Texas Rangers 2022 - 2023 Offseason Thread

[Kelleyman]

Re Heaney. Is it know about last year but in the past for Halos he was hit hard a lot

Need to make room for some young guys l. If we go lower tier would rather have a short term contract

 

[saddles]

We are taking a big gamble on deGrom as it is. We don't need another pitcher in the rotation who is an injury risk without a very big upside.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Him missing so much is a big factor. Besides Otto and Dunning also missed part of the season.

Even if you double Heaney's quality starts he is still behind those guys. Each of them started right at twice as many games as he did.

But Quality Starts is often a poor indicator of success because it relies heavily on number of innings pitched. I’d rather have Heaney leave the game after 5 innings having given up 0 runs than Dunning leave the game after 6 innings having given up 3.

That’s what so makes the stat flawed. So many guys miss out on a quality start by going only 5.2 innings (which still qualifies for a win), while other guys make it maybe 1 inning longer and give up 3 runs and multiple more base runners. If it were a difference of lasting 3 innings vs. 8 innings, that would be significant. But the number of guys who barely get quality starts by going the minimum 6 innings and the number of guys who just miss that threshold by a few outs is staggering.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Re Heaney. Is it know about last year but in the past for Halos he was hit hard a lot

Need to make room for some young guys l. If we go lower tier would rather have a short term contract

Again, as DTC pointed out, Heaney was a changed pitcher with a changed approach last year. He was not the same pitcher who pitched for the Angels. You can’t in one breath say Martin Perez is now a new pitcher because of one season and then deny Heaney the same status. Martin Perez got hit very, very hard in Boston (and with the Rangers in his first go-round). But we’ve seen what a difference he’s made.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

He wouldn’t be my first choice, but he would be a definite upgrade over Odorizzi, Otto, Dunning, or any other pitcher they have for their #5 slot. And he has the definite potential to be better than Perez and Gray as well.

I wouldn't even go as far as saying he's a definite upgrade over a guy like Odorizzi, to be honest. Odorizzi has had a handful of solid- to good seasons - 2014-2017, 2019. First half of last year with the Astros.
Between 2014-2019 he averaged around 165 innings per season, too.

 

[WilltheThrill]

The same could be said of any pitcher couldn't it? Even Perez, Dunning, and Otto. It could be said of any pitcher without the injury concerns as well. There are other pitchers to be had without those concerns.

None of those 3 pitchers have the talent that Heaney does. Say what you want about his inability to pitch late into games. It’s a valid concern. But Heaney is lights out and unhittable at his best. His stuff is on another level than the 3 you mentioned.

 

[WilltheThrill]

I honestly feel like nobody here has watched Andrew Heaney actually pitch. These opinions come across as not having seen him pitch and just relying on looking at stat lines.

Odorizzi, Otto, and Dunning aren’t on his level, and it isn’t particularly close. Saying they are is like saying Perez is on the same level as deGrom because Perez was healthy and lasted deep into games while deGrom missed a lot of games.

There isn’t one GM alive who would take Otto, Dunning, or Odorizzi over Heaney. Not one.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

in my opinion we don't need any more MORPS or BORPS

 

[DTC]

in my opinion we don't need any more MORPS or BORPS

There’s a good chance Heaney could out perform Gray and Perez over the next 3 years

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

 

[Kelleyman]

Again, as DTC pointed out, Heaney was a changed pitcher with a changed approach last year. He was not the same pitcher who pitched for the Angels. You can’t in one breath say Martin Perez is now a new pitcher because of one season and then deny Heaney the same status. Martin Perez got hit very, very hard in Boston (and with the Rangers in his first go-round). But we’ve seen what a difference he’s made.

Ok I will need to check him out more. Doing the fantasy BB puts you ahead of the curve.
Can use one mor pitcher but need to be selective on length of contract IMO although Perez and Gray will expire soon. Thx and yes the eye test is necessary

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

There’s a good chance Heaney could out perform Gray and Perez over the next 3 years

The issue for me isn't how good Heaney could potentially be. it's that there are better options out there, and I prefer the Rangers chase those.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Since the FO surprisingly seems to be ready to spend as much, if not more, than last year, in order of preference I'd rank Rodón #1, then Senga, then Taillon, anyone else would be ranked below these three.

 

[saddles]

But Heaney is lights out and unhittable at his best. His stuff is on another level than the 3 you mentioned.

He was in an extremely small sample size where he didn't go very deep into games very often.

 

[WilltheThrill]

in my opinion we don't need any more MORPS or BORPS

I agree. But if we did sign Heaney, I would definitely look at it as a big upgrade on our #4 or #5 spot.

But definitely bigger fish to fry.

 

[saddles]

You can’t in one breath say Martin Perez is now a new pitcher because of one season and then deny Heaney the same status.

Sure I can. The innings pitched by each allow me or anyone else to think that. They are not in the same boat at all.

I am not certain that Perez is a changed pitcher, but last year sure seems to indicate that he was. Maybe Heaney is, but he will need to show that over a longer time period to convince me.

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

 

[WilltheThrill]

He was in an extremely small sample size where he didn't go very deep into games very often.

I mean, I agree that his inability to pitch deep into games is a limiting factor in terms of how much of a target he should be.

I’m just speaking in terms of his talent. He was a very high prospect when he debuted with the Angels and it took him a while to realize his potential. At worst he could be a very, very good long man out of the pen. I watched almost every one of his starts, and I’ve watched tons of Otto and Dunning. The difference is blatantly obvious. Heaney is downright nasty in stretches. He just gets way too cute and nibbles, thus raising his pitch counts and removing him from games too early.

Ephland said it well- he’s not someone we should be prioritizing. So I’m not hoping for him. But I would be happy if we signed him to improve the back end of our rotation or bullpen.

 

[armadillooutlaw]

Sure I can. The innings pitched by each allow me or anyone else to think that. They are not in the same boat at all.

I am not certain that Perez is a changed pitcher, but last year sure seems to indicate that he was. Maybe Heaney is, but he will need to show that over a longer time period to convince me.

In nine seasons Heaney has pitched more than 100 innings three times, more than 130 innings once.
He's has talent, no denying it, but he's seldom been healthy and 2018 was his only full-length season.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Sure I can. The innings pitched by each allow me or anyone else to think that. They are not in the same boat at all.

I am not certain that Perez is a changed pitcher, but last year sure seems to indicate that he was. Maybe Heaney is, but he will need to show that over a longer time period to convince me.

It’s not like he just pitched 3 games. It’s a small-ER sample size, but you don’t need 20 starts to see someone just blowing away hitters and posting 0’s across the board.

A larger sample size would be useful to determine what kind of role he could serve for us. But the talent alone is so far and away better than a good number of our pitchers, so he could absolutely find a role somewhere on the staff.