The Starting Pitching Championship Belt

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Grantland introduced this idea to me by doing the "Championship Belt" for running backs and then quarterbacks (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9488632/bill-barnwell-names-best-qbs-nfl-history). It's a really fun exercise. Basically, you determine who is the "best ____ in the game" for a select period of time while they hold that unofficial title. Who was the best overall player at that position at that moment, and how long did they maintain that level of performance. This doesn't mean they were the absolute best in an individual season, but they had shown a sustained level of dominance to hold the crown.

For instance, the best pitcher in baseball was Zach Greinke for the 2009 MLB season. However, Greinke didn't have the track record of a Roy Halladay. Halladay had been great for years, and was one of the best pitchers in 2009. So he was- arguably- the "Best Pitcher in Baseball" in 2009, even if he wasn't the best that particular season. He had established over the course of several seasons to be the most consistently excellent.

Similarly, I think coming into this season, most would have agreed that Justin Verlander was the "Best Pitcher in Baseball" with Clayton Kershaw hot on his tail. With Verlander's off-year and Kershaw's continued dominance, Kershaw has defeated Verlander for the belt.

So I'd like to open this to the board to start populating the lineage of the "Starting Pitching Championship Belt". I'll start looking at other positions too if this catches on.

2013-present Clayton Kershaw
2011-2013 Justin Verlander
2008-2011 Roy Halladay
2004-2008 Johan Santana
2001-2004 Randy Johnson
1998-2001 Pedro Martinez
1997-1998 Roger Clemens
1992-1997 Greg Maddux
1986-1992 Roger Clemens
1984-1986 Dwight Gooden
1982-1984 Dave Steib
1979-1982 Steve Carlton
1978-1979 Ron Guidry
1975-1978 Tom Seaver
1974-1975 Catfish Hunter
1970-1974 Tom Seaver
1968-1970 Bob Gibson
1967-1968 Jim Bunning
1963-1967 Sandy Koufax
1962-1963 Don Drysdale
1957-1962 Warren Spahn
1955-1957 Don Newcombe
1954-1955 Early Wynn
1950-1954 Robin Roberts
1949-1950 Bob Lemon
1947-1949 Bob Feller
1944-1947 Hal Newhouser
1942-1944 Mort Cooper
1940-1941 Bucky Walters
1939-1940 Bob Feller
1937-1939 Red Ruffing
1930-1937 Lefty Grove
1924-1930 Dazzy Vance
1923-1924 Urban Shocker
1921-1923 Red Faber
1920-1921 Pete Alexander
1919-1920 Walter Johnson
1916-1918 Pete Alexander
1910-1916 Walter Johnson
1907-1910 Christy Mathewson
1906-1907 Mordecai Brown
1903-1906 Christy Mathewson
1902-1903 Rube Waddell
1899-1902 Cy Young
1897-1899 Kid Nichols
1895-1897 Cy Young
1894-1895 Amos Rusie
1892-1894 Cy Young
1890-1892 Kid Nichols
1885-1889 John Clarkson
1883-1885 Old Hoss Radbourn
1882-1883 Larry Corcoran
1881-1882 Jim McCormick
1880-1881 Monte Ward
1876-1880 Tommy Bond
1871-1876 Al Spalding

Toughts? Suggestions? Contributions? Boredom?

 

[steveringo]

Well, you'e done most of the work for us...

At first glance I was thinking Felix Hernadez would be one of the recent bests... But I'm not sure where to squeze him in....

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Well, you'e done most of the work for us...

At first glance I was thinking Felix Hernadez would be one of the recent bests... But I'm not sure where to squeze him in....

Yeah, probably between Halladay and Verlander.

Actually, I left out Lincecum too.

See, that's the point. I'm open for interpretation and recommended revisions.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I forgot Sabathia, too for the 18 or so months that he pitched like a god. I still think Halladay was right there headed into the 2011 season, though, so I awarded him a co-championship with Felix.

2013-present Clayton Kershaw
2011-2013 Justin Verlander
2010-2011 Felix Hernandez & Roy Halladay (co-champions)
2009-2010 Tim Lincecum
2008-2009 Roy Halladay
2007-2008 CC Sabathia
2004-2007 Johan Santana
2001-2004 Randy Johnson
1998-2001 Pedro Martinez
1997-1998 Roger Clemens
1992-1997 Greg Maddux
1986-1992 Roger Clemens
1984-1986 Dwight Gooden
1982-1984 Dave Steib
1979-1982 Steve Carlton
1978-1979 Ron Guidry
1975-1978 Tom Seaver
1974-1975 Catfish Hunter
1970-1974 Tom Seaver
1968-1970 Bob Gibson
1967-1968 Jim Bunning
1963-1967 Sandy Koufax
1962-1963 Don Drysdale
1957-1962 Warren Spahn
1955-1957 Don Newcombe
1954-1955 Early Wynn
1950-1954 Robin Roberts
1949-1950 Bob Lemon
1947-1949 Bob Feller
1944-1947 Hal Newhouser
1942-1944 Mort Cooper
1940-1941 Bucky Walters
1939-1940 Bob Feller
1937-1939 Red Ruffing
1930-1937 Lefty Grove
1924-1930 Dazzy Vance
1923-1924 Urban Shocker
1921-1923 Red Faber
1920-1921 Pete Alexander
1919-1920 Walter Johnson
1916-1918 Pete Alexander
1910-1916 Walter Johnson
1907-1910 Christy Mathewson
1906-1907 Mordecai Brown
1903-1906 Christy Mathewson
1902-1903 Rube Waddell
1899-1902 Cy Young
1897-1899 Kid Nichols
1895-1897 Cy Young
1894-1895 Amos Rusie
1892-1894 Cy Young
1890-1892 Kid Nichols
1885-1889 John Clarkson
1883-1885 Old Hoss Radbourn
1882-1883 Larry Corcoran
1881-1882 Jim McCormick
1880-1881 Monte Ward
1876-1880 Tommy Bond
1871-1876 Al Spalding

 

[Teal Swordsman]

For longer reigning champions, you'd probably have to go to other positions. I have to commend you for the work with pitchers though. That's probably the hardest task with so many pitchers annually and historically to look at.

For sake of good MLB discussions on this website, you may want to throw a new position out there from time to time.

There is one tricky part when you get to the days before Jackie Robinson and the inclusion of African-American ballplayers. Maybe naming 2 champions - 1 MLB and 1 Negroe League Champion to be fair. Not looking to start a race debate, but let's be honest, we all know that there were a lot of star players in the Negroe Leagues that would have also been stars in MLB if given the chance.

I've even talked often about how your Yankees could have been even more dominant during the days of Ruth and Gehrig because they very likely would have been the team to get the likes of Josh Gibson too.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

For longer reigning champions, you'd probably have to go to other positions. I have to commend you for the work with pitchers though. That's probably the hardest task with so many pitchers annually and historically to look at.

For sake of good MLB discussions on this website, you may want to throw a new position out there from time to time.

There is one tricky part when you get to the days before Jackie Robinson and the inclusion of African-American ballplayers. Maybe naming 2 champions - 1 MLB and 1 Negroe League Champion to be fair. Not looking to start a race debate, but let's be honest, we all know that there were a lot of star players in the Negroe Leagues that would have also been stars in MLB if given the chance.

I've even talked often about how your Yankees could have been even more dominant during the days of Ruth and Gehrig because they very likely would have been the team to get the likes of Josh Gibson too.

I fully plan on doing the other positions as well.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

For longer reigning champions, you'd probably have to go to other positions. I have to commend you for the work with pitchers though. That's probably the hardest task with so many pitchers annually and historically to look at.

For sake of good MLB discussions on this website, you may want to throw a new position out there from time to time.

There is one tricky part when you get to the days before Jackie Robinson and the inclusion of African-American ballplayers. Maybe naming 2 champions - 1 MLB and 1 Negroe League Champion to be fair. Not looking to start a race debate, but let's be honest, we all know that there were a lot of star players in the Negroe Leagues that would have also been stars in MLB if given the chance.

I've even talked often about how your Yankees could have been even more dominant during the days of Ruth and Gehrig because they very likely would have been the team to get the likes of Josh Gibson too.

It's hard to do the ***** League players because there was no direct competition other than offseason exhibitions and because of the inexact statistical record, though I agree it's not terribly fair to exclude them either. We can only make educated guesses. From now on, I'll add a HM for ***** Leaguers during the appropriate time periods.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Someone posted this analogue to this for NFL QBs: Bill Barnwell names the best QBs throughout NFL history - Grantland

One thing that I find surprising in comparing the two lists is that both consist of right around the same number of "belt holders" for the period dating from around 1959 to the present. I would have figured that the list for pitchers would consist of quite a few more guys than does the list of QBs, since it seems to me that the variance in performance levels from year to year is far greater among baseball players than it is among football players.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Someone posted this analogue to this for NFL QBs: Bill Barnwell names the best QBs throughout NFL history - Grantland

One thing that I find surprising in comparing the two lists is that both consist of right around the same number of "belt holders" for the period dating from around 1959 to the present. I would have figured that the list for pitchers would consist of quite a few more guys than does the list of QBs, since it seems to me that the variance in performance levels from year to year is far greater among baseball players than it is among football players.

Dude... did you not read the opening paragraph of the first post?

 

[TDs3nOut]

Dude... did you not read the opening paragraph of the first post?

I did read it. What makes you think otherwise?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I did read it. What makes you think otherwise?

I specifically linked the Grantland article.

 

[JR Hart]

Great stuff. No surprise that W Johnson and Grove had long runs with the belt. But to see Dazzy Vance with a six year reign! That's a guy who flies under the radar. In his peak that you note, he was terrific.

 

[da55bums]

so Kershaw was worse than Verlander in 2012? guess that could go either way but would take Kershaw in a heart beat over JV in 2012...the kid was dominate at an age where most are not...

was at least hoping Fernadomania was listed for at least a year...lol

 

[StanMarsh51]

so Kershaw was worse than Verlander in 2012? guess that could go either way but would take Kershaw in a heart beat over JV in 2012...the kid was dominate at an age where most are not...

was at least hoping Fernadomania was listed for at least a year...lol

ERA+, which takes leagues and ballparks (remember, Comerica's been a hitters' park after they moved the fences in a few years back) into account has Verlander at 160 and Kershaw at 150.

Kershaw had a slightly better WHIP (1.02 to 1.06) and K/9 (9.1 to 9.0), but I think when you take parks and leagues into account those leads are negligible.

 

[da55bums]

ERA+, which takes leagues and ballparks (remember, Comerica's been a hitters' park after they moved the fences in a few years back) into account has Verlander at 160 and Kershaw at 150.

Kershaw had a slightly better WHIP (1.02 to 1.06) and K/9 (9.1 to 9.0), but I think when you take parks and leagues into account those leads are negligible.

agree with you Stan...like I said could go either way...but Kershaws age compared to Verlanders is also very impressive.

 

[gunnarthor]

Tough to do these but 08-09 should be Lincecum. 450ip, highest WAR, highest KRate, best ERA+

 

[1905 Giants]

Don't want to seem too picky, but you have Koufax in '67 and he retired after '66

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Don't want to seem too picky, but you have Koufax in '67 and he retired after '66

Yeah, he was champion through the end of the 66 season. Then someone else got the belt at the beginning of the 67 season.

 

[1905 Giants]

Yeah, he was champion through the end of the 66 season. Then someone else got the belt at the beginning of the 67 season.

Got it.

 

[Brahmsian]

I will admit to being biased, but for 2006-2011 Jon Lester deserves consideration.

A 76-34 record for a lefty playing his home games in Fenway Park is meritorious.
His record being below .500 last year had at least as much to do with playing for
an absolutely atrocious manager as anything he was doing wrong himself.

If Bobby Valentine has never managed your team be glad of it. He, as I've said elsewhere,
is CLUELESS about when to relieve tiring pitchers. The worst I've seen in 40 years of following baseball.