clean pocket w/ no one around him - get him on the move and forget about it.

 

[Northern Eagle]

lol. Foles never said he wanted to leave Philly; one report states vaguely that Foles told a "relative of his that he wanted out." Crappy rumor mill, of course.

I saw Foles play in a heavy snowstorm and in frigid weather in CBP and he played like it was a spring day.

In one 2013 game Foles threw 7 TDs without an interception. Foles holds the best TD-INT ratio in a single season (2013) with 27 touchdown passes and only 2 interceptions.

Chip was mad when Foles tossed 10 interceptions last year in 7 games. But Kelly did dump their best WR Jackson the year before. Eagles were 5-2 last year before Foles broke his collarbone.

All of this proves Chip's clownish nature. But I hope he succeeds.

I agree - that's why I was disappointed Chip gave up on him so quickly, tougher than a 3 dollar steak, had the respect of his teammates, showed flashes of being a legitimate NFL QB. I thought he would have done a lot better next year with the run support we have in place now.

I will say this about Bradford, a significant reason he became as revered a prospect as he was coming out of Oklahoma is the offense he ran. Assuming he's still here after the draft, Chip's offense is the same one he ran in college where he put up record numbers and won the Heisman, and most draftniks had him ranked (as a prospect) with some of the best to come out in the last 10-15 years. maybe this is the coach and the offense that will help him live up to some of that potential - he's still only 27

 

[Northern Eagle]

Several years ago, there were two NFL free agent quarterbacks making the rounds in Dante Culpepper and Drew Brees. Miami was a little scared of Brees's injury history and balked and ultimately signed Culpepper.

Frankly, both guys were worth a look see. One was a bust and the other a HOFer. You take a shot when you see a talented guy hit the market.

And only a couple of years ago, another injury risk player named Peyton Manning hit the market. I think Denver is glad they signed him even if they haven't won a Super Bowl with him.

You make a good point about Brees, I remember laughing at the Saints for giving him a $60M contract coming off of shoulder surgery that most people at the time thought he was damaged goods. Sometimes you have to take a chance if you think he's worth it, hopefully the same way that many are probably laughing at us right now for getting Bradford, he will become our version of Brees.

 

[Taz]

Over reaction huh? We traded a healthy young QB plus a 2nd rd pick for a guy with blown knees....Seems like a Warranted reaction to me. Again I don't care if Bradford ends up being Tom Brady, there is no way Chip should have had to throw a 2nd rd pick in there for him...UNLESS he already had a deal worked out with Tampa Bay, then this whole thread would be a moot point. To give that much up for a QB with 2 ACL tears, and mediocre stats at best in 4 seasons is in fact INSANE.

No use arguing with these guys Wings, they seem to know everything. Facts mean nothing. Must blindly follow Chip Kelly like a robot and when he fails must blindly follow the next guy. Our opinons mean nothing. When Bradford never hits the field rehashing this thread should be interesting. I will be the first one to say I am wrong if Bradford overcomes and wins a Super Bowl for us. I am not so sure we will see that from others

 

[eaglesnut]

You make a good point about Brees, I remember laughing at the Saints for giving him a $60M contract coming off of shoulder surgery that most people at the time thought he was damaged goods. Sometimes you have to take a chance if you think he's worth it, hopefully the same way that many are probably laughing at us right now for getting Bradford, he will become our version of Brees.

Back then I wanted Andy to go get Brees. Didn't happen. Hopefully this is the next best thing.

 

[eaglesnut]

No use arguing with these guys Wings, they seem to know everything. Facts mean nothing. Must blindly follow Chip Kelly like a robot and when he fails must blindly follow the next guy. Our opinons mean nothing. When Bradford never hits the field rehashing this thread should be interesting. I will be the first one to say I am wrong if Bradford overcomes and wins a Super Bowl for us. I am not so sure we will see that from others

You and Wings don't have facts. You have fear that Bradford "never hits the field." That's it. Fear is not a fact. And fear isn't much of an opinion either.

Here's a fact: there's about a 97% chance we don't win the Super Bowl. Bradford is how you best attack the rest of the league from your 3%.

 

[deerpathdave]

No use arguing with these guys Wings, they seem to know everything. Facts mean nothing. Must blindly follow Chip Kelly like a robot and when he fails must blindly follow the next guy. Our opinons mean nothing. When Bradford never hits the field rehashing this thread should be interesting. I will be the first one to say I am wrong if Bradford overcomes and wins a Super Bowl for us. I am not so sure we will see that from others

lol. Passive aggressive always seems so childish to me. If you can't win an arguments on merit, just accuse the other side of not thinking.

I would just like to know how you value your medical opinion of the Bradford over the Eagles? I just simply believe they know more than we do.

 

[Iggloo]

Does Chip have rabies? This is pretty funny:

Does Chip Kelly Have Rabies?

 

[deerpathdave]

I agree - that's why I was disappointed Chip gave up on him so quickly, tougher than a 3 dollar steak, had the respect of his teammates, showed flashes of being a legitimate NFL QB. I thought he would have done a lot better next year with the run support we have in place now.

I will say this about Bradford, a significant reason he became as revered a prospect as he was coming out of Oklahoma is the offense he ran. Assuming he's still here after the draft, Chip's offense is the same one he ran in college where he put up record numbers and won the Heisman, and most draftniks had him ranked (as a prospect) with some of the best to come out in the last 10-15 years. maybe this is the coach and the offense that will help him live up to some of that potential - he's still only 27

You are right and I do think Foles could have done well here. Its that potential that Bradford has that is intriguing. He could be that franchise guy, and to risk a 2nd round pick to find out seems like win or lose a worthy investment. Even if he fails, we still have Sanchez who I think Kelly views as at least Foles' equal.

 

[Iggloo]

My medical opinion, as a non doctor but a rational human being not drinking kool-aid anymore, is that trading a potential young franchise QB and picks for a guy who is coming off two torn ACLs and has played 7 games in two years is...most unwise.

Bat $hit crazy might also be an apt description.

But, I guess we will all see how this plays out. Maybe Bradford is ready to start by opening day (he was noncommittal on his status last week), stays in one piece, and actually plays better than Foles. I suppose this is all possible. But it seems...unlikely.

 

[deerpathdave]

My medical opinion, as a non doctor but a rational human being not drinking kool-aid anymore, is that trading a potential young franchise QB and picks for a guy who is coming off two torn ACLs and has played 7 games in two years is...most unwise.

Bat $hit crazy might also be an apt description.

But, I guess we will all see how this plays out. Maybe Bradford is ready to start by opening day (he was noncommittal on his status last week), stays in one piece, and actually plays better than Foles. I suppose this is all possible. But it seems...unlikely.

Jeff Fisher probably views it the same way as you. His history with QB evaluation is drafting Steve McNair and Vince Young.

 

[Iggloo]

Chip's history is drafting Matt Barkley and acquiring Mark Sanchez--twice. Your point?

 

[Funk]

Did Chip or Howie draft Barkley? One would think it was Howie given that Chip didn't have final say.

And Sanchez is a fine backup QB.

 

[deerpathdave]

Chip's history is drafting Matt Barkley and acquiring Mark Sanchez--twice. Your point?

Drafting McNair and Young is not a horrible record. Neither is picking up Sanchez as a FA. Fisher is a smart guy, albeit more of a defensive mind.

My main point was that there are two sides to every trade, and both guys probably feel they got the better end of the deal. Its that dynamic that makes trades happen and make them interesting to discuss. If it wasn't a debateable which side got the better deal, the trade probably wouldn't have happened.

That does go back to the title of the thread though, of perhaps the worst trade in sports history. At the time of the trade, usually both sides have their reasons and it's usually a fair and rational trade at the time. Its what happens afterwards that often skews the view of the trade, and that is often just life happening. Players getting hurt, players and teams developing and having success. We can never know for sure what would have happened if the trade didn't happen, so these trade evaluations are always somewhat revisionist history. Perhaps whatever QB ends up in STL goes on to a HOF career or vice versa?

The important thing may not be the result, but if the trade rationale makes sense at the time of the trade. Its somewhat results oriented thinking to evaluate it based on what happened, rather than having sound reasoning behind the decision.

Its complicated by the fact that it is impolite and poor gamesmanship usually to fully explain your rationale. Kelly is never going to say anything negative about Foles and Fisher is never going to say anything negative about Bradford. So both coaches are only telling us part of the story. We kind of have to read between the lines for the rest.

 

[lpennington]

One thing I don't want to see is the Rams trying to humiliate us publicly after the fact like they attempted to do to Washington when they trotted out the players acquired with the picks the received in the RG3 deal as captains before kickoff.

 

[Iggloo]

McNair nearly won a Super Bowl and was a pretty solid QB, so certainly no shame in that.

 

[Rey]

Just got home and saw this .... but just in case it wasn't posted somewhere:

ESPN's Adam Caplan confirms the Browns offered a first-round pick for Sam Bradford.

Per Caplan, the Browns offered their second first rounder, the No. 19 overall selection. The Browns also own the No. 12 pick. It's unclear if the offer came before or after Bradford's trade to Philadelphia. Owner Jimmy Haslam seems hellbent on finding a "franchise quarterback," but only has Josh McCown to show for it. This is something to file away in case Oregon QB Marcus Mariota falls to No. 12. Perhaps Eagles football czar Chip Kelly would then be willing to play ball with the Browns.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

Just got home and saw this .... but just in case it wasn't posted somewhere:

ESPN's Adam Caplan confirms the Browns offered a first-round pick for Sam Bradford.

Per Caplan, the Browns offered their second first rounder, the No. 19 overall selection. The Browns also own the No. 12 pick. It's unclear if the offer came before or after Bradford's trade to Philadelphia. Owner Jimmy Haslam seems hellbent on finding a "franchise quarterback," but only has Josh McCown to show for it. This is something to file away in case Oregon QB Marcus Mariota falls to No. 12. Perhaps Eagles football czar Chip Kelly would then be willing to play ball with the Browns.

Interesting. If that should happen (he falls to 12) do you think our 1st, sam Bradford, and a conditional 2nd/3rd next year (depending on Bradfords performance or playing time for the browns this year) would do the deal??? If so, we would have basically given up our 1st and 2nd (and next years 2nd/3rd) along with Foles to get Mariota.

 

[deerpathdave]

The presence of a Cleveland in these trade talks sheds some light on things.

1. CLE evidently was willing to pay a #1 for Bradford. So we kind of know his market value.
2. STL preferred Foles and a #2 next year to a #1 pick this year.
3. I would guess that CLE would not give up a #1 for Foles? Its hard to imagine it wasn't discussed.
4. But STL would give up Bradford (worth a #1, if they got a #2 back next year), so I would peg Foles value as worth approximately a #2 pick. That sounds about right as well based on the Alex Smith trade to KC.
3. So if you will, PHI gave up two #2s, for a #1

No matter how you slice it, it appears that Bradford was viewed as more valuable by both CLE and PHI than Foles.

 

[skinzfan]

The same Browns that picked Johnny Manziel in the first round last year?

Not sure anything the Browns do is indicative of the NFL as a whole.