Newton signs

[cubzzzfanincali]

Wilson is a lot more similar to Young than you seem to realize. Yes Young scrambled a lot, and mostly that's what Wilson does too. According to Football Outsiders, Wilson averages 3 scrambles a game and about 2 designed runs per game. That's a lot less designed running than, say, Kaepernick and RG3 in his rookie season. The reason Wilson runs so much is that his offense line sucks. He takes off under pressure a lot sooner. Young also took off a lot, but because he was more mature in the pocket, he didn't take off as quickly.

Here's an article that discusses Wilson in great detail. You might find it interesting:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Film Room: Russell Wilson's Mobility

 

[wood20ks]

In the USFL and in Tampa...Young was most definitely a runner...very athletic, but he ran to not get killed most of the time.

Montana ran to get key 1st downs or if the pocket broke down...but both quickly bought into the short passing game that became the WC offense. Even then they would still break the pocket and get yards running...somewhat different from the read option QB of today. RW imo was the 1st QB to play in or win a SB where the DE has to account for him as a runner on nearly every play.

I grew up during the 70`s and if it was not the Bears,I actually didn`t watch much football other than MNF..........
But it seems to me that Fran Tarkenton may fit that decription........He did play in 3 SBs back then.

ps.............I don`t remember montana being this scrambling qb,but I didn`t watch a whole lotta Niner games either.

 

[richig07]

Wilson is a lot more similar to Young than you seem to realize. Yes Young scrambled a lot, and mostly that's what Wilson does too. According to Football Outsiders, Wilson averages 3 scrambles a game and about 2 designed runs per game. That's a lot less designed running than, say, Kaepernick and RG3 in his rookie season. The reason Wilson runs so much is that his offense line sucks. He takes off under pressure a lot sooner. Young also took off a lot, but because he was more mature in the pocket, he didn't take off as quickly.

Here's an article that discusses Wilson in great detail. You might find it interesting:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Film Room: Russell Wilson's Mobility

I remember trying to say this when we talked about "running QB's" earlier this off-season, and I was called a total fool for possibly thinking that there's a difference between "scrambling QB's" versus "running QB's".

Running QB's do not win. Historically, over and over they have not. Scrambling QB's… they can definitely win.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I grew up during the 70`s and if it was not the Bears,I actually didn`t watch much football other than MNF..........
But it seems to me that Fran Tarkenton may fit that decription........He did play in 3 SBs back then.

ps.............I don`t remember montana being this scrambling qb,but I didn`t watch a whole lotta Niner games either.

You did have to account for Fran, but if memory serves it was mostly as a scrambler off broken plays. Not really taking snaps and challenging the edge of the DEF...lol.

Montana...he wasn't, but he wasn't Troy Aikman either...had good wheels, and would make a play or two running to extend a play or get a 1st when needed.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I remember trying to say this when we talked about "running QB's" earlier this off-season, and I was called a total fool for possibly thinking that there's a difference between "scrambling QB's" versus "running QB's".

Running QB's do not win. Historically, over and over they have not. Scrambling QB's… they can definitely win.

hey can I still call you a total fool?

At some level, I think distinguishing QBs into "scrambling" and "running" is starting to hair split with respect to whether or not they CAN win. There's no logical reason why a "running" QB...if by what you mean is a QB who plays with a few plays a game pre-designed as runs...can't win. Steve Young scrambled a lot, but he also did have designed draws and rollouts called for him. So does Wilson. So obviously, in theory, simply being able to run doesn't hurt a team's chances.

I think the issue is when you have QBs who actually can't support the team enough on their own passing skill and they are having to "cover up" the passing weakness with run plays. Then, sure, you aren't going to win. Tim Tebow would be the textbook example of this. But I am not - AT ALL - convinced of the argument that a team that calls a lot of designed runs won't win the Super Bowl, and possibly pretty soon. I think if RG3 had avoided getting injured, and if he was on a better all-around team than Washington, he would have had a shot. I don't think Cam Newton...who is a good example of a guy who gets a few designed calls a game, is a somewhat flawed but pretty good passer...can be ruled out as a potential eventual Super Bowl winner. I just don't. I think his contract is terrible, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him eventually winning it all. He's too young for me to say otherwise yet. He could still improve yet, and make his contract look great.

OK that's enough. Man it is way easier just calling you a total fool. Way less to type.

 

[richig07]

hey can I still call you a total fool?

At some level, I think distinguishing QBs into "scrambling" and "running" is starting to hair split with respect to whether or not they CAN win. There's no logical reason why a "running" QB...if by what you mean is a QB who plays with a few plays a game pre-designed as runs...can't win. Steve Young scrambled a lot, but he also did have designed draws and rollouts called for him. So does Wilson. So obviously, in theory, simply being able to run doesn't hurt a team's chances.

I think the issue is when you have QBs who actually can't support the team enough on their own passing skill and they are having to "cover up" the passing weakness with run plays. Then, sure, you aren't going to win. Tim Tebow would be the textbook example of this. But I am not - AT ALL - convinced of the argument that a team that calls a lot of designed runs won't win the Super Bowl, and possibly pretty soon. I think if RG3 had avoided getting injured, and if he was on a better all-around team than Washington, he would have had a shot. I don't think Cam Newton...who is a good example of a guy who gets a few designed calls a game, is a somewhat flawed but pretty good passer...can be ruled out as a potential eventual Super Bowl winner. I just don't. I think his contract is terrible, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him eventually winning it all. He's too young for me to say otherwise yet. He could still improve yet, and make his contract look great.

OK that's enough. Man it is way easier just calling you a total fool. Way less to type.

Lol… Fair enough.

However, I believe that there is a big difference with the mentality of say… a Vick, Randall Cunningham or RGIII versus a Russell Wilson/Steve Young as well.

Even on designed pass plays where they do end up running, it's only because the play completely broke down and their last option was to use their athleticism. Versus a "running QB"… who will bail out of the pocket after his first progression is not open, looking to run. Which we saw Vick do countless times throughout his career.

Throughout NFL history, we have yet to see a QB like that win a Super Bowl. They have all been very good passers, who used their athleticism as a last resort to make things happen on when things breakdown. Wilson is a fantastic example.

A running quarterback is like a Corvette. It's fast, it's flashy, it looks great parked next to shitty cars, and it'll get you laid by a lot of young dumber brawds. However, at the end of the day, it's just not a fantastic car and it's going to break down if you try to do too much with it.

A running quarterback looks fantastic on highlight reels and has the ability to put together hall of fame performances against bad defenses. However, when the chips are down and it's playoff time. Your flash isn't getting you to a super bowl. You're eventually going to run into a top 5 defense, and when you do... you're going to look bad. See Vick, see Cunningham… see RGIII running into Seattle before he was hurt (Tore ACL at very end, I believe).

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I can agree with this ^.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Scrambling QBs are great. The problem with running QBs is they can't stay healthy. Their effective but can't stay on the field for a full season.