What is Legend Status Worth?

[steveringo]

Thinking of Xander Boegarts & Aaron Judge...

If X goes to Philly & Judge goes to San Fran, would that diminish their career status? If they re-sign with Boston & New York, would they gain some legendary credentials as team lifers?

Is there a monetary value to this impression? Should players give teams a hometown discount?



Think of Jeter and Ortiz. (maybe it's a bad comparison) If they moved around, would they be as well liked?

 

[ill]

I don't think less of Chase Utley or Jimmy Rollins as "legendary Phillies" because they went and finished their careers elsewhere., but they were towards the ends of their careers when they did that.

Is this more of a Harper thing where he left DC in his prime and went to a rival team? Washington turned their back on him when he left and boos him when he bats. Do you expect Boston or NY fans to do that?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Thinking of Xander Boegarts & Aaron Judge...

If X goes to Philly & Judge goes to San Fran, would that diminish their career status? If they re-sign with Boston & New York, would they gain some legendary credentials as team lifers?

Is there a monetary value to this impression? Should players give teams a hometown discount?



Think of Jeter and Ortiz. (maybe it's a bad comparison) If they moved around, would they be as well liked?

Legendary status is generally earned in the post season and especially the WS... Boegarts might have won 2 WS, but has terrible WS statistics... and pretty mediocre playoff stats in general... he is very far from legend...

Judge, he is the AL HR king... but not the MLB HR king... and will not be the career HR king... so he has nothing really to tie him up to legend...

but as to your direct question about whether changing teams help or hurt... I think it definitely hurts... Part of being a legend is being linked to a certain teams success...

BUT if the team that player goes to starts winning WS, and they become the face of that team, then changing team helped...

But generally speaking, there are 3 ways to become a legend

1. you are the face of a dynasty- Jeter, Yogi, etc.

2. you are the best of the best- ted williams etc...

3. you own an unbelieveable record- Fernando Tatis


yes i consider Fernando tatis a legend!!! maybe i am mostly joking about that... but i like how the words look on my computer right now...

 

[steveringo]

3. you own an unbelieveable record- Fernando Tatis


yes i consider Fernando tatis a legend!!! maybe i am mostly joking about that... but i like how the words look on my computer right now...

Side note - I was at that Tatis game in LA.

It was pure Twilight Zone freaky...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Side note - I was at that Tatis game in LA.

It was pure Twilight Zone freaky...

im jealous...

 

[Cedrique]

I don't think less of Chase Utley or Jimmy Rollins as "legendary Phillies" because they went and finished their careers elsewhere., but they were towards the ends of their careers when they did that.

Is this more of a Harper thing where he left DC in his prime and went to a rival team? Washington turned their back on him when he left and boos him when he bats. Do you expect Boston or NY fans to do that?

Harper is a totally different situation than Rollins and Utley. Those guys didn't do anything. The Phillies paid full price to extend their contracts then traded them when they realized they needed to rebuild. But with Harper maybe the fans turned their back because they believe he sold out to the highest bidder. (which he may have-and there really isn't anything wrong with that but I'm just guessing at the justification). Plus like you said, they are in the same division.
One problem is they haven't invented a way to boo ownership yet, except through yelling on talk radio.

 

[msgkings322]

Thinking of Xander Boegarts & Aaron Judge...

If X goes to Philly & Judge goes to San Fran, would that diminish their career status? If they re-sign with Boston & New York, would they gain some legendary credentials as team lifers?

Is there a monetary value to this impression? Should players give teams a hometown discount?



Think of Jeter and Ortiz. (maybe it's a bad comparison) If they moved around, would they be as well liked?

David Ortiz played his first 6 years for the Twins

 

[molsaniceman]

Trout stayed with the same team hows it working out for him
To be a legend u need to do something exceptional
Are bond/clemens/pedro not legends? Just to name a few who changed teams
more players change teams then dont

 

[ill]

Harper is a totally different situation than Rollins and Utley. Those guys didn't do anything. The Phillies paid full price to extend their contracts then traded them when they realized they needed to rebuild. But with Harper maybe the fans turned their back because they believe he sold out to the highest bidder. (which he may have-and there really isn't anything wrong with that but I'm just guessing at the justification). Plus like you said, they are in the same division.
One problem is they haven't invented a way to boo ownership yet, except through yelling on talk radio.

I agree...it comes down to how they left town and whether there is bad blood between them and the fans.

Utley and Rollins brought Philly a championship and are beloved.

Nick Foles did the same and went and played somewhere else but is still a legend in Philly.

Judge is a great player and Yankee fans see him as their guy...but I don't think they would be mad if he left for more money, do you? I think he would still get a standing ovation when he came back to play them.

 

[navamind]

Not sure I'd call Bogaerts a Red Sox legend. He's been very good, but hardly elite. Only two top 10 finishes in WAR (2019 and 2022), never finished higher than 7th. He has hardware (4 silver sluggers, 4 All-Star appearances, 2 WS rings), but has only one top 10 MVP finish (5th in 2019).

He'll almost certainly make the Red Sox HOF, but he's not one of the first names that come to mind when I think of the greatest players in franchise history. He currently ranks 15th among Sox players in WAR.

I would love to resign Bogaerts, but I wouldn't want to go beyond 6 years.

 

[Cedrique]

I agree...it comes down to how they left town and whether there is bad blood between them and the fans.

Utley and Rollins brought Philly a championship and are beloved.

Nick Foles did the same and went and played somewhere else but is still a legend in Philly.

Judge is a great player and Yankee fans see him as their guy...but I don't think they would be mad if he left for more money, do you? I think he would still get a standing ovation when he came back to play them.

Yeah I agree with that, as long as he doesn't trash the fans or organization after he leaves, which I doubt he would do. If some team is offering him crazy money for 10 years or something the Yankees would probably be better off letting him go finish his career somewhere else, then do like the Cardinals did with Pujols and sign him for his last year, or week or day so he can retire a Yankee.

 

[ill]

Yeah I agree with that, as long as he doesn't trash the fans or organization after he leaves, which I doubt he would do. If some team is offering him crazy money for 10 years or something the Yankees would probably be better off letting him go finish his career somewhere else, then do like the Cardinals did with Pujols and sign him for his last year, or week or day so he can retire a Yankee.

and over time, you get over it.

Take Jayson Werth for example. Left Philly after we won and went to the Nats for a LOT of money. Can't blame him but I think fans were butthurt about him leaving even though the Phillies weren't going to offer that kind of money.

now, we still love him. He came and threw out a first pitch. He will always be legendary

 

[Cedrique]

Not sure I'd call Bogaerts a Red Sox legend. He's been very good, but hardly elite. Only two top 10 finishes in WAR (2019 and 2022), never finished higher than 7th. He has hardware (4 silver sluggers, 4 All-Star appearances, 2 WS rings), but has only one top 10 MVP finish (5th in 2019).

He'll almost certainly make the Red Sox HOF, but he's not one of the first names that come to mind when I think of the greatest players in franchise history. He currently ranks 15th among Sox players in WAR.

I would love to resign Bogaerts, but I wouldn't want to go beyond 6 years.

I looked at Bogaerts stats and I was actually surprised at how high his WAR was, probably because there are a few other shortstops that are good offensively so he doesn't stand out. Then I took a look at Nomar. I forgot how great that guy was in his prime. Even with several subpar (for him) years at the end of his career he has a slugging percentage of .882. To me that is shockingly high for a shortstop. (Honus Wagner had a lifetime .858 OPS)

 

[Cedrique]

and over time, you get over it.

Take Jayson Werth for example. Left Philly after we won and went to the Nats for a LOT of money. Can't blame him but I think fans were butthurt about him leaving even though the Phillies weren't going to offer that kind of money.

now, we still love him. He came and threw out a first pitch. He will always be legendary

I missed that. I think he was a guy who said a bunch of shit about the fans or organization after he left. It's good to see that Werth and the fans have reconciled. After all it is just a game.

 

[ill]

I missed that. I think he was a guy who said a bunch of shit about the fans or organization after he left. It's good to see that Werth and the fans have reconciled. After all it is just a game.

I don't recall him talking shit.

he just took the money...can't blame him for it.

 

[Cedrique]

I don't recall him talking shit.

he just took the money...can't blame him for it.

I think there was something but maybe not. I don't blame him either. In retrospect was probably the right move for him and the Phillies. The Nationals overpaid so you can't blame him for getting generational wealth when he had the chance. And you can't blame the Phillies for not overpaying for him.

(of course you can blame the Phillies for overpaying for some other guys........)

 

[navamind]

I looked at Bogaerts stats and I was actually surprised at how high his WAR was, probably because there are a few other shortstops that are good offensively so he doesn't stand out. Then I took a look at Nomar. I forgot how great that guy was in his prime. Even with several subpar (for him) years at the end of his career he has a slugging percentage of .882. To me that is shockingly high for a shortstop. (Honus Wagner had a lifetime .858 OPS)

yep. almost all of Nomar's career value came from 6 seasons (1997-2003 with one injury year).

 

[catman]

David Ortiz played his first 6 years for the Twins

And the Twins got him from the Mariners for Dave Hollins.

 

[broncosmitty]

And the Twins got him from the Mariners for Dave Hollins.

Can’t be many HOFers who were cut, before their prime.

 

[molsaniceman]

Can’t be many HOFers who were cut, before their prime.

just the twins being the twins

After the season, the small market Twins faced a decision on Ortiz, who had made $950,000 and would likely have been granted around $2 million for 2003 by an arbitrator. Rather than negotiate a contract, or go to arbitration, the Twins instead decided to release Ortiz as a cost-cutting move on December 16, after being unable to swing a trade for him.[14][15][16] In parts of six seasons totaling 455 games with the Twins, Ortiz hit 58 home runs and had 238 RBI.[17] The player who replaced Ortiz on the Twins' roster, Jose Morban, would never play in a game for the team.