Why is Starling Marte not with the Big Club yet?

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Why is Starling Marte not with the Big Club yet? I really expected him to be up here after the All Star break.

I mean I like Drew Sutton alot as a bench guy\Util. player, but come on, I think Marte can help this team both offensively & defensively at this point in the OF more than Drew Sutton.

Couple of questions for you guys. Do you think Neal is holding back on Marte being brought up, because Marte is involved in serious trade talks by Neal?

Or, does it have something to do with bringing Marte up after a certain date, so that the Pirates can gain the extra yr of MLB service time out of Marte?

Either way, I think Marte is very ready for the Majors & could help the Bucs in the 2nd half, either with his play or via trade.

I really expected Marte to be up with the Pirates on Friday, to be honest.

Confused.

Burgh

 

[element1286]

He didn't play today, maybe he is on his way up. But I don't buy the notion he is absolutely ready.

I don't see him being a huge contributor if/when he does come up. Considering most of his current value comes from being able to play CF very well. We have a center fielder.

Just look at Marte's numbers and then look up Peter Bourjos, they are very, very similar players as far as bb/k rates, power, defensive abilities, speed, and even body type. Would everyone be happy if Marte came up and put up Bourjos numbers while playing an OF corner?

 

[Illinest]

I see how you arrived at the Bourjos comparison but it seems a bit selective and there are some nits to pick.

1. Marte's consistently higher batting average points at a better hit tool.
2. Marte has an ISO of .200 following last year's .168. Bourjos went as high as .186 one year but I think that Marte is certain to hit for more power as well.

But most importantly - Comparing minor league stats doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the way he'll translate to the majors.

Marte should be up with us because it's possible that he'll contribute more than Bourjos does, and because the other options have contributed so little. Even if Bourjos' level of production is what we get then I'd argue that he's still an upgrade over what we've gotten from Tabata and Presley. He is by all accounts a better fielder and baserunner than either.

 

[magnumo]

I'm with element.....

- Not sure that Marte's ready. I'd like to see him dominate AAA for a while.

- I HOPE he doesn't get traded, but you never know. Depends on the return.

- Time-wise, it probably would be safe to bring him up now.

If Marte stays healthy, continues to hit, (and especially if he improves his patience and pitch recognition), I'd like to see him in September after rosters expand. He might provide a nice spark at that time, if the Bucs remain in contention.

 

[element1286]

I see how you arrived at the Bourjos comparison but it seems a bit selective and there are some nits to pick.

1. Marte's consistently higher batting average points at a better hit tool.
2. Marte has an ISO of .200 following last year's .168. Bourjos went as high as .186 one year but I think that Marte is certain to hit for more power as well.

But most importantly - Comparing minor league stats doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the way he'll translate to the majors.

Marte should be up with us because it's possible that he'll contribute more than Bourjos does, and because the other options have contributed so little. Even if Bourjos' level of production is what we get then I'd argue that he's still an upgrade over what we've gotten from Tabata and Presley. He is by all accounts a better fielder and baserunner than either.

Fair enough, I agree it isn't a perfect comparison. But I just don't see a huge upgrade with Marte in the OF instead of what they already have. IMO, if Marte is an upgrade he would only be an upgrade because he improves the bench by sending Presley or Sutton to the bench on a daily basis.

To me, it makes sense to keep him in the minors until after the deadline. They don't need him right now. And they could potentially find an upgrade to play RF for the rest of the year, ie Quentin.

If they end up not acquiring anyone to play RF at the deadline, I can buy bringing him up at that point.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

He didn't play today, maybe he is on his way up. But I don't buy the notion he is absolutely ready.

I don't see him being a huge contributor if/when he does come up. Considering most of his current value comes from being able to play CF very well. We have a center fielder.

Just look at Marte's numbers and then look up Peter Bourjos, they are very, very similar players as far as bb/k rates, power, defensive abilities, speed, and even body type. Would everyone be happy if Marte came up and put up Bourjos numbers while playing an OF corner?

Olney on Disney said the Pirates would consider trading Marte as part of a package to acquire Justin Upton from the D-Backs.

 

[steelparrot]

On mlbtraderumors, I saw some anonymous rival executives are talking down Marte via sports writers calling him a 'tweener'.

That might mean he is the best prospect we are willing to trade.

 

[26 elroy face]

What is a tweener?

 

[Darkstone42]

What is a tweener?

A T-shaped hot dog?

 

[steelparrot]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...longer-new-york-yankees-boston-red-sox-071512

PIRATES’ MARTE: TOO MUCH HYPE?

Scouts and executives from multiple clubs continue to express doubt about the ability of Pirates Triple-A outfielder Starling Marte to become a star.

Marte, who turns 24 on Oct. 9, generally draws raves for his defense, but one scout describes him as a “tweener” with shaky instincts in center field and not enough power for left.

The scout also says that Marte struggles with good fastballs and too frequently is caught stealing; Marte has succeeded in only 18 of 30 attempts, or 60 percent.

Marte has improved his walk rate this season and still has time of develop. But at this point, it seems unlikely that he could be the centerpiece of a trade for a player such as Diamondbacks right fielder

Its all posturing so who knows.

 

[Illinest]

This stuff is public negotiation. I dont believe theres all that much to say about it. I think marte profiles as a rangy, good armed rightfielder who hits for okay average and some power.

 

[element1286]

Yea, I don't really buy the 'tweener' stuff, the guy is a CF, even if he takes bad routes at times, he can still go and get the ball. He might be a tweener on the Pirates, because he wouldn't be playing CF. But if a team is acquiring him to play CF, then he certainly isn't a tweener.

I find the other points very valid though.

 

[pixburgher66]

You have to wonder if he's not being called up because he's in trade discussion...the past 4 games our defense has been a big part of the 3 Ls. Sutton, Jones, and Harrison all with miscues.

 

[26 elroy face]

Texas Rangers, Los Angeles Angels new MLB superpowers, no longer New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

PIRATES’ MARTE: TOO MUCH HYPE?

Scouts and executives from multiple clubs continue to express doubt about the ability of Pirates Triple-A outfielder Starling Marte to become a star.

Marte, who turns 24 on Oct. 9, generally draws raves for his defense, but one scout describes him as a “tweener” with shaky instincts in center field and not enough power for left.

The scout also says that Marte struggles with good fastballs and too frequently is caught stealing; Marte has succeeded in only 18 of 30 attempts, or 60 percent.

Marte has improved his walk rate this season and still has time of develop. But at this point, it seems unlikely that he could be the centerpiece of a trade for a player such as Diamondbacks right fielder

Its all posturing so who knows.

He probably said the same thing about Andrew McCutchen.

 

[element1286]

0-4 with three k's tonight, he's not ready...am I doing it right?!?!?!?!

 

[Illinest]

Marte is still having an impressive season.
Look - McCutchen made AAA at a younger age but he was there for parts of three seasons.
First year - .765
Second year - .770
Third year - .853

Marte took longer to get there but he's sitting at .863 right now.

He's the same age as McCutchen was when he was promoted if I'm not mistaken, performing almost exactly the same according to OPS. The peripherals are very different I grant you, but peripherals are a tool for evaluation - not a crystal ball that determines the future.

I'd be shocked if Marte ever becomes anywhere near as good as McCutchen - so don't take me the wrong way - but if we're waiting on 700 at bats I'd like to know why. Sounds like some number that someone pulled out of his ass. Even if there's research that supports the number it shouldn't necessarily be applied on an individual basis. Marte is an individual - he's not an aggregate of all prospects. He's old enough - many players get their first taste of the show at the same age. He's hitting very well. He might never cut down on the strikeouts, but that doesn't mean he can't be a successful player with a 18-20% strikeout rate. If that's what we're waiting for then we might wait forever - or until that arbitrary number of at bats passes and - welp - might as well let him try now eh?

 

[element1286]

He definitely could be a very good player striking out 20% of the time, but I don't buy that he will only strike out 20% of the time in the majors if we were to bring him up tomorrow, and I also don't buy he will walk ~7.0% of the time either.

Of course we could go round and round on this topic forever, and no one will change their mind.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

The big complaint that I have with Marte not being up here already is this.

Marte, has performed well at every level of the minors that he has played at. He is performing well in AAA now... but forget all that, my issue with Marte not being up in the Bigs now, is if you are holding him back because he is in serious trade discussions, that's one thing.

However, if not, who in the Pirates OF is blocking him? Alex Presley, G. Jones, Drew Sutton? Come on! None of these players have comparable skills to Marte right now.

We could use another bat, we could use the excellent OF defense that Marte would provide & Andrew could use the help.

We are playing for something this season after all. I say, unless NH is holding Marte back as a trade chip, for a Big, Proven, Stud bat?

Let's get Marte to Pittsburgh already. He could help us.

Burgh

 

[Darkstone42]

http://www.ovathletics.com/home/hurdle-preaches-patience-with-bringing-up-marte/12207

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

Thanks Darkstone for the article. I understand what Hurdle was saying in the article & I also understand Neal Huntington's feelings. I am trying to be patient about this & I am also trying to prepare myself, because Marte could possibly be involved in a big trade for us within the next 10 days & may never play for the Pirates.

However, if he isn't, I am just getting anxious to see him, because I feel he could help this team.

Burgh