Question for the Hooplans that follow HS Football

[BTHOtu]

Comparing how the defenses in the B12 and TAMU have been waning over the past couple of decades, is this a Texas HS thing? How many defensive recruits do the Bama's and LSU's really get from Texas?

I've noticed that most HS have gone full air-raid and I would get mad when I see all the skill positions that we recruit from Texas but not too many DL's and LB's Is this because High Schools put more of an emphasis on the gaudy numbers and points over building good defenses?

I don't know. Haven't really followed it much since I played HS football.

 

[Deep Creek]

Comparing how the defenses in the B12 and TAMU have been waning over the past couple of decades, is this a Texas HS thing? How many defensive recruits do the Bama's and LSU's really get from Texas?

I've noticed that most HS have gone full air-raid and I would get mad when I see all the skill positions that we recruit from Texas but not too many DL's and LB's Is this because High Schools put more of an emphasis on the gaudy numbers and points over building good defenses?

I don't know. Haven't really followed it much since I played HS football.

Good question. Texas puts out a ton of good to great quarterbacks, receivers, running backs and some offensive lineman. But only a few on the defensive side...especially defensive linemen. And the vast majority of DBs can cover a receiver much less tackle a ball carrier. It is not like they don't practice against good passing or see it in games all the frickin' time in HS.

I blame 7 on 7. Just touch 'em and they are down.

 

[GoldRusher]

The old adage of "defense wins championships" doesn't apply to HS ball as much but "offense puts butts in seats" does and IMO HS AD's have figured out that you can have both on the HS level. Most really talented HS players want the glory of being on offense and most HS players have a REALLY hard time stopping even a semi sophisticated offense anyway so the studs look THAT much better when they play against those defensive players and it breeds even more desire to play offense. The coaches want the studs, the AD want the filled seats and are willing to let them play wherever they wish as long as its for them.

JMO but I don't think Texas is the only place its happening and the Big12 isn't the only offense heavy league. Look at the PAC and ACC and who/what is winning their conferences? Offense, its not that the defenses are THAT bad (though some are in any league) but the offense and the players in general out of HS on that side of the ball are THAT good to go along with rule changes that have benefitted that side of the game.

 

[Wild Turkey]

There are 3 main things affecting high school defensive players:

1. We live in a PC Bro society that rewards mediocrity and stops a lot of these kids from reaching their potential. There is a necessary "nasty attitude" that is needed to play in the trenches and kids are losing that.

2. Offensive lines zone block and don't fire off so many of these kids spend their whole career without an offensive lineman "pan caking" them.

3. The linebacker position is disappearing. Kids that would have played linebacker are now for the most part secondary players due to the evolution of the spread.

In other words kids don't know how to properly defend the run at the next level.

 

[theboardref]

Comparing how the defenses in the B12 and TAMU have been waning over the past couple of decades, is this a Texas HS thing? How many defensive recruits do the Bama's and LSU's really get from Texas?

I've noticed that most HS have gone full air-raid and I would get mad when I see all the skill positions that we recruit from Texas but not too many DL's and LB's Is this because High Schools put more of an emphasis on the gaudy numbers and points over building good defenses?

I don't know. Haven't really followed it much since I played HS football.

I think LSU has gotten a lot of DB's out of Texas, some linebackers. That is off the top of my head though. Louisiana produces the talent at both positions so unless their is like really special talent, going out of state isn't a necessity.

 

[8085sooner]

There are 3 main things affecting high school defensive players:

1. We live in a PC Bro society that rewards mediocrity and stops a lot of these kids from reaching their potential. There is a necessary "nasty attitude" that is needed to play in the trenches and kids are losing that.

2. Offensive lines zone block and don't fire off so many of these kids spend their whole career without an offensive lineman "pan caking" them.

3. The linebacker position is disappearing. Kids that would have played linebacker are now for the most part secondary players due to the evolution of the spread.

In other words kids don't know how to properly defend the run at the next level.

I disagree on point #3

The linebacker position has transitioned into more of a Hybrid DE



The best HS DT came out of Houston last year

 

[theboardref]

There are 3 main things affecting high school defensive players:

1. We live in a PC Bro society that rewards mediocrity and stops a lot of these kids from reaching their potential. There is a necessary "nasty attitude" that is needed to play in the trenches and kids are losing that.

2. Offensive lines zone block and don't fire off so many of these kids spend their whole career without an offensive lineman "pan caking" them.

3. The linebacker position is disappearing. Kids that would have played linebacker are now for the most part secondary players due to the evolution of the spread.

In other words kids don't know how to properly defend the run at the next level.

I agree to an extent about linebackers. It is more like everyone is a hybrid lb/db so like all outside linebacker types. Big, strong, physical middle linebackers are hard to come by. And even if you have them, the move to the next level is baffling because all they have seen is the spread. I broadcast hs games and in 11 games every oposing team ran a form of spread. The team I cover would mix in wildcat, but is prone to I-form run the ball at you. This team is significantly smaller (including a 22-0 win over a school with more enrollment and a 6'6 and 6'7 dlinemen) yet still bully defensive lines. Why? They never see this shit.

 

[VU63]

no clue on Texas HS football, but outside of QB and maybe OL it doesn't take a super smart guy to run the football or run a pass route, but on Defense you have to see what's happening and react to it, maybe that's why we tend to have a much better D than our O?

 

[theboardref]

The old adage of "defense wins championships" doesn't apply to HS ball as much but "offense puts butts in seats" does and IMO HS AD's have figured out that you can have both on the HS level. Most really talented HS players want the glory of being on offense and most HS players have a REALLY hard time stopping even a semi sophisticated offense anyway so the studs look THAT much better when they play against those defensive players and it breeds even more desire to play offense. The coaches want the studs, the AD want the filled seats and are willing to let them play wherever they wish as long as its for them.

JMO but I don't think Texas is the only place its happening and the Big12 isn't the only offense heavy league. Look at the PAC and ACC and who/what is winning their conferences? Offense, its not that the defenses are THAT bad (though some are in any league) but the offense and the players in general out of HS on that side of the ball are THAT good to go along with rule changes that have benefitted that side of the game.

Neither does special teams. Especially since this joke of a format in Louisiana where out of 250 schools we have 9 championships. The public schools title games are laughable at times. One team lined up to kick off and the ball hit 5 yards forward and freaking rolled back 10 yards. An impressive level of shittiness... ih and that team went on to be named the champions*.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I agree to an extent about linebackers. It is more like everyone is a hybrid lb/db so like all outside linebacker types. Big, strong, physical middle linebackers are hard to come by. And even if you have them, the move to the next level is baffling because all they have seen is the spread. I broadcast hs games and in 11 games every oposing team ran a form of spread. The team I cover would mix in wildcat, but is prone to I-form run the ball at you. This team is significantly smaller (including a 22-0 win over a school with more enrollment and a 6'6 and 6'7 dlinemen) yet still bully defensive lines. Why? They never see this shit.

I broadcast HS games as well and the team I cover plays an old school I formation, offensive line fires off every play and they are one of the few dinosaurs that actually huddle anymore (that's not a joke no one huddles).

What I see are opposing defensive lines get pretty worn down because they aren't used to being hit every play and if they don't have depth and it's close in the 4th it's a real advantage. Since it's a run oriented, time consuming, grinding offensive it taxes the opposing teams defense considerably. It's hard for the other teams to practice for us because their offensive linemen don't have the skills or knowledge to replicate the offense.

On the flip side if we get down considerably it's extremely hard to make it up without defensive turnovers.

 

[BTHOtu]

My last HS season was 1990. We got a new HC that ran the run and shoot offense. OL with only 3-point stance. Silent counts lots of shot gun. Pretty radical for us considering we came from the old Tom Landry Down-Set-Hut offense with lots of terminology and complicated assignments.

We still put more of an emphasis on defense hitting and tackling.

 

[BTHOtu]

I just thought it was interesting with all good QB's and skill players on the offensive side on the collegiate level coming from Texas. I don't notice a bunch on the other side of the ball.

 

[theboardref]

I broadcast HS games as well and the team I cover plays an old school I formation, offensive line fires off every play and they are one of the few dinosaurs that actually huddle anymore (that's not a joke no one huddles).

What I see are opposing defensive lines get pretty worn down because they aren't used to being hit every play and if they don't have depth and it's close in the 4th it's a real advantage. Since it's a run oriented, time consuming, grinding offensive it taxes the opposing teams defense considerably. It's hard for the other teams to practice for us because their offensive linemen don't have the skills or knowledge to replicate the offense.

On the flip side if we get down considerably it's extremely hard to make it up without defensive turnovers.

Didn't know you were a fellow broadcaster. Cheers.

 

[Deep Creek]

The best HS DT came out of Houston last year

True, but there isn't as many DLs proportionally as other positions. Or at least it seems that way.

 

[Deep Creek]

Neither does special teams. Especially since this joke of a format in Louisiana where out of 250 schools we have 9 championships. The public schools title games are laughable at times. One team lined up to kick off and the ball hit 5 yards forward and freaking rolled back 10 yards. An impressive level of shittiness... ih and that team went on to be named the champions*.

Well, we don't have shit like that after the first rounds of the playoffs. But, the first rounds are probably worse than what you describe. As part of that "everyone gets a trophy" mentality (along with the almight desire for revenue) all you have to do is finish in the top 3 or 4 in your district to make the playoffs! There are some real lopsided scores in that first round of playoff because of it. #1 plays #4 from the next district. But, after one round most of the riff raff is out and things get good in a hurry.

 

[Deep Creek]

My last HS season was 1990.

Whippersnapper.

 

[theboardref]

Well, we don't have shit like that after the first rounds of the playoffs. But, the first rounds are probably worse than what you describe. As part of that "everyone gets a trophy" mentality (along with the almight desire for revenue) all you have to do is finish in the top 3 or 4 in your district to make the playoffs! There are some real lopsided scores in that first round of playoff because of it. #1 plays #4 from the next district. But, after one round most of the riff raff is out and things get good in a hurry.

Nope pretty much everyone is in the playoffs. Every trophy comes with an asterisk.

 

[theboardref]

Well, we don't have shit like that after the first rounds of the playoffs. But, the first rounds are probably worse than what you describe. As part of that "everyone gets a trophy" mentality (along with the almight desire for revenue) all you have to do is finish in the top 3 or 4 in your district to make the playoffs! There are some real lopsided scores in that first round of playoff because of it. #1 plays #4 from the next district. But, after one round most of the riff raff is out and things get good in a hurry.

Some stats I just whipped up from the LHSAA's joke of a playoff system.

Out of 294 schools, 2016 will compete in the playoffs, so that is 73.4% of schools.
Of those, 64 schools out of 216 in the playoffs have losing records.
That number increases to 84 out of 216 when talking about teams with a .500 record or below, number jumps up nearly 10 percent to 38.8%. In the lowest classifications in the public bracket, half of the teams competing in 2A are .500 or below, and if you take out that team with a .500, 15 of 32 teams have sub .500 records. One of the schools in 2A is WINLESS. In 1A OVER HALF of the teams competing have sub .500 records, 22 out of 32 teams. 68.7% of teams competing are worse than .500, tack on one more and 23 teams have .500 or worse records.

 

[Deep Creek]

Some stats I just whipped up from the LHSAA's joke of a playoff system.

Out of 294 schools, 2016 will compete in the playoffs, so that is 73.4% of schools.
Of those, 64 schools out of 216 in the playoffs have losing records.
That number increases to 84 out of 216 when talking about teams with a .500 record or below, number jumps up nearly 10 percent to 38.8%. In the lowest classifications in the public bracket, half of the teams competing in 2A are .500 or below, and if you take out that team with a .500, 15 of 32 teams have sub .500 records. One of the schools in 2A is WINLESS. In 1A OVER HALF of the teams competing have sub .500 records, 22 out of 32 teams. 68.7% of teams competing are worse than .500, tack on one more and 23 teams have .500 or worse records.

Wow. Not sure ours is that bad but I do know of a 1-9 team that got in.

PLayoffs start this week. I'll see if I can compile something similar.

 

[Wild Turkey]

I disagree on point #3

The linebacker position has transitioned into more of a Hybrid DE



The best HS DT came out of Houston last year

We actually agree. The point is the inside LB position is disappearing period and that is keeping kids from learning how to defend the middle. Everything is spread and get wide in today's HS offenses. There are very few 3 yards and a cloud of dust type offenses.

If you do find a running oriented offense it is typicall zone read out of the shot gun.

In 10 years there will be kids that won't know what a huddle is or how to actually take a snap from under center.