Game Thread: Week 9, 2015: Rams @ Vikings

[SJ76]

I hope this just feeds our D and makes the more motivated.

And I hope the refs don't put a target on our backs either.

As it gets colder, our D is going to be even better. No one likes getting drilled in the cold

 

[HighTopFade]

I hope this play shows other quarterbacks to slide sooner if they don't want to get hit. A fine would be ridiculous.

 

[shopson67]

I hope this play shows other quarterbacks to slide sooner if they don't want to get hit. A fine would be ridiculous.

The NFL fines for personal fouls every week. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

 

[SJ76]

$23,000 fine for Joyner

NFL levies fine on Rams CB Lamarcus Joyner for hit on Teddy Bridgewater

 

[Vitamike]

$23,000 fine for Joyner

NFL levies fine on Rams CB Lamarcus Joyner for hit on Teddy Bridgewater

After reading through Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 which regulates plays like this regarding Dead Ball Declared, the Runner (In this case the QB beyond the LOS) seeking to take advantage of this protection IS RESPONSIBLE for starting his slide when contact is imminent and if he does not and waits until the last moment HE puts himself in jeopardy.

Here is the portion of the rule that say just that...

(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

So I guess with this fine we are to believe that a fraction of a second (Because that is what it actually was in real time from the moment Teddy starts his slide to the moment contact was made) is not waiting until the last moment.

The rule clearly states that if he waits until the last moment, HE is responsible so why the fine? Hell, why the flag?

This is clearly a case where the 'runner' was viewed as a QB and provided extra protections not outlined in the rule book and where the fine was given due to the extent of the injury.

Here is the full rule for anyone who is interested.

Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared.
An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: (a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance; or (b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends; or (c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line of scrimmage; or (d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet; or Note: Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact. (1) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck are a of the runner. (2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

After reading through Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 which regulates plays like this regarding Dead Ball Declared, the Runner (In this case the QB beyond the LOS) seeking to take advantage of this protection IS RESPONSIBLE for starting his slide when contact is imminent and if he does not and waits until the last moment HE puts himself in jeopardy.

Here is the portion of the rule that say just that...



So I guess with this fine we are to believe that a fraction of a second (Because that is what it actually was in real time from the moment Teddy starts his slide to the moment contact was made) is not waiting until the last moment.

The rule clearly states that if he waits until the last moment, HE is responsible so why the fine? Hell, why the flag?

This is clearly a case where the 'runner' was viewed as a QB and provided extra protections not outlined in the rule book and where the fine was given due to the extent of the injury.

Here is the full rule for anyone who is interested.

Actually that's not the full rule, Vitamike. I side with defenders, because I feel the NFL has made defense as difficult as then can, but....here is a fuller version of what you posted.

Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.
(1) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by
a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is
not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by
driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.
(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before
contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his
slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

 

[Vitamike]

Actually that's not the full rule, Vitamike. I side with defenders, because I feel the NFL has made defense as difficult as then can, but....here is a fuller version of what you posted.

Defenders are required to treat a sliding runner as they would a runner who is down by contact.
(1) A defender must pull up when a runner begins a feet-first slide. This does not mean that all contact by
a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself, and the contact is unavoidable, it is
not a foul unless the defender commits some other act, such as helmet-to-helmet contact or by
driving his forearm or shoulder into the head or neck area of the runner.
(2) A runner who desires to take advantage of this protection is responsible for starting his slide before
contact by a defensive player is imminent; if he does not, and waits until the last moment to begin his
slide, he puts himself in jeopardy of being contacted.

I quoted the full rule at the end of my post Harold.

My point however was that of Teddy's responsibility of being contacted.

I personally don't think that Joyner 'drove' his forearm and I mentioned that at the beginning of my last post. I think he kept it tucked and then I do think it was unfortunate that his arm hit Teddy's face mask.

The bottom line, Article 2 clearly states that the runner is responsible to start his slide when contact is imminent and if he waits, he is responsible for the contact.

So I ask again, is Teddy sliding with a fraction of a second 'waiting until the last moment' or not?

I think that is the key to determining whether or not the play is considered dirty or not.

I also think the part you put in bold is the reason Joyner was fined the $25K but to my point, the reason he was not suspended.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Guess I should read all the way thru a post and seems we agree on the call. Wasn't dirty, but the shoulder and arm made enough contact with the head to give him a concussion, thus a foul.

 

[Smed55]

Obviously wasn't intentional or dirty! It kills me when homers(in this case Viking fans) go nuts about it, including a certain coach who should know this happens all the time!

I can't wait for the next time a Viking gets flagged for a late hit on a QB, but that may never happen, according to said coach, they play a clean game?

 

[Retroram52]

Like I stated long ago. This was not a dirty or illegal hit. Frikin' refs just don't like the Rams or the fact they hired Williams who the refs despise. Fisher should put a stop to this since he is on the rules committee. The fine was bullshit as well. THE RAMS ARE NOT A DIRTY TEAM!!!

 

[Rams Upser]

SJ hit it on the button. Nobody likes to get hit in the cold. AND also watch Gurley dominate the second half in cold weather !