Game Thread: Penguins GDT/GNT's week 18 (Feb 2 - Feb 8)

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Western Canadian road trip…

Wednesday February 4th @ Edmonton Oilers

Friday February 6th @ Calgary Flames

Saturday February 7th @ Vancouver Canucks

 

[Cyder]

Better put some wins together. The Rangers are creepin up on ya.

 

[scoutyjones2]

4 points from being out of the playoffs...think they can beat he freaking oilers?

 

[Burghfan]

4 points from being out of the playoffs...think they can beat he freaking oilers?

If they slip out of the top 8, should Rutherford fire Johnston? Should Mario fire the both of them?

 

[evolver115]

If they slip out of the top 8, should Rutherford fire Johnston? Should Mario fire the both of them?

I don't know if I'd go that far, considering both of these guys aren't even 82 games into their tenure in Pittsburgh.

Still, this road trip is pretty big for the Pens. You've basically got a lay-up with the Oilers, and then two very tough match-ups with Calgary and Vancouver. Then, it's back home to face the Wings, who are currently above the Pens in the EC standings.

They've gotta show up this week. Even against the Oil, they have to play a 60 minute game, and honestly I don't think I've seen them do that since before the all star break. A pretty different situation for the Pens, who got used to coasting through regular season after regular season, only to be humbled each post-season. Could be a blessing in disguise for them to face some adversity for a change. Really, they haven't faced this type of challenge since they hoisted the cup in 09.

 

[element1286]

If they slip out of the top 8, should Rutherford fire Johnston? Should Mario fire the both of them?

No and no

 

[mtm166]

Thus far, my feeling is that the Pens are not a real good team. They are clearly top-heavy on talent with little, if any, depth on the bottom six. The bottom six they do have essentially brings little offense and little grit or ability to wear other teams down. So, what exactly do they get out their bottom two lines then? Not much. They're dependent on the top six to carry the load and they have not come close, from Sid on down the productivity has lacked. Injuries, again, have taken their toll, but the talent at the top has not delivered. In my mind, Letang and Comeau are the only two who have met/exceeded expectations. Geno has been pretty good, but he can come and go and that's not what you demand of your superstars--it's needed most nights, not periodically. I generally like what the new coaching staff has done. My only complaint is that someone on that staff needs to bite the bullet, bruise an ego or two and seriously tweak the PP. Geno in the right circle, Sid down low. Period. Emphasis on net front traffic and shoot. I'm sick of dancing around the perimeter. If the top unit refuses, then they use the second unit more until the message gets through. I dunno, at this point I can see a first round playoff exit and not much else.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

What a stupid decision to trade our first round pick

 

[element1286]

Organizationally, I agree about the depth issue at forward. But when everyone is healthy, I don't see depth as a problem, although when you have little organization depth injuries really kill the lineup.

Skating with 2-3 non-NHL players per night is really hurting them though, especially when the top six isn't holding their own.

 

[scoutyjones2]

You t fire the coach and GM...yet. Johnston is a good coach, question is, what the fuck happened from the start of the season?


Truly believe they miss a player like Duper.


This team needs to nut it up and show some character and moxie for a change. Sid needs to prove he's the best player in the NHL and not some scrub turnover, non shooting machine. Getting Malkin back is huge...no excuses with him back

 

[element1286]

You t fire the coach and GM...yet. Johnston is a good coach, question is, what the fuck happened from the start of the season?


Truly believe they miss a player like Duper.


This team needs to nut it up and show some character and moxie for a change. Sid needs to prove he's the best player in the NHL and not some scrub turnover, non shooting machine. Getting Malkin back is huge...no excuses with him back

Duper is a loss for sure.

Read a couple of things that Johnston simplified things (compared to DB's system) on the breakout, and teams have it figured out, and he hasn't expanded enough through the extra wrinkles needed to keep teams guessing.

Two schools of thought being, do you want to add to a foundation that isn't completely built yet and risk crumbling the foundation, or is the lack of success they are having hurting even more. I really don't have an answer to either question. I don't doubt that Johnston has thought this through though. He knows the angles, whether or not he pushes the right buttons at the right times is another question.

I definitely think it's an upgrade over DB, who I don't think had the depth of tactical knowledge that Johnston has.

 

[evolver115]

Organizationally, I agree about the depth issue at forward. But when everyone is healthy, I don't see depth as a problem, although when you have little organization depth injuries really kill the lineup.

Skating with 2-3 non-NHL players per night is really hurting them though, especially when the top six isn't holding their own.

Agree with the bolded. Missing Comeau and Hornqvist has taken its toll on them. Spaling is playing out of position, and guys like Sill and Arcobello getting meaningful minutes is a waste of time. Not to mention the slump Brandon Sutter currently finds himself in, which is absolutely killing them right now.

This was Shero's parting gift that he left for JR to attempt to clean up. There is nothing in the minors of the organization in forward depth that is worth talking about. Kapanen is really all there is, and he's not ready to make the jump, yet.

Just have to hope that the recent return of Hornqvist, and the expected return of Comeau will help distribute the talent across all four lines, which I think it probably will.

 

[element1286]

Think this shows that the real error in drafting wasn't the defensemen, but the type of forwards they were taking, mainly small, skilled guys who had to produce points to be NHL players. They should have taken more guys who profiled as good bottom six forwards.

 

[pixburgher66]

Think this shows that the real error in drafting wasn't the defensemen, but the type of forwards they were taking, mainly small, skilled guys who had to produce points to be NHL players. They should have taken more guys who profiled as good bottom six forwards.

Yeah, but you don't draft a "profiles as bottom six" guy in the early rounds. Trading draft picks may simply be catching up to them. Shero may have had some great "big trades", but he was terrible at the rental trades. His spending spree in 2013 was just so awful. I wasn't exactly thrilled with it at the time (outside of my giddiness at getting Iggy), but in retrospect it looks even worse. Shero wasn't an awful GM by any means, but he was not a good drafter or minor trade guy.

 

[pixburgher66]

Also: it's easy to get freaked out about the state of the team, and I'm starting to turn on MJ, but not for his system. The system is good...but his player usage is NOT. He's doing the same thing as Bylsma seemed to, although Blysma's bigger issue was the system he never adjusted from, in that he overvalues grit/tenacity and undervalues skill. Grit guys that can cycle the puck and possess it, those you want. Grit guys that chase the puck and hit a lot (because they don't have the puck) you don't. He keeps putting Sill and Adams out there, but undervalues Beau Bennett and it's maddening. Bennett was a healthy scratch (which I wasn't a fan of, but whatever), then the next game (after reportedly working his ass off in practice) he's trotted out with Sutter and given 10 minutes of ice time. Playing with Sutter is expected because he was seen as the 2C in that game, which is sad based on his year, but you can't expect him to do much in regard to producing on offense with Sutter and only getting on the ice for 10 minutes.

Bennett has had a good year possession wise, despite inconsistent line mates and injury. Offense happens when you have the puck...not when you send out guys who are simply useless like Sill/Adams. I bring this up again because it looks like Bennett may be out again tonight. It's speculation but he stayed on after the morning skate to work more, which typically indicates a scratch.

 

[element1286]

Yeah, but you don't draft a "profiles as bottom six" guy in the early rounds. Trading draft picks may simply be catching up to them. Shero may have had some great "big trades", but he was terrible at the rental trades. His spending spree in 2013 was just so awful. I wasn't exactly thrilled with it at the time (outside of my giddiness at getting Iggy), but in retrospect it looks even worse. Shero wasn't an awful GM by any means, but he was not a good drafter or minor trade guy.

It's a fair point, but only to a degree. They still needed to take some bottom six type guys at some point.

Agreed about trading draft picks for rentals, the Doug Murray deal was probably the worst.

 

[element1286]

Also: it's easy to get freaked out about the state of the team, and I'm starting to turn on MJ, but not for his system. The system is good...but his player usage is NOT. He's doing the same thing as Bylsma seemed to, although Blysma's bigger issue was the system he never adjusted from, in that he overvalues grit/tenacity and undervalues skill. Grit guys that can cycle the puck and possess it, those you want. Grit guys that chase the puck and hit a lot (because they don't have the puck) you don't. He keeps putting Sill and Adams out there, but undervalues Beau Bennett and it's maddening. Bennett was a healthy scratch (which I wasn't a fan of, but whatever), then the next game (after reportedly working his ass off in practice) he's trotted out with Sutter and given 10 minutes of ice time. Playing with Sutter is expected because he was seen as the 2C in that game, which is sad based on his year, but you can't expect him to do much in regard to producing on offense with Sutter and only getting on the ice for 10 minutes.

Bennett has had a good year possession wise, despite inconsistent line mates and injury. Offense happens when you have the puck...not when you send out guys who are simply useless like Sill/Adams. I bring this up again because it looks like Bennett may be out again tonight. It's speculation but he stayed on after the morning skate to work more, which typically indicates a scratch.

Yep, running around hitting guys as they smoothly move the puck up the ice is in no way an effective way to be a hockey player, Adams and Sill are the definitions of empty jerseys.

Sutter the past two weeks is in the same boat.

 

[scoutyjones2]

You could say Bennett has been an empty jersey too...except he doesn't hit anybody! Probably break something if he did

 

[element1286]

Not saying Bennett was playing well, but if we are talking about degrees of sucking, Sutter is at the top of the list the past few weeks, IMO.

Anyway they won last night, playing ok, good enough to beat a terrible team.

 

[Burghfan]

Bennett has 3 goals and 5 assists. Sill 1 goal 1 assist and Adams 1 goal 4 assists. So Bennett has more points than the two of them combined.

There are times, however, when the rest of the team is going through the motions, MJ will put the fourth line out there and they start generating some chances. I never liked the way Bylsma went mainly with the top two lines and just occasionally put out the 3rd and 4th lines. Bylsma wore those guys down. Its a balance and I think MJ might be favoring the 4th line a little too much, but hopefully he'll work it out.