My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[msgkings322]

So you tried?

Clearly I'm more interested in LeBron. You need to move on though.

 

[thunderc]

Clearly I'm more interested in LeBron. You need to move on though.

I’m not the one writing weird threads.

 

[msgkings322]

I’m not the one writing weird threads.

You just post weird in existing ones

 

[trojanfan12]

There's no contest in longevity and effectiveness at advanced age. LeBron got his first title well younger than Jordan did also. But sure I can agree MJ had a good length career of being great too. Just well short of LeBron.

LeBron leads MJ in all the counting stats, by a lot. That's kind of my point. Who scores the most points in NBA history, that's a factor in the GOAT debate.

Lebrons rankings in all-time stats...

Points - 1
Minutes - 1
FGA - 1
FGM - 2
Def. Reb. - 10
Assists - 4
Steals - 8
FTM - 1
FTA - 4

In those categories, MJ is only ranked higher in steals.

 

[Mebert]

Obviously the only true way to know who is greatest is to look at who spends more time pretending to read.

 

[msgkings322]

Obviously the only true way to know who is greatest is to look at who spends more time pretending to read.

No, gotta compare Space Jam performances to really know

 

[Mecca]

Someone has to be that guy * gal *.

 

[Mecca]

Maybe not worth its own thread but the NBA thread is all over the place

Watched the Warriors win in Chicago (finally!)...the Bulls were creating that very night at halftime a Ring of Honor and putting all the Bulls greats (not just the MJ era) in, some highlights, some were there in person, MJ sent a prerecorded video message. Also they honored the 1995-6 team and guys like Kukoc were there and also of course the other team's coach was on the floor being honored (Kerr). Phil Jackson was there in person, looking sharp but old, did not stand up.

Anyhoo, putting aside that this GOAT debate is literally impossible to 'win', the arguing is the point of it, so here goes

It's the usual better career vs better peak like HOF debates have. MJ at peak level was more dominant over the sport than LeBron has ever been. But MJ can't touch LeBron's sustained excellence for so long.

Got reminded seeing the MJ highlights yet again, you can picture them....the big jump in the air and fist pump vs the Cavs, the 'I'm so sick' game with Pippen helping him like James Brown's hype man (you know the dude who keeps putting the cape on James), the switching hands in midair layup, that final 3, etc. There will never be a force concentrated in dominance like that ever again. Everyone else is too good now to compare, meaning no one star can be THAT far from another now.

And it's hard to imagine some future GOAT contender outlasting LeBron's sustained excellence. Like how could you improve that body and basketball brain in the future? It's sort of the max setting.

Anyhoo, I guess that's all LOL

Longevity vs Peak works better in the Montana vs Brady debate FOR ME.

The moment Brady won more rings was the moment I no longer had a leg to stand on when insisting Montana was better.

That hasn’t, and won’t, happen here.

So, I remain blissfully dug in.

Forever Jordan.

 

[msgkings322]

Longevity vs Peak works better in the Montana vs Brady debate FOR ME.

The moment Brady won more rings was the moment I no longer had a leg to stand on when insisting Montana was better.

That hasn’t, and won’t, happen here.

So, I remain blissfully dug in.

Like I said, no way to prove any of it really, the fun is in the arguing and what it reveals about how you personally rate these things.

I've heard reasonable arguments that Dan Marino was actually GOAT and he never won a ring.

 

[Mecca]

 

[Mecca]

Like I said, no way to prove any of it really, the fun is in the arguing and what it reveals about how you personally rate these things.

I've heard reasonable arguments that Dan Marino was actually GOAT and he never won a ring.

Is Marino Barkley, Ewing or Malone?

…minus the ped-o-philia of course

 

[msgkings322]

Is Marino Barkley, Ewing or Malone?

…minus the ped-o-philia of course

Some of the people who know these things say in terms of talent he's the best ever so none of those. He was playing modern day QB style way before it got here. And if I recall he never had HOF weapons to throw too, right? Not really an expert here.

 

[Mecca]

Some of the people who know these things say in terms of talent he's the best ever so none of those. He was playing modern day QB style way before it got here. And if I recall he never had HOF weapons to throw too, right? Not really an expert here.

I was actually a football fan back then.

He was great and like Malone, would have been a Champ if not for my football Jordan, Joe Montana.

 

[msgkings322]

I was actually a football fan back then.

He was great and like Malone, would have been a Champ if not for my football Jordan, Joe Montana.

My wife was in the marching band on the field for the halftime show that Super Bowl

 

[fightinfunbags]

My wife was in the marching band on the field for the halftime show that Super Bowl

Did she play your flute?

 

[msgkings322]

Did she play your flute?

Back then? She was 14 so, not yet.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Back then? She was 14 so, not yet.

Well, now I feel shame

 

[trojanfan12]

 

[Shanemansj13]

Never losing a game 7 while going 6-0 in the finals ends most arguments.

Not if you look at the competition and the fact Lebron carried his team to the Finals. Maybe he should have lost early like MJ did vs the C’s year in and year out. If he only goes to 4 championships and wins them all, is that making a difference? I think it actually diminishes his career vastly. What LBJ did to carry some of those Cavs teams to Finals not one person on the planet could have done, even MJ. There is a reason, MJ only made the Finals with Pip and when he was healthy.

The debate is actually very close. Closer than some realize.

There is always luck involved too. One perfect example. Lebron wins a title with Cleveland. GS strengthens the already superteam with KD. If this never happens, the Cavs very well could win another title. This was a chain reaction bc then the following year Kyrie forces his way out. That team won two games against the KD-Warriors and the future was bright.

The point is not everything is black and white. MJ won his titles when the Pistons bad boys aged. The Lakers-Magic and Kareem fell apart and aged. There was less talent in the league. The only team MJ had to worry about was the Jazz and adding Rodman was a perfect fit vs the Mailman. Everything went as planned. One thing goes wrong and MJ could have 3 titles-maybe less

 

[msgkings322]

Not if you look at the competition and the fact Lebron carried his team to the Finals. Maybe he should have lost early like MJ did vs the C’s year in and year out. If he only goes to 4 championships and wins them all, is that making a difference? I think it actually diminishes his career vastly. What LBJ did to carry some of those Cavs teams to Finals not one person on the planet could have done, even MJ. There is a reason, MJ only made the Finals with Pip and when he was healthy.

The debate is actually very close. Closer than some realize.

There is always luck involved too. One perfect example. Lebron wins a title with Cleveland. GS strengthens the already superteam with KD. If this never happens, the Cavs very well could win another title. This was a chain reaction bc then the following year Kyrie forces his way out. That team won two games against the KD-Warriors and the future was bright.

The point is not everything is black and white. MJ won his titles when the Pistons bad boys aged. The Lakers-Magic and Kareem fell apart and aged. There was less talent in the league. The only team MJ had to worry about was the Jazz and adding Rodman was a perfect fit vs the Mailman. Everything went as planned. One thing goes wrong and MJ could have 3 titles-maybe less

Luck is a very underappreciated part of all sports narratives