MJ Kobe Lebron?

[Robotech]

At the same time, LeBron's defensive metrics rank better than Kobe's.....all defensive team is the NBA equivalent of MLB's gold gloves, where deserving players often don't get their due and certain players keep winning based on past reputations.

Kobe's defensive box plus minus isn't great. He actually finished negative 0.1 for his career. His very best season was positive 1.6 for the 1999-2000 season.

 

[Robotech]

At the same time, LeBron's defensive metrics rank better than Kobe's.....all defensive team is the NBA equivalent of MLB's gold gloves, where deserving players often don't get their due and certain players keep winning based on past reputations.

Meanwhile, LeBron is at positive 1.8 defensive plus minus for his career and has had several seasons where he was above 2, including one season where he was above 3. Also averages 2 more rebounds per game than Kobe and higher averages for steals and blocks, too. LeBron is the better defender.

 

[tlance]

Lebron: 5x All Defensive 1st team, 1x All Defensive 2nd team

Kobe: 12x All Defensive 1st team, 3x All Defensive 2nd team

Well, hold on though.

That does not mean Kobe was the better defender.

Kobe: 1.4 steals, .5 blocks, 50.7 defensive win shares in 20 seasons, -.1 DBPM, 105 defensive rating
LeBron: 1.6 steals, .8 blocks, 70.4 defensive win shares in 17 seasons, 1.8 DBPM, 104 defensive rating

And while defense is impossible to measure perfectly with stats, these numbers certainly don’t back up the accolade count voted on by the media. Since LeBron is better in every single major defensive stat available on basketball reference, I am going to say he was probably the better defender too. Or at least we can’t just give it to Kobe because of the accolades.

Kobe was not a better defender than LeBron. Just far easier to win all defense as a guard than a forward over the last 20 years or so.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Yeah, that is just not true.

You are an adult. You were obviously a lot younger when you watched MJ. Probably even a kid?

Tons of kids today tune in to watch LeBron just like kids in my generation tuned in to watch MJ.

And plenty of adults do too.

never heard of it. thats all i'm saying. ive never heard "you gonna watch lebron tonight?"

 

[Rock Strongo]

Just not true bud

never heard of it. thats all i'm saying. ive never heard "you gonna watch lebron tonight?"

 

[eaglesnut]

I think Kobe's just outside top 10 for most people. Great, great player for sure, but I don't think he could carry a team like LeBron. And Kobe got way too much credit as a defensive player.

Nobody in the world could stop Allen Iverson, but no one guarded him as well as Kobe.

Your last line sounds like bullshit from a hater.

 

[eaglesnut]

never heard of it. thats all i'm saying. ive never heard "you gonna watch lebron tonight?"

No one ever said that shit because Lebron is fucking lame.

 

[Myles]

MJ Kobe Lebron


The answer is Kobe.

 

[eaglesnut]

Yeah, but honestly they are biased.

And Kobe is just simply more beloved than LeBron for a variety of reasons.

There is no legit logical case to rank Kobe ahead of LeBron once you really dig into numbers and data.

Numbers are easy to acquire when teams are built for you. Respect from peers is earned by being the best. That's why Kobe > Lebitch

 

[Rock Strongo]

No one ever said that shit because Lebron is fucking lame.

basically.

 

[tlance]

MJ Kobe Lebron


The answer is Kobe.

See!

Broken down so simple even a 2 year old can understand.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Lebron: 5x All Defensive 1st team, 1x All Defensive 2nd team

Kobe: 12x All Defensive 1st team, 3x All Defensive 2nd team

Ok, I'll give you that one. I didn't think one through.

But LeBron is better...

I know that is quite a few more defensive teams but it doesn't mean Kobe was the better defender, even though 12 - 5 is quite a big difference. Even just from the eye test whether one is better than the other defensively....it was close. I would say Lebron has let off some in the regular season the past couple years, Kobe did it for years too towards the back of his career. I would say peak years, it's close - wouldn't sway one way or the other. I feel if it wasn't for Dwight Howard, Lebron could have 1 or maybe 2 DPOY awards. He was that great in his peak defensively, just like Kobe.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Numbers are easy to acquire when teams are built for you. Respect from peers is earned by being the best. That's why Kobe > Lebitch

When you give a player a nickname like that...it really shows your heavy bias against that player. You are too distraught to have a bias, educated opinion on this topic....funny enough, that is probably how some NBA players think as well.
But in the grand scheme of things, in the real world, Lebron is ALREADY a top 3 player in the world, ahead of Kobe...that is just reality. It doesn't take anything away from Kobe bc he is one of the greatest of all-time and 2nd bes SG of all-time and a winner. But not too many logical thinking people will argue the fact that Lebron > Kobe.

We can have a more serious discussion about a true debate of Lebron passing MJ after he retires IF:

1. Lebron can bring a title to LA (that would be 3 titles for 3 different teams) and/or get a couple more rings.
2. Keep up his high peak into his upper 30's, this could eventually mean transitioning to PF in 3-4 years...I mean if he could be a dominant PF I think that would be icing on the cake.
3. Keep breaking records and passing Kareem in points eventually would be another great milestone.

But that is years down the road...MJ is GOAT in my book right now.

 

[jontaejones]

I know that is quite a few more defensive teams but it doesn't mean Kobe was the better defender, even though 12 - 5 is quite a big difference. Even just from the eye test whether one is better than the other defensively....it was close. I would say Lebron has let off some in the regular season the past couple years, Kobe did it for years too towards the back of his career. I would say peak years, it's close - wouldn't sway one way or the other. I feel if it wasn't for Dwight Howard, Lebron could have 1 or maybe 2 DPOY awards. He was that great in his peak defensively, just like Kobe.

You're right about that. But when I did think about it again, I'll give it to Kobe.

LeBron can play eraser. And LeBron can defend more positions.

But Kobe played role of stopper more. I remember him just smothering Jason Kidd. He was a more aggressive defender, if only because that's how the team used him, but...

It's closer than the 'stats' suggest, but I'll give it Kobe.

 

[Wamu]

wait, you're still playing the "cowherd is opinionated and it makes me angry so i disregard everything he says" trope? lol ok lil guy . . .

Cowturd's a babbling idiot. You two have something in common.

 

[Ojb81]

Cowturd's a babbling idiot. You two have something in common.


View attachment 242449

*squirt*

 

[eaglesnut]

When you give a player a nickname like that...it really shows your heavy bias against that player. You are too distraught to have a bias, educated opinion on this topic....funny enough, that is probably how some NBA players think as well.
But in the grand scheme of things, in the real world, Lebron is ALREADY a top 3 player in the world, ahead of Kobe...that is just reality. It doesn't take anything away from Kobe bc he is one of the greatest of all-time and 2nd bes SG of all-time and a winner. But not too many logical thinking people will argue the fact that Lebron > Kobe.

We can have a more serious discussion about a true debate of Lebron passing MJ after he retires IF:

1. Lebron can bring a title to LA (that would be 3 titles for 3 different teams) and/or get a couple more rings.
2. Keep up his high peak into his upper 30's, this could eventually mean transitioning to PF in 3-4 years...I mean if he could be a dominant PF I think that would be icing on the cake.
3. Keep breaking records and passing Kareem in points eventually would be another great milestone.

But that is years down the road...MJ is GOAT in my book right now.

Lebitch can never touch MJ.

He can show us the security video of one of his crew spray painting the n-word on his gate though. But he doesn't. Another Justin Smollett wanna be bitch. A poor race victim "hunted everyday."

Sandoval told The Associated Press that James wasn't home at the time. She said the property manager told officers it is believed the incident was captured on surveillance video.

What does he have to say about China though? He sucks their dick.

But that has nothing to do with on the court. On the court the guys that played them say Kobe's better.

 

[msgkings322]

Lebitch can never touch MJ.

He can show us the security video of one of his crew spray painting the n-word on his gate though. But he doesn't. Another Justin Smollett wanna be bitch. A poor race victim hunted everyday.

The Brentwood home is not James' primary residence. Sandoval told The Associated Press that James wasn't home at the time. She said the property manager told officers it is believed the incident was captured on surveillance video.

What does he have to say about China though? He sucks their dick.

But that has nothing to do with on the court. On the court the guys that played them say Kobe's better.

Yeah I'm getting sick of those uppity blacks complaining about racism. Slavery ended like 155 years ago, amirite?

 

[Wamu]

Lebitch can never touch MJ.

He can show us the security video of one of his crew spray painting the n-word on his gate though. But he doesn't. Another Justin Smollett wanna be bitch. A poor race victim "hunted everyday."

The Brentwood home is not James' primary residence. Sandoval told The Associated Press that James wasn't home at the time. She said the property manager told officers it is believed the incident was captured on surveillance video.

What does he have to say about China though? He sucks their dick.

But that has nothing to do with on the court. On the court the guys that played them say Kobe's better.

For their careers LeBron averages more pts, rebs, asts, stls, blks, has a better FG % and a better 3 pt %. So how exactly is Kobe better when the stats say otherwise?

 

[rsw626]

I would agree that Kobe is the player who copied MJ the most, but he's not the best player since Jordan.

Right down to copying his number...oh wait. Just teasing.

I'm a Lakers fan and love Kobe, but I wouldn't put him in my Top 5, just inside the Top 10 maybe.

My all time starting 5 would be:

G -Jordan
G- Magic
F - Lebron
F - Bird
C - Kareem