Turns out Shark had it right all along!!!

[skinsdad62]

Regarding the first paragraph either Sty was taking a shot at Griff or he was offering a stupid suggestion. Those are my choice?

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.....uh I stopped reading after the start of paragraph 2 because I'm done arguing the whole CSI thing and I just got here! We have no idea who the source was and it really doesn't matter. Leaks happen everywhere. While I agree it shouldn't happen it's not worth arguing over. Bottom line is the starting QB is healthy, has been cleared to play, and he should start on Sunday. That's all that really matters.

in case i have forgotten to inform everyone but i have filed and received a patent for the use of (CSI) and i expect royalties for any further use of the term and its associated forms of said usage

 

[KickSaveDave]

Regarding the first paragraph either Sty was taking a shot at Griff or he was offering a stupid suggestion. Those are my choice?

Regarding the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.....uh I stopped reading after the start of paragraph 2 because I'm done arguing the whole CSI thing and I just got here! We have no idea who the source was and it really doesn't matter. Leaks happen everywhere. While I agree it shouldn't happen it's not worth arguing over. Bottom line is the starting QB is healthy, has been cleared to play, and he should start on Sunday. That's all that really matters.

I wish that was all that really matters. But since what we do is over analyze the shit out of everything, trying to figure out how much control Gruden has, or lacks, is a solid way to consume the boring middle of the week days after the glow of a Pokes beatdown has worn off

 

[Sportster 72]

Sigh... You're interpreting "bench Griffin" as a dig on Griffin when its not intended that way. I'm not in agreement that benching Griffin to show the world that Gruden is in charge is the proper approach, but that is how its intended by Stymie, I believe. Griffin's ego would be the unfortunate collateral damage to such a move, which is why I'm not in favor of it, but its not intended to say "Griffin sucks" or "Griffin belongs on the bench"... its intended to say "Gruden is in charge" and nothing more. So you're reading some thing that isn't what was intended there.

With that said, lets say Griffin is the anonymous source? Griff practices with the first teams all week, he's been itching to get back in there, so he tweets to his person that he's gonna start before Gruden has made the decision yet. Now its all in the news, and Gruden either has to start him, or walk back the story and make it look like Griff isn't ready, or Gruden simply starts him anyway and loses a little more control. I get this is full blown CSI shit here, I know its hypothetical. But if you are the HC and you learn that your QB leaks out he's starting before you've made up your mind, what course of action would you follow to show the QB who's boss? Or would you just let it all slide and show the QB that he's actually your boss?


See what I'm getting at? If the HC isn't the boss, then who is? If players are sending messages about who's starting, who's making those decisions? Its been a circus at Redskins PArk for 15 years, and this is an example of it. The chain of command is poorly defined. The inmates are running the asylum. The players have a backdoor to Snyder... or a backdoor to the media... or the HC (or GM) is just a puppet... these are the stories that swirl around Redskins Park for Snyder's whole tenure. Having anonymous sources making the starting QB announcements is nothing more than a continuation of that circus. Benching RGIII would send a message that Jay Gruden is in charge and he makes those decisions, not the players. I totally get what Stymie was saying there and it really has nothing to do with RGIII, unless RGIII was actually the secret source, in which case he SHOULD be benched for undermining his HC's authority.

I just want the circus to stop. I don't care how it stops, I want to see REAL leadership, and I still don't see it.

DGF has such a love affair with Griffin that he feels he has to respond to anything he deems as a hit to him. Sty's opening post was never about not liking Griffin or anything negative towards Griffin. It was about the dysfunctional FO this team has had for the past 15 years. He has never understood the post and feels that calling out Sty and questioning his knowledge is the best way to respond to what he perceives as hits against Griffin

DGF is not the only one like that here. There are a few who are so polarized for or against a player that they feel they have to answer every single thread that doesn't agree with them. I have some favorites but in the end we are rooting for the uniform not the player. That is how I perceive it anyhow.

Anyone who is overprotecting any QB ends up appearing to be primarily a fan and football analysis flies out the window.

Listening to the media only fuels the same thing. Cousins was never going to be the starter without Griffin getting hurt again or failing miserably. Colt was even a more distant chance.

Sty, Dave and I are not the only ones that think decisions are being made by the FO in some cases. No one should be shocked at this. Jerry Jones just told Garrett that Romo was going to go back in the game Monday night.

Tweets getting out can be controlled. As a coach, GM or owner you can tell players you do NOT want them tweeting any information that you want regarding the team. How often have you heard someone tweeting things in NE that Belichek doesn't want revealed? Not very often.

I don't have a dog in the hunt. Griffin is most likely the best we have. How good that is still has to be determined. I don't think saving him for one more game helps anything. He needs playing time.

I will say that the folks that are trying to suppress anyone else on here having analysis that doesn't agree with you only makes you look a fan and not someone that is trying to actually analyze the games.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DGF has such a love affair with Griffin that he feels he has to respond to anything he deems as a hit to him. Sty's opening post was never about not liking Griffin or anything negative towards Griffin. It was about the dysfunctional FO this team has had for the past 15 years. He has never understood the post and feels that calling out Sty and questioning his knowledge is the best way to respond to what he perceives as hits against Griffin

DGF is not the only one like that here. There are a few who are so polarized for or against a player that they feel they have to answer every single thread that doesn't agree with them. I have some favorites but in the end we are rooting for the uniform not the player. That is how I perceive it anyhow.

Anyone who is overprotecting any QB ends up appearing to be primarily a fan and football analysis flies out the window.

Listening to the media only fuels the same thing. Cousins was never going to be the starter without Griffin getting hurt again or failing miserably. Colt was even a more distant chance.

Sty, Dave and I are not the only ones that think decisions are being made by the FO in some cases. No one should be shocked at this. Jerry Jones just told Garrett that Romo was going to go back in the game Monday night.

Tweets getting out can be controlled. As a coach, GM or owner you can tell players you do NOT want them tweeting any information that you want regarding the team. How often have you heard someone tweeting things in NE that Belichek doesn't want revealed? Not very often.

I don't have a dog in the hunt. Griffin is most likely the best we have. How good that is still has to be determined. I don't think saving him for one more game helps anything. He needs playing time.

I will say that the folks that are trying to suppress anyone else on here having analysis that doesn't agree with you only makes you look a fan and not someone that is trying to actually analyze the games.

Oh I have totally admitted why I react to the shots at Griffin. I'm not "in love" with the player, I have acknowledged his faults and where he needs to improve. I am just sick and tired of all the hate the guy gets. I have never seen a fan base turn on a player the way our fans have turned on Griffin and it pisses me off. Hell we had posters here openly cheering a horrible injury. I've never seen that before, have you?

It got so bad a ton of fans proclaimed Kirk Cousins, a guy who has done little in this league, as the no doubt better option. That had far less to do with Cousins and everything to do with the hate for Griffin. Heath Shuler never got this much hate and Heath Shuler never came close to the level of play we saw from Griffin in 2012. Michael Westbrook never got this much hate and his behavior was far worse than Griffin's, it's not even in the same universe. Michael Westbrook strutted around town like he was Jerry Rice and he didn't do shit here besides cheap shot a teammate. But Westbrook never got this much hate. So Griff is insecure. Fans act as if he knocked out his girlfriend then took money to throw the game on Sunday. The hate does not match the crime IMO, not even close. Let's be honest, the hate comes more from the price we paid than the actions of the player and that's simply not fair.

So yeah I admit to being defensive. Bottom line is he is our only chance at a franchise QB. So rather than rip the guy and root for anyone but him maybe we should wake up and realize that if he fails we are screwed for the next decade. And no that is not because of the picks (see the Rams record) it's because you need a top QB to be competitive year after year. That guy ain't Kirk and it sure ain't Colt. Robert is the only shot we've got so shut up and give the guy a chance.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As for this thread's theme I'm still waiting for any form of evidence that this story broke from a Robert Griffin tweet or that he had anything to do with the decision as Kick is implying. I see nothing to indicate that the players are running the show. Are there questions about this organization? Without a doubt, I've been very critical of this organization and it stinks from the top down. There is no doubt in my mind that Snyder took a back seat when Shanny was here. Now we don't know, no doubt Gruden does not weld the same power as a first time coach. But to imply that the decision to play Griff is coming from Snyder, or the player, and goes against the coach's wishes, well that's a theory but not one I'm buying right now. Still with Snyder anything's possible.

 

[Stymietee]

“To see those anonymous sources and the back-biting and different comments…it was distasteful,” Redskins GM Bruce Allen said last December. “Any coach, any organization knows in pro sports you need to eliminate distractions. Instead we created our own distractions, and it distracted from our play on the field. And we will do our best to alleviate any of those issues in the future.”


Well, the back-biting and “different comments” might be gone, but the anonymous sources sure aren’t.


This again? Anonymous sources break RGIII news at Redskins Park
Washington Post @washingtonpost


There were reports on106.7 The fan that Russini got the information from a tweet from RGIII himself.....hence the "IF true" remark. They reported it . It's where I first heard it, so if you have an issue with that talk to them!

 

[KickSaveDave]

As for this thread's theme I'm still waiting for any form of evidence that this story broke from a Robert Griffin tweet or that he had anything to do with the decision as Kick is implying. I see nothing to indicate that the players are running the show. Are there questions about this organization? Without a doubt, I've been very critical of this organization and it stinks from the top down. There is no doubt in my mind that Snyder took a back seat when Shanny was here. Now we don't know, no doubt Gruden does not weld the same power as a first time coach. But to imply that the decision to play Griff is coming from Snyder, or the player, and goes against the coach's wishes, well that's a theory but not one I'm buying right now. Still with Snyder anything's possible.

I wasn't implying that I thought that was what happened, I was hypothesizing how we should react if that did happen. Not really even CSI stuff, but throwing out a scenario and asking how it should be handled.

But DGF, lets not pretend that RGIII has always been a complete perfect poster boy for keeping his thoughts and opinions all bottled up to himself. From the rumors of his Dad talking about using the RO to the coach, to him subtly controlling the message last year about wanting to play in preseason to prove he's ready, to his reaction to being benched last year at the end, RGIII's voice is out there in the media, and its not always pitch perfect. I'm not trashing the guy, nor hating on him, but it is a fact that RGIII's public communication has at times been not in lock step with the HC's communication, and that's another sign of a dysfunctional organization. If the HC and the QB aren't on the same page, the team has problems, they could be small, or they could be major, that depends on the nature of the actual disagreement. If that disagreement goes public, then it becomes a distraction, as Bruce Allen, the General Manager, commented on in Stymie's post above.

Again, I just want the circus to end, and right now when I look at Redskins Park I still see clowns juggling on unicycles and elephants dancing while being ridden by a monkey.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

You are certainly bringing more to the table Stymie and you have caused me to rethink this a bit. No doubt it was a mistake, if for competitive reasons alone, to announce this ahead of time. But of course we do not know for sure who leaked it. But even if it was Robert I think this entire thread, let alone suggesting he be benched just to teach him a lesson, is an overreaction and clearly what's not best for the team IMO

 

[KickSaveDave]

You are certainly bringing more to the table Stymie and you have caused me to rethink this a bit. No doubt it was a mistake, if for competitive reasons alone, to announce this ahead of time. But of course we do not know for sure who leaked it. But even if it was Robert I think this entire thread, let alone suggesting he be benched just to teach him a lesson, is an overreaction and clearly what's not best for the team IMO

It doesn't really matter who leaked it, its a sign of dysfunction. If the QB leaked it, its the worst case scenario.... if it's the water boy or some 3rd string RB, its still not a good sign but its less of deal.

I agree that benching him is not the ideal way to handle it, unless it truly was RGIII that leaked it and that can be proven. Then I would absolutely bench him because he's personally undermining the HC. But without any actual evidence that he did leak it, lets move on.

 

[skinsdad62]

“To see those anonymous sources and the back-biting and different comments…it was distasteful,” Redskins GM Bruce Allen said last December. “Any coach, any organization knows in pro sports you need to eliminate distractions. Instead we created our own distractions, and it distracted from our play on the field. And we will do our best to alleviate any of those issues in the future.”


Well, the back-biting and “different comments” might be gone, but the anonymous sources sure aren’t.


This again? Anonymous sources break RGIII news at Redskins Park
Washington Post @washingtonpost


There were reports on106.7 The fan that Russini got the information from a tweet from RGIII himself.....hence the "IF true" remark. They reported it . It's where I first heard it, so if you have an issue with that talk to them!

ok well if that tweet came from RG3 then wouldnt it have gone national ?

and if he kept the tweet out of the press and simply told her early , what real "crime" has been committed here ?

gruden has pretty much said he was going to start from just about every press conference he has had this week

i dont know why we always have to go sinister here it is a none story

 

[skinsdad62]

John Keim: It's not about rest with him. At some point he needs to go back in the game because they consider him the best at the position. I don't disagree, either. Griffin is more than rested and he's healthy. Yes, McCoy won a big game the other day (though the defense, to me, was fantastic and allowed him to overcome a sluggish first half). If the Redskins return to using Griffin in a variety of ways, he'll be fine. At some point he has to return; at some point he's going to deal with not having played since Week 2. Also, all parties knew Griffin was close last week and they knew he would return likely this week. To sit him now would risk damaging the trust that needs to be there between Jay Gruden and Griffin. You might recall that happened with the previous coach.

read the above and read it carefully

notice what it says , "ALL parties INVOLVED KNEW he was close to returning last week and would LIKELY return this week "

so please tell me what the problem is again ?

 

[KickSaveDave]

notice what it says , "ALL parties INVOLVED KNEW he was close to returning last week and would LIKELY return this week "

so please tell me what the problem is again ?

You've been told what the problem is, you just feel differently. But don't pretend that players tweeting decisions that should be announced by the HC before the HC makes the announcement, is a preferred way of running a team, or that it shows leadership on the HC part. Its part of the circus act that is Redskins Park for 16 years now.

Also, "close to returning" and "Is going to start" are materially different things. One is a status, the other is a coaches decision.

 

[Stymietee]

ok well if that tweet came from RG3 then wouldnt it have gone national ?

and if he kept the tweet out of the press and simply told her early , what real "crime" has been committed here ?

gruden has pretty much said he was going to start from just about every press conference he has had this week

i dont know why we always have to go sinister here it is a none story

I believe that NBC the station that Russini works for is an arm of a national organization.

No "real" crime committed.....just a continuation of what's been vowed to end by Bruce Allen.

Show me one instance where the HC has said directly the RGIII "Will start" period. He's cone close but has yet to say so directly. I'm posting this at 4:32 pm on Saturday and might have missed a statement earlier today to that effect, but as of Friday midnight.....nothing from the HC.

Maybe winning a few games does cure all ills in the minds of some, but just as soon as another loss we begin to peer under the rug where the dirt is hidden. Too many posters, including yourself, have taken the position that there is much dysfunction in the FO. Does a two game winning streak truly change that?

 

[skinsdad62]

You've been told what the problem is, you just feel differently. But don't pretend that players tweeting decisions that should be announced by the HC before the HC makes the announcement, is a preferred way of running a team, or that it shows leadership on the HC part. Its part of the circus act that is Redskins Park for 16 years now.

Also, "close to returning" and "Is going to start" are materially different things. One is a status, the other is a coaches decision.

ok , dave and tell me a team in the NFL that doesnt have leaks ? answer is none

i dont undertsand why its such a huge issue if it was leaked, even if it was by Rg3 , which there is no hard evidence that it is

you would have to be a moron not to know he had a great chance to start this week

now someone , anyone , show me the Rg3 tweet , show me because i have yet to see it

gruden has strongly indicated that RG3 was going to start all week long and i say strongly hinted because he wasnt trying to tip anything off but if you read between the lines you and everyone else KNEW it was coming

are you of the opinion that the team will sink into the depths of despair and agony because the info was leaked , really ?

do you think we will lose from now to eternity because it was leaked ?

the young 24 yr old qb jeopardized our teams collective future because he "tweeted " he was starting and he has yet again squashed a HC and mind controlled the owner to boot

sorry i dont buy that foolishness

i think a young beat reporter was trying to make a name for herself and get a scoop . i dont have an issue with that at all either but i do have an issue with people making opinion as fact .

FACT ,no tweet has been published , fact its an "unnamed source " which is hardly credible

come back to me when you have facts and not speculation and innuendo

and when you do i will still say BFD , its a non issue

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I believe that NBC the station that Russini works for is an arm of a national organization.

No "real" crime committed.....just a continuation of what's been vowed to end by Bruce Allen.

Show me one instance where the HC has said directly the RGIII "Will start" period. He's cone close but has yet to say so directly. I'm posting this at 4:32 pm on Saturday and might have missed a statement earlier today to that effect, but as of Friday midnight.....nothing from the HC.

Maybe winning a few games does cure all ills in the minds of some, but just as soon as another loss we begin to peer under the rug where the dirt is hidden. Too many posters, including yourself, have taken the position that there is much dysfunction in the FO. Does a two game winning streak truly change that?

From Thursday

Info coming out on tweets seem to indicate that the decision to start Griff is going to be predicated on how his thurs and Fri practices look as well as the 100% healthy situation.

So 2 things to be considered.

It was Dianna Russini who initially tweeted the news that Griff would start based on "sources" close to the team. Not Griffin for the record.

Gruden: if no setbacks, Griffin would start


Keim
Gruden said they've moved rg3 along at a good clip. Said progress he's made to put in with 1s. Intent prepare to be starter

Gruden said is if no setbacks griffin would start. Not final. " everything looks good so far"

 

[Stymietee]

You are certainly bringing more to the table Stymie and you have caused me to rethink this a bit. No doubt it was a mistake, if for competitive reasons alone, to announce this ahead of time. But of course we do not know for sure who leaked it. But even if it was Robert I think this entire thread, let alone suggesting he be benched just to teach him a lesson, is an overreaction and clearly what's not best for the team IMO

It is interesting that you think that reiterating what my original post clearly stated is bringing more. It was YOU and a couple others who followed YOUR insistence that my original post was a dig at RGIII who were wrong. You have insisted that eliminating a key part of my thread, resulting in creating s situation that you have admittedly grown tried of (RGIII bashing) Why don't you admit it? From the beginning you entered this discussion, your take has been it was a dig at RGIII.......It truly NEVER was. YOU and a couple others created this nonsense and you want me to stand down for YOUR misunderstanding??

 

[Stymietee]

From Thursday

Reported on 106.7 The fan that it was a tweet received from RGIII by her. Check with them, that's where I first heard it.

Key words in your responses....."predicated"......."intent"........ "if" all of which mean not definitely.

 

[Stymietee]

ok , dave and tell me a team in the NFL that doesnt have leaks ? answer is none

i dont undertsand why its such a huge issue if it was leaked, even if it was by Rg3 , which there is no hard evidence that it is

you would have to be a moron not to know he had a great chance to start this week

now someone , anyone , show me the Rg3 tweet , show me because i have yet to see it

gruden has strongly indicated that RG3 was going to start all week long and i say strongly hinted because he wasnt trying to tip anything off but if you read between the lines you and everyone else KNEW it was coming

are you of the opinion that the team will sink into the depths of despair and agony because the info was leaked , really ?

do you think we will lose from now to eternity because it was leaked ?

the young 24 yr old qb jeopardized our teams collective future because he "tweeted " he was starting and he has yet again squashed a HC and mind controlled the owner to boot

sorry i dont buy that foolishness

i think a young beat reporter was trying to make a name for herself and get a scoop . i dont have an issue with that at all either but i do have an issue with people making opinion as fact .

FACT ,no tweet has been published , fact its an "unnamed source " which is hardly credible

come back to me when you have facts and not speculation and innuendo

and when you do i will still say BFD , its a non issue

You'll get no argument from anyone that there are leaks from every team in sports. However, you're making a point that you have personally made the distinction between other teams and this one. Good well run organizations have leaks that are well orchestrated to be made public when and if the team is ready to allow them. Bad organizations on the other hand have very little control over leaks and generally leaves others unprepared to support or deny them. How is it that everyone here remembers all of this crap when MS was coach, yet fails to recognize that changing HC's has not stopped this practice?

BTW: Dad, this ISN"T the issue (huge or otherwise) What we are currently talking about is the take by a couple of people that somehow pointing this out is a dig at RGIII. One of the things (Notice I've said ONE) that Shark has spoken about is this allowance of players to break news (or create it) with their public or social media postings. We ALL at one point agreed that it is a sign of a DYSFUNCTIONAL organization and must stop.


You wrote this (above) "are you of the opinion that the team will sink into the depths of despair and agony because the info was leaked , really ? "

"do you think we will lose from now to eternity because it was leaked ?"

"the young 24 yr old qb jeopardized our teams collective future because he "tweeted " he was starting and he has yet again squashed a HC and mind controlled the owner to boot "

"sorry i dont buy that foolishness."

You may not buy that foolishness, but you certainly supported a stand against it when the HC was MS!!!


You also wrote this (above) "FACT ,no tweet has been published , fact its an "unnamed source " which is hardly credible"

"come back to me when you have facts and not speculation and innuendo"



Notice that every credible report about his has not been refuted, I would say that the "unnamed source" was totally credible, which is a problem since no less than Bruce Allen has vowed to stop it!!

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Reported on 106.7 The fan that it was a tweet received from RGIII by her. Check with them, that's where I first heard it.

Key words in your responses....."predicated"......."intent"........ "if" all of which mean not definitely.

For me 'starting unless a setback' for the return of an injured QB is pretty clear and standard for a HC to say when referring to who is starting...

 

[Sportster 72]

It doesn't really matter who leaked it, its a sign of dysfunction. If the QB leaked it, its the worst case scenario.... if it's the water boy or some 3rd string RB, its still not a good sign but its less of deal.

I agree that benching him is not the ideal way to handle it, unless it truly was RGIII that leaked it and that can be proven. Then I would absolutely bench him because he's personally undermining the HC. But without any actual evidence that he did leak it, lets move on.