stuff I don't understand

[thecrow124]

So I was just reading the Ervin Santana is about to sign a 1 year deal. I don't really see why a team would sign a draft comp player to a 1 year deal. If it is the Orioles, it will only cost a third round pick, Blue Jays a second rounder, but still I don't see the point. If you are going to give up a pick, why not sign the player for as long as you can sign him for. As for the player, there is nothing good that can come from a 1 year deal. If you play poorly, or get injured you are screwed, if you play well, you find yourself in the same situation. IMO a 1 year deal with a draft comp player makes no sense for anyone.

Another thing that has me scratching my head is Jack Z out in Seattle. He goes out and pays Cano an insane amount of money,but then does nothing. Basically his offseason consists of, the guy that outbid the Yankees for one player, but the Yankees still improved more than Seattle, making the Cano addition look foolish, which by now I should expect from Jack Z. Actually I completely forgot about his addition of 15 first base candidates this offseason, so he did add more than Cano, but still didn't help his club.

Which brings me to the Pirates I guess. I would have to check to be sure, but I think we have 8-9 relievers that have to be on the major league roster or we risk losing them. Yet Neil has done nothing, at least rumored or publicly to address that. I am not knocking what he has done, but you would think there would be some sort of rumor at least. The only guy I remember hearing any trade rumor about was Justin Wilson. I am also not a fan of hiding a starter in the bullpen for any period of time, which is what is likely to happen with Stolmy Pimentel. There isn't really an open spot in the rotation for him, and he is out of options, meaning he will be relegated to the bullpen when he needs to be starting.

This may sound contradictory to what I just said about our relievers, but why would a team, Detroit, trade Doug Foster for a reliever and Prince Fielder for a past his prime second baseman, and we were no where near either one. You would think we could have swung Neil Walker and Jeanmar Gomez/Vin Mazarro for the pair and we would have filled two spots on our roster that would have helped us compete this year, and for years to come.

Anyway, this post was just to raise some questions, illicit some discussion and most importantly waste some time.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

So I was just reading the Ervin Santana is about to sign a 1 year deal. I don't really see why a team would sign a draft comp player to a 1 year deal. If it is the Orioles, it will only cost a third round pick, Blue Jays a second rounder, but still I don't see the point. If you are going to give up a pick, why not sign the player for as long as you can sign him for. As for the player, there is nothing good that can come from a 1 year deal. If you play poorly, or get injured you are screwed, if you play well, you find yourself in the same situation. IMO a 1 year deal with a draft comp player makes no sense for anyone.

Another thing that has me scratching my head is Jack Z out in Seattle. He goes out and pays Cano an insane amount of money,but then does nothing. Basically his offseason consists of, the guy that outbid the Yankees for one player, but the Yankees still improved more than Seattle, making the Cano addition look foolish, which by now I should expect from Jack Z. Actually I completely forgot about his addition of 15 first base candidates this offseason, so he did add more than Cano, but still didn't help his club.

Which brings me to the Pirates I guess. I would have to check to be sure, but I think we have 8-9 relievers that have to be on the major league roster or we risk losing them. Yet Neil has done nothing, at least rumored or publicly to address that. I am not knocking what he has done, but you would think there would be some sort of rumor at least. The only guy I remember hearing any trade rumor about was Justin Wilson. I am also not a fan of hiding a starter in the bullpen for any period of time, which is what is likely to happen with Stolmy Pimentel. There isn't really an open spot in the rotation for him, and he is out of options, meaning he will be relegated to the bullpen when he needs to be starting.

This may sound contradictory to what I just said about our relievers, but why would a team, Detroit, trade Doug Foster for a reliever and Prince Fielder for a past his prime second baseman, and we were no where near either one. You would think we could have swung Neil Walker and Jeanmar Gomez/Vin Mazarro for the pair and we would have filled two spots on our roster that would have helped us compete this year, and for years to come.

Anyway, this post was just to raise some questions, illicit some discussion and most importantly waste some time.

Interesting topics, well, here is my stab at some of it.

First of all, those teams interested in signing Santana to a 1 year deal probably are looking to make the playoffs (The motivation to get to the playoffs should not be underestimated) and see Santana as being a big contributor to that possibility. Secondly, if he does well on said team, they can just recoup the draft pick next offseason nullifying or even gaining from it. The O's could get a 1st round pick from Santana in 2015 after giving up money and a 3rd round pick in 2014.

The M's offseason has indeed been a headscratcher as the last guys on the board so to speak are being taken. Do they deal Franklin still? Are they getting offers for him? Good offers? Maybe they sign Santana; as I mentioned earlier, if a team believes they can make the playoffs, and has a hole in their rotation, they are likely to have some sort of interest in Santana. Knowing that, I wouldn't quite lambast the M's offseason, but it is pretty shady considering what they could have been able to do in theory.

The Prince Fielder trade was simply to save money and replace Infante's production at 2nd base. Additionally, they get to move Austin Jackson down the order and immediately insert Kinsler as the leadoff man. At least, that is what appears to be the case. Many people understand that Prince had a sup-par year by his standards, and arguably, he was even average as a player in general (2.2 fWAR) when one accounts for his awful play at 1st base and decline in his offensive numbers. It makes the trade even easier when a top 20 prospect in Castellanos is available to plug into the infield (specifically 3rd base) defensively. Additionally, the extra money from Fielder can be used to retain Scherzer and/or Cabrera.

The Fister Trade, however, is a bit confusing as it forces out a starter producing well above his pay-grade for his production (4.6 WAR in 2013) and if the reason for trading him was something to do with payroll (See Scherzer and Cabrera) and the other clubs knew it, it might better explain the unimpressive return for such a pitcher due to Dombrowski's very low leverage. Keep in mind, a similar player a trade was centered around, James Shields (4.5 fWAR in 2013) netted AL ROY Wil Myers, top 100 prospect Odorizzi (RHP) a failed SP prospect in Montgomery with numerous control problems, and another prospect who's name currently escapes me. Granted, we are talking about two lopsided trades on opposite ends of the spectrum in talent netted, but it is instructive that Fister should have netted a lot more than a fringe top 100 prospect in Robby Ray, a utility player in Lombardozzi, and a RP in Krol. Another factor could possibly be that Dombrowski simply believes Porcello and/or Smyly are "ready to take the next step" if you will.

 

[element1286]

So I was just reading the Ervin Santana is about to sign a 1 year deal. I don't really see why a team would sign a draft comp player to a 1 year deal. If it is the Orioles, it will only cost a third round pick, Blue Jays a second rounder, but still I don't see the point. If you are going to give up a pick, why not sign the player for as long as you can sign him for. As for the player, there is nothing good that can come from a 1 year deal. If you play poorly, or get injured you are screwed, if you play well, you find yourself in the same situation. IMO a 1 year deal with a draft comp player makes no sense for anyone.

Another thing that has me scratching my head is Jack Z out in Seattle. He goes out and pays Cano an insane amount of money,but then does nothing. Basically his offseason consists of, the guy that outbid the Yankees for one player, but the Yankees still improved more than Seattle, making the Cano addition look foolish, which by now I should expect from Jack Z. Actually I completely forgot about his addition of 15 first base candidates this offseason, so he did add more than Cano, but still didn't help his club.

Which brings me to the Pirates I guess. I would have to check to be sure, but I think we have 8-9 relievers that have to be on the major league roster or we risk losing them. Yet Neil has done nothing, at least rumored or publicly to address that. I am not knocking what he has done, but you would think there would be some sort of rumor at least. The only guy I remember hearing any trade rumor about was Justin Wilson. I am also not a fan of hiding a starter in the bullpen for any period of time, which is what is likely to happen with Stolmy Pimentel. There isn't really an open spot in the rotation for him, and he is out of options, meaning he will be relegated to the bullpen when he needs to be starting.

This may sound contradictory to what I just said about our relievers, but why would a team, Detroit, trade Doug Foster for a reliever and Prince Fielder for a past his prime second baseman, and we were no where near either one. You would think we could have swung Neil Walker and Jeanmar Gomez/Vin Mazarro for the pair and we would have filled two spots on our roster that would have helped us compete this year, and for years to come.

Anyway, this post was just to raise some questions, illicit some discussion and most importantly waste some time.

I agree, if you are going to give up picks, one year isn't enough of an investment to sign a guy.

Think Jack Z has shown he is a terrible GM, with no idea how to construct a team, there was a great article about him a few months ago, how he essentially came in with a "moneyball philosophy" although he never understood the process, but his assistants did. When it didn't work immediately, he went back to what he knew, evaluating players on wins, rbis, etc, and alienating their entire analytics dept in the process.

8-9 major league relievers, I hear what you are saying, but I don't see any reason to trade Justin Wilson just because it's a numbers game. Trade Bryan Morris or Welker, guys who aren't very good.

No idea what happened in the Doug Fister deal, Detroit just dumped him basically. Why would the Pirates want to pay Fielder that deal though? I know the spend more money mantra, but that deal was a two sided salary dump. No way that deal gets made to a team that isn't dumping salary back, unless that team is the Dodgers.

 

[thecrow124]

I agree, if you are going to give up picks, one year isn't enough of an investment to sign a guy.

Think Jack Z has shown he is a terrible GM, with no idea how to construct a team, there was a great article about him a few months ago, how he essentially came in with a "moneyball philosophy" although he never understood the process, but his assistants did. When it didn't work immediately, he went back to what he knew, evaluating players on wins, rbis, etc, and alienating their entire analytics dept in the process.

8-9 major league relievers, I hear what you are saying, but I don't see any reason to trade Justin Wilson just because it's a numbers game. Trade Bryan Morris or Welker, guys who aren't very good.

No idea what happened in the Doug Fister deal, Detroit just dumped him basically. Why would the Pirates want to pay Fielder that deal though? I know the spend more money mantra, but that deal was a two sided salary dump. No way that deal gets made to a team that isn't dumping salary back, unless that team is the Dodgers.

I am not a fan of trading Justin Wilson either, he is the only reliever I remember hearing rumors about though. That is the only reason I brought his name up.

 

[thedddd]

I agree with them all they are all weird choices.

With Santana my only thought is he was worried no one would make him another offer until have the draft so he took the only one he got and the team who made the offer knew he would.

With Seattle when your big signing is still worried they need another bat it isn't good. But didn't they not bring in the fences where Cano's power is? If so he isn't going to add enough value.

Read that one fantasy article that states the 3 hitters with the most runs scored over the last 3-4 years are going to be 1,2 and 3 in the Tigers lineup now. The point to Kinsler I guess was to give them a chance to move Jackson down in the lineup.
With the Fister trade it makes no sense with Cabrera at 1st they will almost guaranteed have a better fielding 3B. That deal I think will hurt the Tigers and the Nationals got a great steal. As for the Pirates it is mind numbing in the fact they have more talent for Fister.

Finally if the Pirates lose a RP to waivers due to being out of options then NH blew it again.

 

[steelparrot]

I agree with them all they are all weird choices.

With Santana my only thought is he was worried no one would make him another offer until have the draft so he took the only one he got and the team who made the offer knew he would.

With Seattle when your big signing is still worried they need another bat it isn't good. But didn't they not bring in the fences where Cano's power is? If so he isn't going to add enough value.

Read that one fantasy article that states the 3 hitters with the most runs scored over the last 3-4 years are going to be 1,2 and 3 in the Tigers lineup now. The point to Kinsler I guess was to give them a chance to move Jackson down in the lineup.
With the Fister trade it makes no sense with Cabrera at 1st they will almost guaranteed have a better fielding 3B. That deal I think will hurt the Tigers and the Nationals got a great steal. As for the Pirates it is mind numbing in the fact they have more talent for Fister.

Finally if the Pirates lose a RP to waivers due to being out of options then NH blew it again.

That was the big reason for moving Fielder.

If we end spring training with 0 hurt major league pitchers, i'll lose no sleep over the returns for Morris and Oliver.

 

[thedddd]

The Santana deal with the Braves makes sense now. He was smart to wait out for a team desperate for pitching so he got a one year deal and a good payday. I assume his hope is to come into a good situation put up good enough numbers and go into next year for a long term deal.