Props to Bob

[Stymietee]

Who are all of these "open" receiver that he has to choose from? Think about that for a moment. There's Garcon who is easily checked by one DB.......DJax, who's main routes are the WR screen, out and deep pass, which in most cases will get him doubled. Roberts, who drops more than he catches and Reed, who does get open but is rarely the first option.


I'm not sure what you guys want from a QB, but, it seems that you want a guy with a quick accurate release, reads perfectly, runs but doesn't run, needs no time to become the player you desire, has supreme confidence in himself yet all of his public utterances are those of a very seasoned veteran and not the result of his youth. Meets or exceeds the expectations that comes with a willingness to pay a kings ransom to get him. Does not take advantage of economic opportunities as they present themselves in the event that he might be injured, doesn't perform well or does not fit into either system that he's thrust into for the 3 short (injury riddled) seasons he's been getting paid. Above all of this, he does these things despite inadequate preparation from anyone within the organization, or without the proper team around him.


Maybe my age defies the times, but there is such a thing as reasonable thought. In this case where there is a raw talent that needs time to become properly prepared for the system(s) he's supposed to lead, it was both unreasonable and thoughtless to not allow for that time..... NO?...... then explain this, Why are so many now convinced that benching him was probably the best thing that's happened to him?

 

[Sharkinva]

Who are all of these "open" receiver that he has to choose from? Think about that for a moment. There's Garcon who is easily checked by one DB.......DJax, who's main routes are the WR screen, out and deep pass, which in most cases will get him doubled. Roberts, who drops more than he catches and Reed, who does get open but is rarely the first option.


I'm not sure what you guys want from a QB, but, it seems that you want a guy with a quick accurate release, reads perfectly, runs but doesn't run, needs no time to become the player you desire, has supreme confidence in himself yet all of his public utterances are those of a very seasoned veteran and not the result of his youth. Meets or exceeds the expectations that comes with a willingness to pay a kings ransom to get him. Does not take advantage of economic opportunities as they present themselves in the event that he might be injured, doesn't perform well or does not fit into either system that he's thrust into in his 3 short seasons he's been getting paid. Above all of this, he does these things despite inadequate preparation from anyone within the organization, or without the proper team around him.


Maybe my age defies the times, but there is such a thing as reasonable thought. In this case where there is a raw talent that needs time to become properly prepared for the system(s) he's supposed to lead, it was both unreasonable and thoughtless to not to allow for that time. NO? then explain this, Why are so many now convinced that benching him was probably the best thing that's happened to him?

So in short, we want our supposed franchise QB to actually BE a franchise QB. How is this too much to ask?? And his benching was the best ting for him because maybe, just maybe it deflated his ego enough for him to actually realize he does need to actually learn to be more than a backyard QB.

 

[Stymietee]

So in short, we want our supposed franchise QB to actually BE a franchise QB. How is this too much to ask?? And his benching was the best ting for him because maybe, just maybe it deflated his ego enough for him to actually realize he does need to actually learn to be more than a backyard QB.

Franchise QB's are made not born, is this not true? Well, tell me who made him into the QB that fit this prototypical system? You cannot name one franchise QB who didn't have growing pains.....ever!! In short, people want what they want, not what they have. BTW: Isn't it equally true that sitting him post draft
might have done the same thing, and afforded he and his coaches time to properly prepare him?

 

[Sharkinva]

Franchise QB's are made not born, is this not true? Well, tell me who made him into the QB that fit this prototypical system? You cannot name one franchise QB who didn't have growing pains.....ever!! In short, people want what they want, not what they have. BTW: Isn't it equally true that sitting him post draft
might have done the same thing, and afforded he and his coaches time to properly prepare him?

The problem here is that we paid for him as if he were a finished product. If you walked into the local store to buy the latest big screen HD3D Surround sound TV, paid four times the price then got a box of parts and an instruction manual that said you MIGHT be able to assemble it correctly... would you simply smile and roll with it??

And to answer your question NO I dont think sitting him would have done a bit of good. He believed coming in that he was ready and didnt need to adjust his game. So if its take two years of him actually failing on the field to finally realize he does need to adjust his game and take coaching, what makes you think him sitting behind Rex Grossman would have had any real effect on him??

 

[j_y19]

Who are all of these "open" receiver that he has to choose from? Think about that for a moment. There's Garcon who is easily checked by one DB.......DJax, who's main routes are the WR screen, out and deep pass, which in most cases will get him doubled. Roberts, who drops more than he catches and Reed, who does get open but is rarely the first option.


I'm not sure what you guys want from a QB, but, it seems that you want a guy with a quick accurate release, reads perfectly, runs but doesn't run, needs no time to become the player you desire, has supreme confidence in himself yet all of his public utterances are those of a very seasoned veteran and not the result of his youth. Meets or exceeds the expectations that comes with a willingness to pay a kings ransom to get him. Does not take advantage of economic opportunities as they present themselves in the event that he might be injured, doesn't perform well or does not fit into either system that he's thrust into for the 3 short (injury riddled) seasons he's been getting paid. Above all of this, he does these things despite inadequate preparation from anyone within the organization, or without the proper team around him.


Maybe my age defies the times, but there is such a thing as reasonable thought. In this case where there is a raw talent that needs time to become properly prepared for the system(s) he's supposed to lead, it was both unreasonable and thoughtless to not allow for that time..... NO?...... then explain this, Why are so many now convinced that benching him was probably the best thing that's happened to him?

Sty, while I don't disagree in principle with has you state, you are missing one critical component in the analysis. That is the QB's responsibility in becoming a franchise QB. Its more than just talk, its commitment. In Robert's case that commitment is to endeavors that are different than he has ever had to undertake before. Specifically commitment in the learning process. He has always been able to get by on his raw ability and excel by focusing on developing his physical skills. Robert came in thinking he knew it all. Both on the field and in life. This is evidenced by his early social media posts and his chaffing at what 2 coaching regimes have tried to instill in him. So maybe it did take a legitimate benching by Gruden to awaken this understanding that he cannot get by in the NFL doing and training the same way he has always done. Only time will tell.

 

[Stymietee]

The problem here is that we paid for him as if he were a finished product. If you walked into the local store to buy the latest big screen HD3D Surround sound TV, paid four times the price then got a box of parts and an instruction manual that said you MIGHT be able to assemble it correctly... would you simply smile and roll with it??

And to answer your question NO I dont think sitting him would have done a bit of good. He believed coming in that he was ready and didnt need to adjust his game. So if its take two years of him actually failing on the field to finally realize he does need to adjust his game and take coaching, what makes you think him sitting behind Rex Grossman would have had any real effect on him??

First and foremost, I would not have paid 4X the price for him, but even if I had gotten him at a discount price (the K-mart devalued price) I would have no expectations that an off brand name (because he played in a spread) was suitable for the conventional style that is the NFL.

To your second part, So if sitting him would not have accomplished the same thing, starting him right away, must have reconfirmed to him that he was exactly all that everyone, himself included THOUGHT he was. Think about that for a moment, he come into the NFL highly touted, and what happens, he immediately become the starter, even if it is over the likes of Rex et.al. Imagine his thoughts if he were relegated to clipboard holder for a while behind that sorry assed Rex.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty, while I don't disagree in principle with has you state, you are missing one critical component in the analysis. That is the QB's responsibility in becoming a franchise QB. Its more than just talk, its commitment. In Robert's case that commitment is to endeavors that are different than he has ever had to undertake before. Specifically commitment in the learning process. He has always been able to get by on his raw ability and excel by focusing on developing his physical skills. Robert came in thinking he knew it all. Both on the field and in life. This is evidenced by his early social media posts and his chaffing at what 2 coaching regimes have tried to instill in him. So maybe it did take a legitimate benching by Gruden to awaken this understanding that he cannot get by in the NFL doing and training the same way he has always done. Only time will tell.

Again to my point then as now.....would not relegating him to clipboard holder behind Grossman have done the same thing? BTW: with the added bonus of giving him time to realize that he had a lot to learn and time to learn it.

 

[j_y19]

Again to my point then as now.....would not relegating him to clipboard holder behind Grossman have done the same thing? BTW: with the added bonus of giving him time to realize that he had a lot to learn and time to learn it.

Maybe. But I'm not sure that he was in the mental frame at that time (or even now) to take tutelage from the coaches or from a journeyman QB like Rex. He was SuperBob who had it all figured out.

 

[Stymietee]

Maybe. But I'm not sure that he was in the mental frame at that time (or even now) to take tutelage from the coaches or from a journeyman QB like Rex. He was SuperBob who had it all figured out.

Yep, the hubris of youth.......not his fault that he was both young and full of himself. It was however, the responsibility of those who knew the minefield that all of that entails, do everything necessary to temper his youthful, holier than thou posturing. If that included clipboard duty, constant work on his mechanics, film work and public reminders that he is NOT ready then that's what you do! (it happened to Joe Theisman) As I've said maybe it's my age vs. this I want it now generation that blinds me. What's he gonna do?....go tell the owner?......Oh right!!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Maybe. But I'm not sure that he was in the mental frame at that time (or even now) to take tutelage from the coaches or from a journeyman QB like Rex. He was SuperBob who had it all figured out.

That might be a bit harsh. In any case - it is completely naive to believe that just about any NFL team is going to wait a significant amt of time before starting a QB drafted in the top 10 & especially the top 2-3. Remember the Jags stated that they would not start Bortles this season, but they caved in early. Ditto Manziel & just about every QB taken in the 1st round.

Very few potential franchise QBs have the luxury of spending 1+ year on the bench. It happened for certain guys like Brady & Romo only because they were relative unknowns previously & were not drafted high. Rodgers was also in a unique situation where he had to sit behind Favre. The Redskins had no such luxury given their dismal QB situation at the time.

In any case - this is all water under the bridge. The team & the fans need to move on. RG3 will now have another shot & he needs to make the best of it or go elsewhere. Also - to believe that he doesn't miss open targets nor have good fundamentals at the current time is just outright BS. He needs to start to correct these flaws over the coming offseason. I believe that he can, but it is certainly not a given. Should be exciting.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sty... you are to a degree living in the past. With the advent of free agency, you have a double edge sword. Teams cant afford to spend 5-7 years developing a player because generally the rookie contract is for four years, five if it was a first rounder you are willing to pay a premium for in year five. So lets not pretend it was just the fans. The players wanted this and they got what they wanted, free agency and mega contracts. So every owner and fan is within their rights to expect a guy to perform early and at a high level. If not, said named player will be roasted in short order.

Case in point. We only gave up ONE first round pick for Rak. And despite his 3 probowls, people are done with him because he cant stay healthy.

Now Griffin has cost us 3 firsts, a second and an offensive coaching staff. So I dont think the expectations were that unreasonable.

 

[Stymietee]

That might be a bit harsh. In any case - it is completely naive to believe that just about any NFL team is going to wait a significant amt of time before starting a QB drafted in the top 10 & especially the top 2-3. Remember the Jags stated that they would not start Bortles this season, but they caved in early. Ditto Manziel & just about every QB taken in the 1st round.

Very few potential franchise QBs have the luxury of spending 1+ year on the bench. It happened for certain guys like Brady & Romo only because they were relative unknowns previously & were not drafted high. Rodgers was also in a unique situation where he had to sit behind Favre. The Redskins had no such luxury given their dismal QB situation at the time.

In any case - this is all water under the bridge. The team & the fans need to move on. RG3 will now have another shot & he needs to make the best of it or go elsewhere. Also - to believe that he doesn't miss open targets nor have good fundamentals at the current time is just outright BS. He needs to start to correct these flaws over the coming offseason. I believe that he can, but it is certainly not a given. Should be exciting.

It is a status statement that has more to do with protecting and preparing an asset than the asset himself. OK, let's play it your way, you wrote..."He needs to start to correct these flaws over the coming offseason." So to be clear, the season ends and he works his ass off to correct his "errors" but what if his off season work, left to his own devices still not what's needed nor desired. The whole point is that this organization must not fail him AGAIN!!! His coaches must be intimately involved in his training retraining from plan, implementation, to conclusive satisfaction. NFL rules are not in play here if the program has already been set up or is now being finalized involving a well respected, trusted, organized off season training program. If he comes back ill prepared next season, blame him for not getting it done, NOT for being unaware of what it is that he had to learn!

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... you are to a degree living in the past. With the advent of free agency, you have a double edge sword. Teams cant afford to spend 5-7 years developing a player because generally the rookie contract is for four years, five if it was a first rounder you are willing to pay a premium for in year five. So lets not pretend it was just the fans. The players wanted this and they got what they wanted, free agency and mega contracts. So every owner and fan is within their rights to expect a guy to perform early and at a high level. If not, said named player will be roasted in short order.

Case in point. We only gave up ONE first round pick for Rak. And despite his 3 probowls, people are done with him because he cant stay healthy.

Now Griffin has cost us 3 firsts, a second and an offensive coaching staff. So I dont think the expectations were that unreasonable.

I just got the hook the wife want to do a few things, but I promise to respond when I get back.

 

[j_y19]

It is a status statement that has more to do with protecting and preparing an asset than the asset himself. OK, let's play it your way, you wrote..."He needs to start to correct these flaws over the coming offseason." So to be clear, the season ends and he works his ass off to correct his "errors" but what if his off season work, left to his own devices still not what's needed nor desired. The whole point is that this organization must not fail him AGAIN!!! His coaches must be intimately involved in his training retraining from plan, implementation, to conclusive satisfaction. NFL rules are not in play here if the program has already been set up or is now being finalized involving a well respected, trusted, organized off season training program. If he comes back ill prepared next season, blame him for not getting it done, NOT for being unaware of what it is that he had to learn!

Once again, you refuse to place any onus on the player himself. I can promise you that both coaching regimes gave a very clear development plan to Robert during the offseason. I'm also very sure that the one offseason where he was rehabbing the knee, he was instructed to hit the film room. Well, he did, but unfortunately it was to make a documentary. You also discount the limitations the CBA places on the coaches working with Robert.
IT is not my intention to absolve the coaches from the lack of development in rg3 over the last 3 years. I agree that he probably wasn't done any favors his first year with the way he was handled. But Robert needs to also accept both responsibility and an acknowledgement that he doesn't know what is best. It was just a few short weeks ago that gruden was so frustrated with Robert's unwillingness to work on what gruden was telling him that gruden was (and maybe still is) ready to dump him in the offseason. One coaching regime that has an issue with him could be a fluke or just a personal conflict. Two coaching regimes that have the same issue with the player is more telling. You can pull a student into the classroom, but you can't make him learn. He has got to want to learn.

Finally comparing joe t to rg3 is ridiculous. Joe was a pickup from the CFL and sat behind a HOF QB. Of course he wasn't expected to crack the lineup year 1. RG3 was a number 1 pick that cost this team dearly. He was replacing a journeyman QB who the fans were ready to roast alive. The expectation were and should have been, completely different.

 

[skinsdad62]

Once again, you refuse to place any onus on the player himself. I can promise you that both coaching regimes gave a very clear development plan to Robert during the offseason. I'm also very sure that the one offseason where he was rehabbing the knee, he was instructed to hit the film room. Well, he did, but unfortunately it was to make a documentary. You also discount the limitations the CBA places on the coaches working with Robert.
IT is not my intention to absolve the coaches from the lack of development in rg3 over the last 3 years. I agree that he probably wasn't done any favors his first year with the way he was handled. But Robert needs to also accept both responsibility and an acknowledgement that he doesn't know what is best. It was just a few short weeks ago that gruden was so frustrated with Robert's unwillingness to work on what gruden was telling him that gruden was (and maybe still is) ready to dump him in the offseason. One coaching regime that has an issue with him could be a fluke or just a personal conflict. Two coaching regimes that have the same issue with the player is more telling. You can pull a student into the classroom, but you can't make him learn. He has got to want to learn.

Finally comparing joe t to rg3 is ridiculous. Joe was a pickup from the CFL and sat behind a HOF QB. Of course he wasn't expected to crack the lineup year 1. RG3 was a number 1 pick that cost this team dearly. He was replacing a journeyman QB who the fans were ready to roast alive. The expectation were and should have been, completely different.

, Rg3 needs to take responsibility for the mental side of the game . perhaps he gets a pass for the knee thing in year one but not the following year for sure

not knowing where to set up , missing reads , is stuff that can be corrected by film work . i hope Rg3 gets it and does it .

but i wouldnt give him an extension . he hasnt earned it and i have defended this guy for a long long time virtually by myself

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Totally agree with the last 2 posts. Did Sty really say it wasn't Griffin's fault that he was full of himself? I totally buy into the theory that this year's benching was the best thing for him as well as the team. They simply could not trot a QB out there who was unwilling to pull the trigger on wide open receivers. Griffin hears all the criticism. You know damned well he heard Steve Young's comments. This was a wake up call. Now will he get it? That's the million dollar question. But that is why Saturday was so encouraging. It wasn't a great performance but it was still huge. Virtually everything he had been criticized for he showed improvement.