with the out 0 & 2, will they strike out?

[Likewall32]

First pitch, swing & a miss, DWil stays, strike 1... Pitcher waits for the signal and delivers... Strike 2, TMac stays... Looking at an 0 & 2 count so far, will they hit a homer by making some great deals? or strike out by making more stupid deals and/or stand pat with the same cruddy product??

If they stood pat on these to, im guessing they will keep doing the same shit theyve been doing. No big signings, marleau stays, everyone we want gone stays, Handuez isnt bought out or buried. add more unproductive 4th liners.

Only roster move they are probably gonna make is that damn Nash trade thats been hovering over us all. and if thats made, thats also strike 3 - your out SJ...

 

[MrChangoT97]

Doug has got to go for it all this offseason!

If that means trading for Nash, signing Suter until he's 100yrs old then so be it. This will be our last year to be considered a contender. Doug needs to get the right players at the right price to make up the rest of the roster. "But please don't feed us that bullshit about letting our rookies compete for a roster spot!" That fucking shit is done, like burnt cake!

 

[SJVP408]

Doug has got to go for it all this offseason!

If that means trading for Nash, signing Suter until he's 100yrs old then so be it. This will be our last year to be considered a contender. Doug needs to get the right players at the right price to make up the rest of the roster. "But please don't feed us that bullshit about letting our rookies compete for a roster spot!" That fucking shit is done, like burnt cake!

Dammit who the hell repped you? You have 667 now. Might as well rep you now for all the times I felt like repping you but decided not to do it because you were on 666.

 

[Cbrower91]

If he doesnt deal either Pavelski or Clowe for some speed and skill its a failure

 

[Likewall32]

If he doesnt deal either Pavelski or Clowe for some speed and skill its a failure

Pavs puts up the same numbers as a 7mil Nash and is no where near the cap hit. Pavs should be a part of this roster, slow or not, he can get it done (most of the time) he's a great 2nd/3rd line center. If SJ can get some decent talent on the 3rd line and put him there, they will finally have that 3rd line theyve been missing since Ricci left the team. Clowe on the other hand ive never been high on. Bult like a talented power forward, but plays like he's a powder puff playmaker. He can be delt, but you prob wont get anything of value in return.

 

[sjrules99]

If he doesnt deal either Pavelski or Clowe for some speed and skill its a failure

First, DW stays = +1. Tmac stays = OK IF they bring an assistant with A+ PK credentials.

depending on the return, anyone the entire forward crew, with the exception of cooch and jumbo, is expendable. Hell even jumbo for an obscene deal would be OK, though I like what I have seen from him the last 2 years mostly, so I feel he is worth 7M, even at his age.

Havlat is probably one of the best value guys among the forwards when he's healthy, which is just too rare, and pavs is very cheap compared to his production, but does struggle with faster teams, especially big and fast which can both outskate and outmuscle him. However, I like the other aspects of his game, so I would try to keep him.

Clowe and marleau are two in the top 6 that I would hope are gone, particulary with a good young return. Also, any of the bottom 6 are fine to go too, especially zues, of course. On D, they gotta get rid of murray. I love the big hits as much as anyone, but he is just so so so slow and so bad on the other half of the ice, that his 2.5M is burning a hole in the sharks' cap.

A successful offseason to me unloads murray and zues, brings a top notch Assistant coach to run the PK, brings in at least 1 young top 6 forward and a young top 4 Dman, all without trading good picks or prospects. It can be done if dougie parlays nemo, clowe, and patty into those kind of players.

 

[sjrules99]

What I expect in all realism is nemo+clowe+1st for nash. I will not be too pleased with it, but that's whats coming. If this is the only major deal over the summer, I'll be devastated.

Oh, and they need a 3rd line too. No scoring depth=no chance in hell.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

What I expect in all realism is nemo+clowe+1st for nash. I will not be too pleased with it, but that's whats coming. If this is the only major deal over the summer, I'll be devastated.

Oh, and they need a 3rd line too. No scoring depth=no chance in hell.

If Wilson could pull off that deal it would be a steal for the Sharks but you're most likely going to have to swap Clowe for Pavelski.

 

[MrChangoT97]

Would you like to see Doug run the tables with

Stalock & Griess in net, "if" he could some how sign Suter & Stuart, and letting Murray, Demers/Braun, Vandermeer, White go?

I would be happy!

 

[Cbrower91]

Nope, I like both goalies but that would be a horrible idea

 

[23sharks]

Pavs puts up the same numbers as a 7mil Nash and is no where near the cap hit. Pavs should be a part of this roster, slow or not, he can get it done (most of the time) he's a great 2nd/3rd line center. If SJ can get some decent talent on the 3rd line and put him there, they will finally have that 3rd line theyve been missing since Ricci left the team. Clowe on the other hand ive never been high on. Bult like a talented power forward, but plays like he's a powder puff playmaker. He can be delt, but you prob wont get anything of value in return.

Totally agree with you. Trading Pavelski is not a good move. Clowe is the guy I see them moving, if they do anything big.

 

[Cbrower91]

Pavelski has peaked he is not going to get any better or faster, he is just going to get slower and produce less. Books out on him, get physical on him and he shrinks and goes away.

I like what he does he's like Rudy, but just like Rudy sentiment isn't going to get it done on the ice

 

[Likewall32]

Pavelski has peaked he is not going to get any better or faster, he is just going to get slower and produce less. Books out on him, get physical on him and he shrinks and goes away.

I like what he does he's like Rudy, but just like Rudy sentiment isn't going to get it done on the ice

Who cares if he's topped out. His numbers are perfectly fine. Whats Nash's excuse for putting out the same numbers while being faster & making $4mil more?? Speed doesnt = points. Mitchell is fast and sucks. Thornton plays very slow and buts up numbers... The whole speed arguement people always put up is stupid. Just caue your fast does not mean your good, just cause your slow does not mean your bad... Im fast as shit im skates, but im absolutely terrible playing forward. His numbers have been roughly the same the past 4 years in the 60pt area. to say he's gonna just get slower & produce less is also pretty dumb to say, because every single player in the NHL will will get slower & produce less. I dont see his numbers taking a huge nosedive like, say, marleaus have -- who is one of the fastest guys around. Meanwhile in the world of reality, that slow shrimp whos numbers will keep going down put up only 3 pts less then speedster marleau, while playing less minutes. Pavs does what he does and plays his role well. you know what your gonna get each season and I dont see any of the other 29 teams not wanting him on the roster. Seems only SJ fans bag on him .
What other 3rd line C's out there would you perfer to have?

 

[SJVP408]

Who cares if he's topped out. His numbers are perfectly fine. Whats Nash's excuse for putting out the same numbers while being faster & making $4mil more?? Speed doesnt = points. Mitchell is fast and sucks. Thornton plays very slow and buts up numbers... The whole speed arguement people always put up is stupid. Just caue your fast does not mean your good, just cause your slow does not mean your bad... Im fast as shit im skates, but im absolutely terrible playing forward. His numbers have been roughly the same the past 4 years in the 60pt area. to say he's gonna just get slower & produce less is also pretty dumb to say, because every single player in the NHL will will get slower & produce less. I dont see his numbers taking a huge nosedive like, say, marleaus have -- who is one of the fastest guys around. Meanwhile in the world of reality, that slow shrimp whos numbers will keep going down put up only 3 pts less then speedster marleau, while playing less minutes. Pavs does what he does and plays his role well. you know what your gonna get each season and I dont see any of the other 29 teams not wanting him on the roster. Seems only SJ fans bag on him .
What other 3rd line C's out there would you perfer to have?

I agree with that and Mitchell is a good example. I don't think anyone wants to get faster while subtracting too much skill. If Doug does decide to use Pavs as trade bait, he should get a lot in return. I'd like a young skilled forward plus futures in return, at least. Something like Stafford or Pacioretty. Still, Pavs isn't part of the problem.

 

[Cbrower91]

Who cares if he's topped out. His numbers are perfectly fine. Whats Nash's excuse for putting out the same numbers while being faster & making $4mil more?? Speed doesnt = points. Mitchell is fast and sucks. Thornton plays very slow and buts up numbers... The whole speed arguement people always put up is stupid. Just caue your fast does not mean your good, just cause your slow does not mean your bad... Im fast as shit im skates, but im absolutely terrible playing forward. His numbers have been roughly the same the past 4 years in the 60pt area. to say he's gonna just get slower & produce less is also pretty dumb to say, because every single player in the NHL will will get slower & produce less. I dont see his numbers taking a huge nosedive like, say, marleaus have -- who is one of the fastest guys around. Meanwhile in the world of reality, that slow shrimp whos numbers will keep going down put up only 3 pts less then speedster marleau, while playing less minutes. Pavs does what he does and plays his role well. you know what your gonna get each season and I dont see any of the other 29 teams not wanting him on the roster. Seems only SJ fans bag on him .
What other 3rd line C's out there would you perfer to have?

Your reading comprehension skills are worse then my cats. Speed and SKILL not just speed.

 

[Likewall32]

Your reading comprehension skills are worse then my cats. Speed and SKILL not just speed.

But stiil, what other 3rd line center in the NHL would you perfer over him, that can hit 25-30 goals at that price?? In the "new" NHL, most 30 goal guys command rediculous salarys that they do not deserve. And also with my point, his lack of speed does not hinder his skill as shown year ater year. Of all the problems on the roster, Pavelski along with Logan are the least of my worries. You have to keep SOME core and Pavs is a keeper. Yes he can net you something in return, but is the return worth it? In a heads up trade you probably arent going to get equal value with someone you KNOW is gonna put up the 25-30, and can play 2nd & 3rd line C. In a package deal to get the good return, you are creating another hole on a team filled with holes. Not to mention I like his attitude, and he actually seems to give a shit when they lose. He may shit the bed sometimes, but at least he cares. Unlike guys like Marleau who shits the bed & looks like he is staring at imaginary butterflies on the ice, then doesnt give a damn about it.

Focus on the getting rid of the problems on the team. Pavs is not one of the problems. But then again, like the thread is titled, they kept 2 of the problems in Dwil & TMac, so they will probably get rid of the players that should stay. Call me Mr. Negative, but I know this offseason is going to be AWFUL.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

That depends on what you believe the problems are with the team.

For example my take is they have too many forwards who rely on the dump and grind, low cylcle game, to produce offense. The team as gotten way, way, way too dependent on this type of game to produce there offense both through player skill set and team system. The low cycle should be the secondary means of offense. They need to move away from this style of game to one where their primary offense is coming from transition rushes and controlled enteries into the zone with speed. In this style of game skill sets like speed, agility, puck control, and stick handling are a necessity all of which are not strong points for Pavelski.

That doesn't mean Pavelski would be completely useless playing that type of game. With the right linemates he'd certainly still be productive but at the same time if you can flip him for someone who excels in the transition style game it's something that must be considered.

 

[caliraftdude]

Not that I completely disagree - but LA seems to be doing very well with Daryl's dump/grind/low cycle/monster fore-check/aggressive penalty kill scheme...

My only gripe on getting rid of guys is what we are getting in return. The last time we resigned Patty was a great example - no doubt there are some holes in his game, but he does produce about as much as Cooch does... so if you replace him - what are you getting? Same for Pavs.

I am more in the "what do you put around him" camp.. Ricci was NOT known for his blazing speed up the middle but that Ricci-Sunny-Thornton line was money for a few years and the equivalent now days would be huge.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Not that I completely disagree - but LA seems to be doing very well with Daryl's dump/grind/low cycle/monster fore-check/aggressive penalty kill scheme...

My only gripe on getting rid of guys is what we are getting in return. The last time we resigned Patty was a great example - no doubt there are some holes in his game, but he does produce about as much as Cooch does... so if you replace him - what are you getting? Same for Pavs.

I am more in the "what do you put around him" camp.. Ricci was NOT known for his blazing speed up the middle but that Ricci-Sunny-Thornton line was money for a few years and the equivalent now days would be huge.

That's not the game LA is playing though at even strength. Their primary offensive oppertunities are coming off transition. They do play the cycle game extremely well and produce quite a bit from that but that cycle game is an extention of being able to enter the zone with control. Very little comes through a chip and chase style like the Sharks use.

The Ricci-Sunny-Thronton line also played in a clutch and grab atmosphere where speed was not much of a necessity. IMO Pavelski in the post lockout NHL doesn't compare to any on that pre lockout line.

I completely understand the concern about what the return would be. That is why I only advicate moving him for someone of relitively the same age or younger who excels in the system the team chooses to impliment.

 

[Likewall32]

That's not the game LA is playing though at even strength. Their primary offensive oppertunities are coming off transition. They do play the cycle game extremely well and produce quite a bit from that but that cycle game is an extention of being able to enter the zone with control. Very little comes through a chip and chase style like the Sharks use.

The Ricci-Sunny-Thronton line also played in a clutch and grab atmosphere where speed was not much of a necessity. IMO Pavelski in the post lockout NHL doesn't compare to any on that pre lockout line.

I completely understand the concern about what the return would be. That is why I only advicate moving him for someone of relitively the same age or younger who excels in the system the team chooses to impliment.

Cmon, I know you tend to stayaway from picking sides in an arguement (which is pretty much my bggest aggravation towards you) and would rather point out the +'s and -'s of the arguement and stay neutral, but for real man. Pick a damn side and dont play neutral party on this. You can have speed & entry up front and a dif gameplan for the other lines. What ever happened to different roles for differnt lines?? I understand that the players in the new NHL are pretty much retarded, but are the coaches that retarded to that you cannot have mulitiple strategys for each line now a days?? If the first 2 lines want speed on entry, why cant the 3rd line do something different? Anyway the point is, not matter what lines, what TOI, what strat you give him Pavs has produced the same numbers, the past 4 years. And hasnt been a problem... Every player takes days off, when Pavs takes a day off it isnt as big an impact as when their 7mil top line guys take one off. And the only consistant arguement against him is he's short, small and slow. Well if that short small slow guy can avg the same 50-60 per year and show emotion and get mad, why the fuck does everyone want to dump him so bad? the guy does pretty much everything everyone bitches about the team not doing. he scores, he can be clutch, he's cheap, he gets mad, he can play on mulitpe lines... It honestly baffles my mind on WHAT THE FUCK do you guys on this board want? Cause I look at Pavs as "THAT GUY" that I want on my team... I often wonder how many people on here that post and bitch have actually played competitive hockey before. and that can even include mens league Gold division...
Anyway i got off topic. Cmon, I want you to say YOUR actual opinion as if YOU were the coach, using mulitple strategys for each line. Dont play devils advocate & safe zone neutral party. If you were in charge, what would your 3rd line strat include, and if it doesnt include Pavs centering it, who would be, and what would you want your 3rd line to do?? For me, 3rd line does not equal speed, pretty hockey... Remember last season everyone was saying how fast Vanc's 3rd line is and thats why SJ lost... what has Vancs 3rd line speed EVER done for them in terms of ultimate goal?? NOTHING, and the teams success has been evern less then SJ's in terms of postseason