Would you???

[filosofy29]

Trade Heatley straight up for Ryan Smyth? Why? Why not?

 

[MrFlyingV]

No. Smyth is older, slow, and a bit fragile in the past few years. I really think he is past his prime at this point.

 

[LivinLegend22]

I wouldn't because it doesn't save the sharks much cap room, I think and I may be wrong but it would be about a million a year and Smyth's contract is only a year shorter than Heatley's. I think if they were to trade Heatley they could get a package of picks or prospects that would better help the sharks in the future. Smyth is having a good year and is good in front of the net and always plays hard, but straight up i wouldn't do this deal simply because Smyth's best days are behind him and IMO you could get better value for Heatley even if his 50 goal days are over.

 

[Destroydacre]

No. Even though we know better because we see him every game, Heatley is still a "big name." Some idiot GM would be willing to give up something valuable for him.


Of course I really doubt that Wilson has any intentions of trading Heatley.

 

[sjrules99]

Still not sure why Heater is so unpopular here...

He was the #1 star and took the sharks out of thier slump on saturday and until the late goal by phoenix, he would have had the GWG in both games. His tip vs. STL to win it was a thing of beauty that few sharks, if any, could have done.

Heater has struggled some, but he's still tied for the team lead in points, 2nd in goals, and is only -1 despite his defensive struggles compared to patty's -19, jumbo's -13, pavs' -14, and seto's -15.

Heater may not score 50 again, but 40 remains still quite possible if he gets hot, and in the sharks history, they have only had 3 40 goal seasons (one patty, one nolan, one cheech). heater is arguably the greatest goal scoring threat in sharks history. I wouldn't deal him for smyth or anyone who is not a bona fide #1 Dman or named crosby, ovechkin....

Last PO's (his only year in SJ), he was disappointing, no question. However, theoretically, he was pretty injured, so a healthy heatley is worth the money.

Patty for 7M? well, that's another story.... Maybe, just maybe, he'll hit 30 goals, 60 points and wont lead the entire league in worst +/-... Now there's a good investment.

 

[filosofy29]

Still not sure why Heater is so unpopular here...

He was the #1 star and took the sharks out of thier slump on saturday and until the late goal by phoenix, he would have had the GWG in both games. His tip vs. STL to win it was a thing of beauty that few sharks, if any, could have done.

Heater has struggled some, but he's still tied for the team lead in points, 2nd in goals, and is only -1 despite his defensive struggles compared to patty's -19, jumbo's -13, pavs' -14, and seto's -15.

Heater may not score 50 again, but 40 remains still quite possible if he gets hot, and in the sharks history, they have only had 3 40 goal seasons (one patty, one nolan, one cheech). heater is arguably the greatest goal scoring threat in sharks history. I wouldn't deal him for smyth or anyone who is not a bona fide #1 Dman or named crosby, ovechkin....

Last PO's (his only year in SJ), he was disappointing, no question. However, theoretically, he was pretty injured, so a healthy heatley is worth the money.

Patty for 7M? well, that's another story.... Maybe, just maybe, he'll hit 30 goals, 60 points and wont lead the entire league in worst +/-... Now there's a good investment.

Because I don't feel he's a 50 goal scorer anymore plain and simple. He barely got 40 last year playing on the team Canada line. He's a 1 dimensional, defensive black hole, with no work ethic. Factor in that he's gonna be paid $7.5mil for 3 more seasons after this one and I'm worried that by the end of his contract he'll be a 30+ goal scorer who's slower and less effective.I'd really love to watch a game with you because we see 2 different Dany Heatleys. I wish I saw the one you do.

As for Marleau, he's got a more restrictive NMC than Heatley does. He also still is a great skater who can kill penalties. We're just stuck with Patty.

Hell if it were up to me, I'd trade all of the top 3.

Also, Heatley hasn't been the best player on the ice for the Sharks once this season. He's a floater.

 

[sjrules99]

i see the heater downsides... don't get me wrong, I don't love the guy. He is so weak on the boards in the defensive zone that it pains me. If the pucks comes around the boards to his wing, 9 times out of 10 the opposition dman wins the battle and keeps in it. I don't think heater is perfect. I don't think he is the complete player.

that said, I still think he is one of the best goal scorers in the league. You make 40 goals sound pretty flippant, but that's pretty darn good. Not a lot of guys put up 40 a year regularly and I think heater adds a threat that the sharks lacked, particularly in the POs. We see his all-around game as lacking, and I agree there, but I think his offensive ability and finishing ability make that trade-off worthwhile. When he gets hot, he's pretty unstoppable. Also, I think he would do better if Jumbo wasnt so one-dimensional and he had a respactable D. Heater makes a living on tips and garbage goals and using his size and strength in front. Jumbo doesnt shoot and the D cant get shots through, so heater doesnt get tips or garbage. That is why I think he did better with spezza and alfie who both can pass and score as well as having guys like redden and meszaros on the points. . Jumbo has not had a 30 goal season since 2002-3 with boston, so his one-dimensional nature hurts a guy like heater who needs his linemates to threaten as well.

If dougie moved heater for a #1 Dman who was signed to a good deal long term, then I would definitely not complain. That said, I think of the big 3, clearly patty would be the one to move (assuming that was possible and easy). I am pretty much sure than none of those 3 are going anywhere though.

Lastly, the sharks did make it the furthest in the PO's since the lockout in heater's first year. Not saying he was the reason, but then again, who knows. if they make it to the PO's this year and go deep again...

 

[rares]

That said, I think of the big 3, clearly patty would be the one to move (assuming that was possible and easy). I am pretty much sure than none of those 3 are going anywhere though.

You got one thing right for sure... Marleau would be the best one to trade because he'd be the one that most teams would want. So you'd get the most in return.

I'm pretty sure, of the 3, most NHL GMs would quickly say "fuck no" to Heatley and, to a lesser degree, Thornton... when you consider how much they get paid and what they (don't) bring.

 

[sjrules99]

Heater maybe, jumbo? no way. Most GM's would drool for the chance to get jumbo for 7M. 100 point players are extremely rare, and sure jumbo is having an off year, but his value would be huge particularly to non-PO teams like toronto, ottawa, calgary...

Doesnt matter anyways cuz none are going anyways...

 

[Destroydacre]

Heater maybe, jumbo? no way. Most GM's would drool for the chance to get jumbo for 7M. 100 point players are extremely rare, and sure jumbo is having an off year, but his value would be huge particularly to non-PO teams like toronto, ottawa, calgary...

Doesnt matter anyways cuz none are going anyways...

Thornton hasn't hit 100 points since 2007 and his point totals seem to be steadily decreasing. He's on pace for just 75 this season.

I understand what you're saying, but when people talk about Heatley and Thornton you think of their 50 goal and 125 point seasons from 2006, but they just haven't produced like that for a few seasons now. They're still very talented on offense, but they're not the elites anymore. Now whether that's from deteriorating skill-set or lack of work ethic it's hard to say with absolute certainty, although with Jumbo Jim only being 31 and Heatley being 30, I'd say it's probably more of the latter.

The reason it's been so bad this year is because to go along with their lackadaisical effort, they pretty much quit back checking completely. So you have two guys getting. $14.5M (over 20% of the cap) who are being equaled by Matt Duchene and Dustin Bufflin in points and aren't bothering to play a lick of defense. That's just not gonna cut it, except in Doug Wilson's fantasy world that he's been living in since July. Unfortunately I agree with you that Wilson will not move, and is not even entertaining the idea of moving any of the top 3. So the Sharks will continue to go as they go, which so far this season has been not at all.

 

[rares]

Heater maybe, jumbo? no way. Most GM's would drool for the chance to get jumbo for 7M. 100 point players are extremely rare, and sure jumbo is having an off year, but his value would be huge particularly to non-PO teams like toronto, ottawa, calgary...

Doesnt matter anyways cuz none are going anyways...

Neither Thornton nor Heatley play any defense, they can't play on the PK, etc.

Sure they're nice one-dimensional players (with Thornton being largely more useful than Heatley to any team out there, IMO), but you're getting much more bang for your buck with Marleau...

But anyway, I'm biased (and so are you) and it's just opinions anyway so I'll let it go..

 

[SJVP408]

I know Heatley is one dimensional but that dimension is world class and is very hard to do. There are plenty of guys that play defense, body check, skate fast, but there are only a handful of guys in the world that can score goals like Heater.

The one good thing about this trade is that Smyth's contract is off the books after the 11-12 season whereas Heater's runs to the end of 13-14. If Heater's lack of defense is a problem for the team he is on, then it should be addressed with other players (better defenders). You live with the lack of defense from him for what he brings offensively. Since the Sharks are not rebuilding yet, I wouldn't do this trade because in 2 years, Heater should still be a great goal scorer whereas Smyth will be a good 3rd liner. If the Sharks are still playoff contenders, Heater will do better for this team.

I'm not saying the Sharks shouldn't trade Heater, but if the Sharks did, I'd want more than one solid asset coming back, not another highly paid forward.

Filo: Here's a question for ya. Would you package Couture in a deal for Weber? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but it does fall in line with "Would you?"

 

[SharkFan0720]

Still not sure why Heater is so unpopular here...

He was the #1 star and took the sharks out of thier slump on saturday and until the late goal by phoenix, he would have had the GWG in both games. His tip vs. STL to win it was a thing of beauty that few sharks, if any, could have done.

Heater has struggled some, but he's still tied for the team lead in points, 2nd in goals, and is only -1 despite his defensive struggles compared to patty's -19, jumbo's -13, pavs' -14, and seto's -15.

Heater may not score 50 again, but 40 remains still quite possible if he gets hot, and in the sharks history, they have only had 3 40 goal seasons (one patty, one nolan, one cheech). heater is arguably the greatest goal scoring threat in sharks history. I wouldn't deal him for smyth or anyone who is not a bona fide #1 Dman or named crosby, ovechkin....

Last PO's (his only year in SJ), he was disappointing, no question. However, theoretically, he was pretty injured, so a healthy heatley is worth the money.

Patty for 7M? well, that's another story.... Maybe, just maybe, he'll hit 30 goals, 60 points and wont lead the entire league in worst +/-... Now there's a good investment.

Rules,

Watch him in his own end, then you will see why hes so unpopular.

 

[sjrules99]

Neither Thornton nor Heatley play any defense, they can't play on the PK, etc.

Sure they're nice one-dimensional players (with Thornton being largely more useful than Heatley to any team out there, IMO), but you're getting much more bang for your buck with Marleau...

But anyway, I'm biased (and so are you) and it's just opinions anyway so I'll let it go..

I do understand you and I havent been pleased with their defensive play either. that said, they have both played regular shifts on the PK and heater is right up there in +/- among the forwards so even if his defense is so bad, he is at least contributing enough offensively to make up for it. Only the 2nd lin of clowe-couture-ferriero had a better +/- (and nichol and mayers in their sub 10 mins of ice).

however, the heater trade was done to win a cup. So far, they went to the WCF then got blown out, so the trade hasnt provided yet. The proof will be in the PO's assuming the sharks get there and get at least 1 more NHLer on their blueline (as opposed to wallin who wouldnt qualify in the A).

 

[sjrules99]

Rules,

Watch him in his own end, then you will see why hes so unpopular.

I have, and I do understand. He's not a complete player and I do understand the wrath toward him. And, if he's not scoring goals, he's completely useless, as opposed to other guys who bring a much more complete game. I do get it, I just think that when he is scoring goals, he is worth the defensive drawbacks (as we've seen the last two games).

hopefully he'll get hot and then everyone will remember that he is one of the top goal scorers in the NHL and forget that he isnt gunna win a selke anytime soon.

 

[SharkFan0720]

I really want to like Heatley, but he just makes mistakes that are a lack of concentration and detail to the game. I sometimes feel like he doesnt think his job is to back check and defend in his own zone. Its hard to win cups with guys who only play on one side of the ice. I can totally accept mistakes that are a lack of ability, but his mistakes are a lack of concentration and willingness to do the dirty work. I guess Im just more of a defensive minded hockey fan. I appreciate good defense over good offense every day of the week. Heatley and Marleau for Chara jk lol. The guy is putting up hat tricks now.

 

[Cbrower91]

I have, and I do understand. He's not a complete player and I do understand the wrath toward him. And, if he's not scoring goals, he's completely useless, as opposed to other guys who bring a much more complete game. I do get it, I just think that when he is scoring goals, he is worth the defensive drawbacks (as we've seen the last two games).

hopefully he'll get hot and then everyone will remember that he is one of the top goal scorers in the NHL and forget that he isnt gunna win a selke anytime soon.

He's unpopular because he dog's it alot, and i mean alot. He makes Joe Thornton look like a hardworker with speed to burn,he dog's it so bad.

And it's not just the defensive zone he does it in either, he dog's it in the offensive zone unless its a clear cut break away.

 

[filosofy29]

I know Heatley is one dimensional but that dimension is world class and is very hard to do. There are plenty of guys that play defense, body check, skate fast, but there are only a handful of guys in the world that can score goals like Heater.

The one good thing about this trade is that Smyth's contract is off the books after the 11-12 season whereas Heater's runs to the end of 13-14. If Heater's lack of defense is a problem for the team he is on, then it should be addressed with other players (better defenders). You live with the lack of defense from him for what he brings offensively. Since the Sharks are not rebuilding yet, I wouldn't do this trade because in 2 years, Heater should still be a great goal scorer whereas Smyth will be a good 3rd liner. If the Sharks are still playoff contenders, Heater will do better for this team.

I'm not saying the Sharks shouldn't trade Heater, but if the Sharks did, I'd want more than one solid asset coming back, not another highly paid forward.

Filo: Here's a question for ya. Would you package Couture in a deal for Weber? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but it does fall in line with "Would you?"

Ya, I agree, I was just talking to a buddy (who is a Kings fan) about jokingly trading Heatley for Smyth.....that's how tired I was of watching Heatley (I was frustrated, lol). The main thing for me is that I'm truly getting afraid that Heatley is going to continue having struggles scoring due to his lack of foot speed and skating ability. Throw in a bad work ethic and that's a whole lotta dough to be paying a huge liability. Smyth's leadership, work ethic, the idea that I think his game might line up well with Thornton's and the fact that his contract runs out after next season had me just playing devils advocate. You're right though, it would be too little of return for a guy of Heatley's caliber.....that said, I'm not sure of what type of package the Sharks could get for a guy like Heatley anymore.

As for the bold above, yes and no. If the Sharks didn't have so much money tied up in Boyle, Heatley, Thornton and Marleau, I would in an instant. However, if DWil is not gonna trade one of the Big 3 lazy forwards, it would severely hamper the Sharks payroll and depth by trading away a young, scoring forward with a good all around game. Factor in that Weber isn't even signed for next season and it gets scarier. I love Weber, him and Ryan Miller are my two favorite players in the NHL.....I'm just not holding my breath on either of them being Sharks anytime soon

EDIT: And don't apologize dude, it wasn't a threadjack.