Why isn't Von Miller signed yet?

[CEH]

Just curious.

Ring of Famer (Von is in if John Lynch is) , on the path to Hall of Famer (see Strahan) .

All the other studs from 2011 are locked up long term. Even 2012 studs starting to be locked up.

Von is already one year behind the others having to play his rookie contract out. Most likely due to being in drug program couple years ago.

Is the issue on management's side or the player' s side? or is this Denver's standard operating procedure. They did the deadline thing last year with DT. Others like Wolfe and Harris signed early but with what is perceived as a home town discount.

Is Von's past still an issue to Elway?

Is Denver a Super Bowl contender this year with a happy highly paid Von ? Are they one still without Von?

Can a 1st and 3rd compensate for the lost of Von if it comes to that?

There has to be a win win for everyone one here right?

In this case, I side a little more with Von than trust in Elway. Pay the man. Others may trust Elway or the franchise more which is fine.

July 15th is coming fast and talks have broken off for the time being.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Just curious.

Ring of Famer (Von is in if John Lynch is) , on the path to Hall of Famer (see Strahan) .

All the other studs from 2011 are locked up long term. Even 2012 studs starting to be locked up.

Von is already one year behind the others having to play his rookie contract out. Most likely due to being in drug program couple years ago.

Is the issue on management's side or the player' s side? or is this Denver's standard operating procedure. They did the deadline thing last year with DT. Others like Wolfe and Harris signed early but with what is perceived as a home town discount.

Is Von's past still an issue to Elway?

Is Denver a Super Bowl contender this year with a happy highly paid Von ? Are they one still without Von?

Can a 1st and 3rd compensate for the lost of Von if it comes to that?

There has to be a win win for everyone one here right?

In this case, I side a little more with Von than trust in Elway. Pay the man. Others may trust Elway or the franchise more which is fine.

July 15th is coming fast and talks have broken off for the time being.

Outsider POV.

IMO, Elway is trying to establish a culture of paying well, but not over paying much like the Steelers have. The difference is that DEN has sought out and paid big time players on the FA market...Manning, Ware, Talib, etc.

It's harder to get the home grown talent to take a home town discount when you do that. I guess I can't blame Elway for letting VM play out his rookie contract given the past trouble with weed. He's stayed clean to date as far as I know and is well deserving of $55 to $60 mil in guaranteed money which is the crux of the deal at this point.

VM needs to shut his trap about not playing under the tag, but I get the sense this will get done before the JUL 15 deadline. If it doesn't I think VM days in DEN are short lived...he'll be pissed enough to leave for certain next yr.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Highest paid non-QB is going to use up all the leverage there is. I'd bet money it gets done on July 15th. Nothing too crazy or nefarious here- just two sides looking out for their own interests with big money involved. Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, and Justin Houston were all July 15 signees. The unneccessary high school drama is just that- drama. White noise.

 

[Broncos6482]

Because he wants to be the highest paid non qb in the league, and the Broncos want to try to get him for as little as possible so as to keep the cap in good shape. Plus he's on the franchise tag, and they've got until the middle of July to get a deal done.

I'm still extremely confident they'll work out a long term deal shortly before the deadline. Elway isn't going to let his first ever draft pick, who turned out to be a great pick, get away.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Anytime a guy is franchised they never really sign a long term deal until the deadline approaches.

Why?

Because they are on opposite ends. The guy signing it wants every penny, the guy offering wants to take away every penny.

Then the deadline gets closer and the sides reach in the middle.
It will get done. I am not worried personally. Franchise contracts seem to go through the process like this, just like every other year.

 

[nflbronco]

Why its not July 14th 2 hrs before deadline remember 95% of all huge money contracts go to last hours RELAX

 

[CEH]

Make sure to take the FAX machine down to Staples for a tune up. Don't want another Fax gate

 

[cdumler7]

Few things going on...

1) Don't expect a deal this week. Every player, coach, FO person is encouraged during this week to take a vacation. So nobody is even home to try and get something figured out. Now I'm sure if Von Miller's camp called up and said they were ready to negotiate they could get back from wherever they are in the world but right now with everybody on vacation most likely nothing really moves forward.

2) As others have said most of these deals get done last minute. Neither side has reason to blink right now knowing that the deadline is fast approaching. So both sides dig in for about a month just hoping maybe something happens but it never does and then the negotiations pick back up a few days before the deadline and usually get signed just a few hours before the actual deadline happens.

3) Something not talked about much but it actually financially makes sense for the Broncos to continue to wait at this point. Instead of having to put that $60 million or whatever it will be in guaranteed money into an account with the NFL they can allow that to sit in their bank account collecting about $200,000 a month in interest. Doesn't sound like much in terms of NFL money but every little bit helps.

 

[Manimal Sighting]

First off I agree with everybody's points so far...especially that damn fax machine, that ordeal still puzzles me.
But this is a good place to ramble so ramble I shall...

Just curious.

Ring of Famer (Von is in if John Lynch is) , on the path to Hall of Famer (see Strahan) .

All the other studs from 2011 are locked up long term. Even 2012 studs starting to be locked up.

Von is already one year behind the others having to play his rookie contract out. Most likely due to being in drug program couple years ago.

Is the issue on management's side or the player' s side? or is this Denver's standard operating procedure. They did the deadline thing last year with DT. Others like Wolfe and Harris signed early but with what is perceived as a home town discount.

Is Von's past still an issue to Elway?

Is Denver a Super Bowl contender this year with a happy highly paid Von ? Are they one still without Von?

Can a 1st and 3rd compensate for the lost of Von if it comes to that?

There has to be a win win for everyone one here right?

In this case, I side a little more with Von than trust in Elway. Pay the man. Others may trust Elway or the franchise more which is fine.

July 15th is coming fast and talks have broken off for the time being.

You almost bring up too many good questions about this that I want to touch on.
1) having to play his rookie contract out
-It can be a difficult balance in this case. The team wants to keep a bargain and the player doesn't, hard to blame either side. We have been talking the same way about P Lynch and how that rookie contract could do wonders for us if he is successful. As it relates to the drug program i was under the impression that he is back to square one so to speak and a positive test is no longer a year long suspension (someone please correct me if i'm wrong)
2)Home town discount
-I just don't see that happening with him. However much I want us to sign him and love the Wolfe and Harris contracts because of their dedication to the team, Someone who deserves or is perceived to deserve absolute top dollar won't take a home town discount. I think back to the Mario Williams, Suh type deals where being the highest paid player is important to them
3)Is Denver a Super Bowl contender this year with a happy highly paid Von ? Are they one still without Von?
-This is a tough one for me. Are the broncos a contender with Von? abso-f*cking-lutely. Without him? well no doubt that hurts but maybe. My best guess is that without him we could win the Super Bowl...or miss the playoffs. The whole issue for me however is him being the highest paid player. Don't get me wrong I love Von as a player and I hope he stays a successful bronco for life. It isn't often a HOF caliber player stays with one team and contributes so much, but the issue is what his contract does to the rest of the roster. Yes a potential 5 year rookie deal QB could help but I just don't see the history with these max deals being all that optimistic. Just think about a team like Baltimore even after paying Flacco. Even top QBs are having to take pay cuts because eating up such a big percentage of the cap is a surefire way to hinder a team.
4)1st and 3rd for Von?
-In my mind it doesn't quite compensate even with the cap savings. Don't know how to feel about it but that hilarious trade Von to the raiders nonsense would almost be palatable after thinking about it a bit. Obviously don't want to trade him, especially to a division rival but now is the time to metaphorically sell high and if the value was high enough......a hesitant maybe.
Ok rant over. There are just so many interesting implications to think about here though. Let's just hope whatever happens ends well for the team and right now my hope is a signed Von that doesn't cripple the teams cap

 

[Manimal Sighting]

Few things going on...

1) Don't expect a deal this week. Every player, coach, FO person is encouraged during this week to take a vacation. So nobody is even home to try and get something figured out. Now I'm sure if Von Miller's camp called up and said they were ready to negotiate they could get back from wherever they are in the world but right now with everybody on vacation most likely nothing really moves forward.

2) As others have said most of these deals get done last minute. Neither side has reason to blink right now knowing that the deadline is fast approaching. So both sides dig in for about a month just hoping maybe something happens but it never does and then the negotiations pick back up a few days before the deadline and usually get signed just a few hours before the actual deadline happens.

3) Something not talked about much but it actually financially makes sense for the Broncos to continue to wait at this point. Instead of having to put that $60 million or whatever it will be in guaranteed money into an account with the NFL they can allow that to sit in their bank account collecting about $200,000 a month in interest. Doesn't sound like much in terms of NFL money but every little bit helps.

That is an interesting point. I like the way you think ser

 

[cdumler7]

That is an interesting point. I like the way you think ser

Well when we are thinking about a multi-billion dollar industry we have to remember they always think in terms of money and making as much as they possibly can so missing out even on $200,000 is a big loss in their minds.

 

[RDog]

I doubt that there are many Bronco fans who don't want Miller back. He is one of the most explosive athletes we have ever had.

The real question is can any team really afford a superstar who plays a position other than quarterback? Any such team may in fact be giving up a future chance at winning a Super Bowl. If his production declines due to injury, drugs, or lack of effort, we end up wasting an opportunity in the future. How many good players will we not be able to keep due to this one massive contract?

I on the fence on this one. Elway has to make this decision based on what is best for the team down the road. Miller has proven he can lead us to a Super Bowl victory. But we have lost Jackson and Travathan. Would we be better off trading him to Jacksonville in exchange for Dante Fowler and Myles Jack?

 

[MileHigh64]

I doubt that there are many Bronco fans who don't want Miller back. He is one of the most explosive athletes we have ever had.

The real question is can any team really afford a superstar who plays a position other than quarterback? Any such team may in fact be giving up a future chance at winning a Super Bowl. If his production declines due to injury, drugs, or lack of effort, we end up wasting an opportunity in the future. How many good players will we not be able to keep due to this one massive contract?

I on the fence on this one. Elway has to make this decision based on what is best for the team down the road. Miller has proven he can lead us to a Super Bowl victory. But we have lost Jackson and Travathan. Would we be better off trading him to Jacksonville in exchange for Dante Fowler and Myles Jack?

I think the Broncos can make a giant non-QB contract work, since they don't have to make a major investment at the QB position if Lynch works out. By the time the Broncos need to commit big moolah to the quarterback, Von's deal will be winding down. All of this of course depends on whether or not Paxton Lynch is good.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Few things going on...

1) Don't expect a deal this week. Every player, coach, FO person is encouraged during this week to take a vacation. So nobody is even home to try and get something figured out. Now I'm sure if Von Miller's camp called up and said they were ready to negotiate they could get back from wherever they are in the world but right now with everybody on vacation most likely nothing really moves forward.

2) As others have said most of these deals get done last minute. Neither side has reason to blink right now knowing that the deadline is fast approaching. So both sides dig in for about a month just hoping maybe something happens but it never does and then the negotiations pick back up a few days before the deadline and usually get signed just a few hours before the actual deadline happens.

3) Something not talked about much but it actually financially makes sense for the Broncos to continue to wait at this point. Instead of having to put that $60 million or whatever it will be in guaranteed money into an account with the NFL they can allow that to sit in their bank account collecting about $200,000 a month in interest. Doesn't sound like much in terms of NFL money but every little bit helps.

#3...is that how that works? I thought it was prorated over X amount of time.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I doubt that there are many Bronco fans who don't want Miller back. He is one of the most explosive athletes we have ever had.

The real question is can any team really afford a superstar who plays a position other than quarterback? Any such team may in fact be giving up a future chance at winning a Super Bowl. If his production declines due to injury, drugs, or lack of effort, we end up wasting an opportunity in the future. How many good players will we not be able to keep due to this one massive contract?

I on the fence on this one. Elway has to make this decision based on what is best for the team down the road. Miller has proven he can lead us to a Super Bowl victory. But we have lost Jackson and Travathan. Would we be better off trading him to Jacksonville in exchange for Dante Fowler and Myles Jack?

#1 position...QB
#2 position...QB getter

Where you don't want to spend it...DT...as great as Suh is...that investment will never give them a decent return.

 

[cdumler7]

#3...is that how that works? I thought it was prorated over X amount of time.

What I mean by that is all that guaranteed money whatever it will be goes from the Broncos bank account where it is drawing interest for them into an NFL holdings account where it actually does draw money but that is for the entire league not just for the Broncos. So this is a matter of them getting that say $200,000 per month extra with it sitting in their savings account compared to that of the NFL's account. At least whatever doesn't go directly to Von Miller the second he signs his contract.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What I mean by that is all that guaranteed money whatever it will be goes from the Broncos bank account where it is drawing interest for them into an NFL holdings account where it actually does draw money but that is for the entire league not just for the Broncos. So this is a matter of them getting that say $200,000 per month extra with it sitting in their savings account compared to that of the NFL's account. At least whatever doesn't go directly to Von Miller the second he signs his contract.

Oh...ok...idk know how that worked...so the team has to fork over said guaranteed money in lump sum to the NFL and they prorate it out to the player per contract terms?

 

[cdumler7]

#1 position...QB
#2 position...QB getter

Where you don't want to spend it...DT...as great as Suh is...that investment will never give them a decent return.

Agree with this...

And like Milehigh said the fact that we won't have a ton of money invested in the QB position makes a deal with Von Miller a little more possible. To me Malik was gone no matter what. The Broncos knew his value wasn't $15 million a year. To me that would be terrible investment wise if the Broncos had gone up to that value for a good but not great player.

Also no we would not be able to keep both Malik and Trevathan for the price of Von plus add the players that RDog hinted towards in Jacksonville. Malik is making on average $14.25 million per year, Fowler $5.8 million per year, Miles Jack $1.6 million per year, and Trevathan $6 million per year. So in total if we were to make that trade we are talking about $28 million per year. And Malik and Trevathan together make more than what Von will make and to me Von is worth a Malik and Trevathan combined. Those type of guys are replaceable. There are not many guys I would say can do even remotely close to what Von does on the field.

 

[cdumler7]

Oh...ok...idk know how that worked...so the team has to fork over said guaranteed money in lump sum to the NFL and they prorate it out to the player per contract terms?

Not completely right. Essentially when a player signs a contract there are going to be different parts that hit at different times. Such as signing bonus has to be paid day 1. The team can have the cap hit for the signing bonus go over a 5-year period of the contract but that money is handed over day 1. Then you have the guaranteed money for the first year which would be base salary plus any of the guarantees made for that first year. Now a team can delay when certain guarantees actually hit and can hold onto that money. That honestly can be best for the player and the team in the sense that the team doesn't have to pay ridiculous money day 1 and can space it over a period of time while the player keeps getting large chunks of money throughout the contract.

Such as Fletcher Cox. Now he signed a contract with fully guaranteed money (base salary year 1, signing bonus, and other guaranteed money) around $36.3 million. Now if he is on the roster in year 2 another set of guaranteed money kicks in where his 3rd year base salary becomes fully guaranteed. They will not cut him as the cap hit for cutting him after the first year would be $29.8 million with a ton of dead money. So that money while not fully guaranteed is essentially fully guaranteed unless something really crazy happens. So again this helps the team and helps the player both money wise.

 

[CEH]

First off I agree with everybody's points so far...especially that damn fax machine, that ordeal still puzzles me.
But this is a good place to ramble so ramble I shall...


You almost bring up too many good questions about this that I want to touch on.
1) having to play his rookie contract out
-It can be a difficult balance in this case. The team wants to keep a bargain and the player doesn't, hard to blame either side. We have been talking the same way about P Lynch and how that rookie contract could do wonders for us if he is successful. As it relates to the drug program i was under the impression that he is back to square one so to speak and a positive test is no longer a year long suspension (someone please correct me if i'm wrong)
2)Home town discount
-I just don't see that happening with him. However much I want us to sign him and love the Wolfe and Harris contracts because of their dedication to the team, Someone who deserves or is perceived to deserve absolute top dollar won't take a home town discount. I think back to the Mario Williams, Suh type deals where being the highest paid player is important to them
3)Is Denver a Super Bowl contender this year with a happy highly paid Von ? Are they one still without Von?
-This is a tough one for me. Are the broncos a contender with Von? abso-f*cking-lutely. Without him? well no doubt that hurts but maybe. My best guess is that without him we could win the Super Bowl...or miss the playoffs. The whole issue for me however is him being the highest paid player. Don't get me wrong I love Von as a player and I hope he stays a successful bronco for life. It isn't often a HOF caliber player stays with one team and contributes so much, but the issue is what his contract does to the rest of the roster. Yes a potential 5 year rookie deal QB could help but I just don't see the history with these max deals being all that optimistic. Just think about a team like Baltimore even after paying Flacco. Even top QBs are having to take pay cuts because eating up such a big percentage of the cap is a surefire way to hinder a team.
4)1st and 3rd for Von?
-In my mind it doesn't quite compensate even with the cap savings. Don't know how to feel about it but that hilarious trade Von to the raiders nonsense would almost be palatable after thinking about it a bit. Obviously don't want to trade him, especially to a division rival but now is the time to metaphorically sell high and if the value was high enough......a hesitant maybe.
Ok rant over. There are just so many interesting implications to think about here though. Let's just hope whatever happens ends well for the team and right now my hope is a signed Von that doesn't cripple the teams cap

I think the highest paid player part is not really an issue. Next year someone else will be the highest paid player.

This is easy if one thinks Denver contends for a Super Bowl with Von and may not make the playoffs without him.

If it were me, after the Brock fiasco ended , I would have paid Von then and there. Bowlen has never had a lot of cash on hand compared to the other owners so saving $200K in interest may be a reason but I think in Elway's heart of hearts he knows they will have to make Von very happy soon.