NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[DJ]

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I was scrolling thru Twitter and I saw someone say Coach Cal is the Doc Rivers of college basketball. You know, that's not a bad comparison. Both riding off one championship, failed deliver many more with a bunch of talented teams.

I'd go as far as to say Cal is even worse. At least now he is.

He didn't correct his freshman one time (at least I'm assuming so based on they didn't change anything) to attack the fucking basket. They just kept launching contested 3 after contested 3 and eliminated their athleticism advantage.

Combine that with his continued stupid cute rotations he's constantly running because he's more worried about keeping everyone happy than playing the best players.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Granted covid but Kentucky hasn't seen a second weekend in 5 years now

recruiting ranks

19 (2) covid
20 (1) missed tournament
21 (2) 1st rd exit
22 (5) 2nd rd exit
23 (1) 1st rd exit

They've won 1 regular season (the covid year) and 0 tournament in conference

 

[Stakesarehigh]

well Damm I wish I had bet all these lol

12 and 2 ATS in this free pool

 

[shopson67]

It’s weird

He prepares his guards for the nba better than anyone

But almost to his own detriment

It's pretty difficult to take a roster full of guys biding time until the draft to come together as a team apparently.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

It's pretty difficult to take a roster full of guys biding time until the draft to come together as a team apparently.

eh

they still want to win. I agree we are seeing deeper more consistent runs from more veteran teams.

just roll a damn ball out there and UKs five best beat Oakland 97 out of 100 times

which is basically what Cal does but I'd say it's even worse because of his rotations

 

[Stakesarehigh]

His usage of Justin Edwards is criminal for starters. It was also very clear DJ Wagner was overhyped because of his dad yet he still started him every game. He could not figure out any kind of rotation with his bigs. One game Mitchell would play 45 minutes the next game he'd play 15.

But Edwards...is the egregious one. They beat the Vols when he played 37 minutes and then in a tourney game he got 17. This was a top 5 recruit. Just insanity.

I used to hate UK but my wife is a fan so I half ass root for them now. So this is just annoying as hell to me lol.

 

[shopson67]

eh

they still want to win. I agree we are seeing deeper more consistent runs from more veteran teams.

just roll a damn ball out there and UKs five best beat Oakland 97 out of 100 times

which is basically what Cal does but I'd say it's even worse because of his rotations

The rotations are a necessary evil to keep all of those egos in line though. It's all related IMO.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The rotations are a necessary evil to keep all of those egos in line though. It's all related IMO.

Then adjust your approach no? But regardless I am going to want to win. Playing DJ Wagner 25 minutes a game and taking away time from 3 guys who are clearly much better is why we are here. Well it's part of it. The rest is in game coaching and adjustments.

Tell DJ and his dad they aren't good enough. Because it's fucking obvious to everyone with 2 eyes. Dejuan Wagner from 25 years ago wasn't walking through that door

 

[trojanfan12]

Combine that with his continued stupid cute rotations he's constantly running because he's more worried about keeping everyone happy than playing the best players.

That's definitely a big part of the problem, maybe the biggest. It seems counterintuitive, but there is definitely a point where a team can have too much talent. I can see where it can be tough to get everyone the minutes they expect. He'd probably be better served trying to build more like an NBA team. Have 2-3 top level players and try to put role players around them.

But top level players know that Calipari will get them playing time so they can go to the NBA after 1 year. How do you tell a 4 or 5 star recruit who wants to come to your school..."No thanks, I already have all the 4 and 5 star guys I need. I'm looking for some 2 or 3 star guys"? lol

Also, in games like yesterday, you have a bunch of extremely talented players who are freshmen going against juniors and seniors who are 22-23 years old. So, in close games like that, the more experienced players tend to make better decisions down the stretch.

 

[trojanfan12]

But regardless I am going to want to win.

I'm sure Kentucky's players want to win. But when you have as much talent as they do...your ego tells you that you being in the game gives your team the best chance to win. Add to that the fact that they are 18/19 year olds still learning to play and you get what you get. lol

The concept that you coming off the bench or playing a lesser role could actually help the team and isn't necessarily a bad thing can be hard enough for an experienced NBA player...gotta be even harder for some 18 year old.

 

[The Q]

That's definitely a big part of the problem, maybe the biggest. It seems counterintuitive, but there is definitely a point where a team can have too much talent. I can see where it can be tough to get everyone the minutes they expect. He'd probably be better served trying to build more like an NBA team. Have 2-3 top level players and try to put role players around them.

But top level players know that Calipari will get them playing time so they can go to the NBA after 1 year. How do you tell a 4 or 5 star recruit who wants to come to your school..."No thanks, I already have all the 4 and 5 star guys I need. I'm looking for some 2 or 3 star guys"? lol

Also, in games like yesterday, you have a bunch of extremely talented players who are freshmen going against juniors and seniors who are 22-23 years old. So, in close games like that, the more experienced players tend to make better decisions down the stretch.

You get veteran role players like Mitchell and reeves

It’s a balance of getting your top guys minutes no matter what

Lots of ways to do it

Baylor’s top guys were transfers and older dudes

Kansas developed their core Guys like Wilson, McCormick etc

Uconn did the same but then filled their bench with quality vet transfers

It’s hard, but it can be done

 

[The Q]

I'm sure Kentucky's players want to win. But when you have as much talent as they do...your ego tells you that you being in the game gives your team the best chance to win. Add to that the fact that they are 18/19 year olds still learning to play and you get what you get. lol

The concept that you coming off the bench or playing a lesser role could actually help the team and isn't necessarily a bad thing can be hard enough for an experienced NBA player...gotta be even harder for some 18 year old.

The funny thing is it would be good for some of them since they won’t be in star roles in the nba so cal gets them ready for their actual nba role

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'm sure Kentucky's players want to win. But when you have as much talent as they do...your ego tells you that you being in the game gives your team the best chance to win. Add to that the fact that they are 18/19 year olds still learning to play and you get what you get. lol

The concept that you coming off the bench or playing a lesser role could actually help the team and isn't necessarily a bad thing can be hard enough for an experienced NBA player...gotta be even harder for some 18 year old.

the bench thing is cool and all...I'm just not seeing why you even keep Wagner in the rotation. You're basically playing him to keep him happy since he is clearly not NBA level this year. Meanwhile you sit a 6 foot 8 wing who is a top 5 recruit and is clearly making your team better when he's on the floor.

simultaneously your big rotation completely changes each game.

And he is not doing that to put the best product out there he is doing it to manage egos


And that's why they are losing.

 

[trojanfan12]

You get veteran role players like Mitchell and reeves

It’s a balance of getting your top guys minutes no matter what

Lots of ways to do it

Baylor’s top guys were transfers and older dudes

Kansas developed their core Guys like Wilson, McCormick etc

Uconn did the same but then filled their bench with quality vet transfers

It’s hard, but it can be done

The funny thing is it would be good for some of them since they won’t be in star roles in the nba so cal gets them ready for their actual nba role

Agree 100% with both. I think Cal needs to adjust how he builds his team. Seems like he does a great job of convincing these kids to come to UK, but when they get there, struggles with convincing them that they may need to stay another year or 2 to really have the kind of impact in the NBA they want.

 

[The Q]

the bench thing is cool and all...I'm just not seeing why you even keep Wagner in the rotation. You're basically playing him to keep him happy since he is clearly not NBA level this year. Meanwhile you sit a 6 foot 8 wing who is a top 5 recruit and is clearly making your team better when he's on the floor.

simultaneously your big rotation completely changes each game.

And he is not doing that to put the best product out there he is doing it to manage egos


And that's why they are losing.

Edwards was pretty bad most of the year

A few hot games shouldn’t give him the blanket trust people seem to think he deserves

He didn’t earn that much rope

 

[trojanfan12]

the bench thing is cool and all...I'm just not seeing why you even keep Wagner in the rotation. You're basically playing him to keep him happy since he is clearly not NBA level this year. Meanwhile you sit a 6 foot 8 wing who is a top 5 recruit and is clearly making your team better when he's on the floor.

simultaneously your big rotation completely changes each game.

And he is not doing that to put the best product out there he is doing it to manage egos


And that's why they are losing.

Agree. But the problem is convincing those 18 year olds. We've seen egos destroy veteran locker rooms in the NBA, I'd expect that it would be even more likely to happen with 18 year olds.

Having said that...end of the day, he's paid to win at Kentucky, not get his players to the NBA. To do that, he's going to have to at least start stepping on some egos.

 

[The Q]

Agree 100% with both. I think Cal needs to adjust how he builds his team. Seems like he does a great job of convincing these kids to come to UK, but when they get there, struggles with convincing them that they may need to stay another year or 2 to really have the kind of impact in the NBA they want.

Hard to do that when your sales pitch is one and done


Especially on this current world with stupid worthless policies

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Edwards was pretty bad most of the year

A few hot games shouldn’t give him the blanket trust people seem to think he deserves

He didn’t earn that much rope

By years end he was clearly a better player than day 1. The same cannot be said for Wagner. And you have 2 other guys who can play point.

Its whatever really I'm just saying he is fantastic at getting these kids to UK and absolutely awful at managing them in game.

There is no question his players have a higher hit percentage in the league but as Trojan said that isn't his main job.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Hard to do that when your sales pitch is one and done


Especially on this current world with stupid worthless policies

I'm a bigger proponent today for straight from HS or 2 years then ever.

I'd even go 3 like football but I know it wouldn't fly.

Make these kids go to class and earn that NIL money they're raking in. Hell they may find they like college and are making way more than they would in G League.