Youkilis, Lahair, Headley

[Illinest]

Pirates Prospects Pirates Have Inquired on Corner Infield Bats

Pirates have inquired about these three, according to Rosenthal.

All three are interesting for different reasons.

-I would prefer that we stay away from Youkilis because I worry that he is done. Normally I'd be all about taking on salary but it's not worth it if he hits .210 and has no power. The casual fans would go gaga over the name value.

-Lahair is risky but seems to have the biggest upside and he also has multiple years of control remaining. Problems: Cubs would be trading him to a team in the division and he's already in his prime years, soon to be past his prime years. I suspect that the 'in-division' premium and his big numbers might make this a non-starter for us.

-Headley - probably the best choice. Headley can play 3B! He is also a switch hitter who is better from the left and he's been wasting his time in a park that decimates LH power numbers. His career away OPS is .150 points higher than his home OPS.


What do the Padres take for Headley? I think Rudy Owens has to be involved. Cole and Taillon are too good for Headley and most of the other guys aren't good enough.

 

[element1286]

I'm not really interested in LaHair.

I like Youkilis, because he wouldn't cost much, or at least shouldn't, and could play 1B/3B. Of course that sounds exactly like McGehee.

Headley is interesting, but it requires an organizational decision with Pedro and third base.

 

[thecrow124]

I'm not really interested in LaHair.

I like Youkilis, because he wouldn't cost much, or at least shouldn't, and could play 1B/3B. Of course that sounds exactly like McGehee.

Headley is interesting, but it requires an organizational decision with Pedro and third base.[/QUOTE]

Not that hard of a decision for me. Lots of things we could do with Pedro, even trading him to open a spot for a productive player. You have to remain openminded about things.

 

[pixburgher66]

Each guy has a positive/negative.

Youk-Could pay off well, wouldn't cost much prospect wise, but has biggest salary, is oldest, merely a rental (which the org. doesn't seem to be after), etc. etc.

LeHair-Under team control longer, putting up decent numbers, Cubs probably looking to move him to get Rizzo up, wouldn't cost too much in a trade, but it is interdivision which may drive up the cost

Headley-Best of the three talent wise, under team control, but highest price tag, and he'd likely be an every day guy, right? Well...who are we moving out of the picture then?


That's my biggest question with the corner infielder acquisition. I could see doing a platoon with Pedro at 3B with someone, but it's getting awful crowded on those corners. Obviously these guys could be an upgrade though. Regardless, we're about 2 weeks at least from any serious trade talks.

 

[Illinest]

Headley can play OF too. He's versatile and would make McGehee redundant.

 

[Etrius24]

Headley has good plate discipline...He has always worked counts and drawn walks... Getting out of SD would help his offensive numbers... He is a decent stick at third base... just average as a third baseman and if you can live with his glove in the outfield he would be productive offensively there as well.

Headley is not that old... I could see him posting OPS totals above .800 for the next three seasons.... worth getting if he is going to play a corner outfield or third base.

Maybe the Pirates go for the Gusto and get Quentin and Headley from the Pirates for one of the better pitching prospects... It might be blasphemy to suggest it..But this team is 5 games over .500... the central is wide open and those two bats would give them a real chance to win the division and make the playoffs.

For that I could consider giving up one of the better arms in the system.

 

[magnumo]

Tim has an interesting column there, and I'm pretty much in agreement. Also agree with element's take..... no on LaHair and maybe on Youk as a placeholder (if he doesn't cost much to acquire).

On Headley, the Pirates would need to decide:
- How will Headley perform going forward? (which may tax NH's talent assessment capability)
- How much will Headley cost to acquire? (not worth top prospects, imo)
- What do they expect from Alvarez going forward? (per element, this is a key)
Based on performance, projections, and salaries, I don't think McGehee or Jones will factor into any decision, one way or another.

 

[Etrius24]

In other years the Cardinals have had Pujols and the best starting pitching in the division... This year Berkman is out... Wainright has been out...Carpenter is gimpy and getting old...

The cubs stink... The Cardinals are depleted...The astros are rebuilding..The Brewers are not playing well... The division is wide Open! The only competition for the division at this point is the Reds...

I am loathe to give up a top arm as much as anyone here.. but ask yourself this... How many times have the Pirates been at or near the top of the division in the middle of june in the last decade? Combine that query with the fact that in other years a couple of other teams in the division have had strong teams...Making it unlikely the Pirates would win the division...

Mags is right we need to look at and ask what role Pedro has going forward... but getting Headley this year does not need to impact that, not really... Adding headley makes Jones Expendable... Adding Quentin makes the outfield offense playable.. Pedro can still play at third base some... maybe some first base... He is not playing everyday right now anyways... If his walk rate continues to improve and he gets more consistent at the plate he will force his way into the lineup be it at first or third... But in the meantime Headley can play third... and Quentin can play next to McCutchen in the outfield...

I do not think Headley alone is worth a top pitching prospect...I also do not think Headley alone is enough offense to make this team worthy of a pennant drive...Which is why I included Quentin in this equation... The pair of them gives the Pirates what they need... another guy to get on base at the top of the lineup... and another guy to hit after McCutchen to drive runners in...

The bullpen is deep and pitching well... The Rotation is solid with 3 quality starters at the top... If ever there was a year to go for it....THIS MAY WELL BE IT

And for making the playoffs.. for the excitement of a pennant chase...I can justify trading a top pitching prospect.

 

[sychmd]

we dont need to trade one of our top 3 for headley and quentin.
give them a number of midling prospects blended with one or two replacement major leaguers.
many mlb trades the last several years have rarely offered up much to get big players, let alone who we are talking about getting. give them quanity, not really any of the top 8 of our prospects.

 

[Etrius24]

Hey I would love to hold onto all of the top prospects... But headley is a quality player... and Quentin is a power bat... not elite.. but not dogfood either... If the Pirates wanted these two players from the Padres I would think they would have to give up one of their better prospects... To say nobody on the pirates top 8 prospect list is a bit overprotective in my opinion... You are just not going to get something for nothing. I am not saying you give up Tallion or Cole... But you would have to give up something of Value... Jones and a A ball reliever is not going to cut it...

And regarding Lahair... I would take him with open arms.. but the asking price would have to be lowish... He does not have a proven track record... this season might be a blip on the radar and then he returns to AAAA status... So as long as he was cheap I would grab him and let the kid play first base.... It would make Jones expendable.... But Jones' time with the bucs probably needs to come to an end anyways.

 

[sychmd]

look at the trades that have happened in the last couple years, and most of the "stars" that are traded come a lot cheaper than people anticipate.
give teams reasonable prospects and quantity that they can have locked up for a number of years and they will be satisfied.
headley not an allstar. could be a decent role player. wouldnt give up a potential star.
quentin, still hasnt played a full injury free season, could be an allstar if he was healthy, will be more expensive. maybe just taking on his salary and offering quantity will get the job done.

 

[Etrius24]

Headley well could be an all star if he got out of San Diego! Someone else here mentioned his OPS splits... His OPS is 150+ points better away from the pitcher friendly park.... And his total offensive numbers are still good enough to make him the second best bat on the Pirates after McCutchen.... How many bats on the Bucs can post a OPS above .800? How many draw walks and hit doubles like Headley?

I am not saying the guy is a hall of fame player... but he would be the second best player on the team.... To think you are getting a youngish player of that calipre for a couple of nothing prospects is... VERY optimistic.

 

[sychmd]

I am certainly advocating pursuing him, but give them decent quantity of people with some years of control. headley does not demand our prime guys. i would consider any of our AAA(owens would be a straight up with one lower tier guy like lambo) pitchers as well as the MLB pen or corner platooners. give them 4 or 5 guys between 23-26 that have a chance to contribute to them soon.

 

[Etrius24]

I would love it if the Padres cut him loose for 3 lesser players... I am not sure it is possible...

Consider Headley's splits...He is hitting .304 on the road with a OPS of 963! He is on pace for over 100 walks... The guy is certainly an upgrade over anything we have at third base.. First base or right field...

I just don't think it is possible to get him for three whatever prospects... If they can pull it off... I am all for it.

 

[sychmd]

how would jones, gorkys, hague, and wilson/morris, and rojas. they need many parts to start to replenish their system.
they just left bell and latos go for not a whole lot.

 

[Etrius24]

I just do not see anyone wanting and giving anything in return for Jones.. If Jones made league minimum he would be a worthwhile bench platoon player for a contending team.....

Gorkys is a spare part...we took him on trade but the kid really has no stick...He can run a little.. but he has zero power....And we have McCutchen...So there is zero chance his flimsy batting average will stick in left field for the bucs..

So the first two on the list are basically worthless

Just because you offer 5 players it does not make the offer any better...

 

[sychmd]

some are worthless or expendable to us, doesnt mean they arent useful and cheap parts for someone else.

if headley was so valuable and SD had a firesale last year, they knew they werent competing this year, why didnt they take one of the overwhelming offers that must have been on the table by other teams in greater need with better to offer bait. so many of them needed a bat and there werent that many free agents to choose from. why wouldnt they make a good offer, esp with these favorable splits and put him in a hitters park.

why? because nobody really offered much because he isnt that high of a value to other teams and doesnt warrant that much in return.
what he did as a 25 and 26 yo isnt as good as what pedro will do this year.
your right, her has improved, he is 28, not young but not old.
he is making 3.4 and that will go up to 5.5 -7.0 with his present numbers.
is that worth it. and why would we give up too much for someone they are probably looking to salary dump soon anyways, unless he really breaks out with start numbers.

also, how many more years of arb does he have or how long is he under control?
again, hate to give up much for one or two years.

 

[Illinest]

I can only read half of the conversation here but I think that Chase Headley compares to Neil Walker in a lot of ways.
They both have similar defensive value, they both debuted at 23 w/ their first full season at 24. They have similar career OPS right down to similar OBP and SLG figures as well. They're both switch-hitters.

 

[sychmd]

I can only read half of the conversation here but I think that Chase Headley compares to Neil Walker in a lot of ways.
They both have similar defensive value, they both debuted at 23 w/ their first full season at 24. They have similar career OPS right down to similar OBP and SLG figures as well. They're both switch-hitters.

good point, maybe headley draws more walks and has more HR potential, and he would be an upgrade, but we shouldnt overpay, with one of our top prospects.

 

[Etrius24]

Headley also has 150+ points of OPS outside of San Diego... This is something that is consistent over the last 4 years... So it is not a one season fluke... get him out of SD and his numbers will go up across the board...

He is quite a bit better than Walker IMHO... partially because he walks twice as much..Partially because he has a tick more power

I expect Headley to have 20+ homeruns and 100+ walks this season... Very hard to find someone that can bring these things to a team... Of Course he is nowhere near as valuable as McCutchen... but if he was on the bucs with a .850 OPS hitting homeruns and getting on base... He would be a key part of this offense and this team.

Alone I would not give up a top prospect for Headley....I say that because Headley by himself is not enough to get the Bucs into the post season...I suggested a trade where the bucs got Quentin also... Combined there is enough offensive upgrade to make it a good possibility they get into the post season... And for that I would think you might give up one of your better prospects.