Maybe I'm beating my head against a wall.....but isn't this obvious, at long last???

[Stymietee]

Sonny was hurt and couldn't play in SB VII. He beat the Dolphins the following year (his Super Bowl.) Torn achilles. Had he been able to play I believe the Redskins win Super Bowl VII.

That's right....thanks for the memory jog!!

 

[SoCalWizFan]

dad, i think you know this. My beef is with Snyder and no one else. When I was young and the Redskins were bad we brought Lombardi here but of course he died after one year but he did change the culture.

Two years later EBW brought George Allen here and started one of the great eras in Redskin history. I am a fan of the Allen family and I know Bruce loves the Redskins. All that said I don't feel Snyder hires people and puts them in position to succeed and if he does hire someone that might be competent he submarines them after a couple of years.

I would be happy if Allen was a success as GM and Gruden as HC and Griffin as QB.

Shanahan made mistakes, Gibbs made mistakes. The only one I would say didn't was Marty but he was only here one year before Snyder couldn't stand it.

If we could only make Bobby Bethard 45 again.

Agree for the most part. However - remember that Bethard drafted some real clunkers for the Redskins & he is the guy who drafted Ryan Leaf for the Chargers (even after Leaf failed various psychiatric tests) . Like I said before - almost all GMs make good & bad moves.

 

[skinsdad62]

i think snyder gets beat up for things that happened early in his ownership period

i believe lately he has stayed away from day to day operations

when i see evidence that he hasnt the i will stand corrected

i feel really good about this team moving forward

 

[Sportster 72]

That was the point we were making in the other thread. You aren't going to see evidence. He guards against it. If you are waiting for him to admit it is never going to happen. Why do you think Vinny stayed so long, he was Dan's fall guy.

I posted in a thread a few days ago that at least Jerry Jones and Al Davis had gonchos to say they were doing what they are. Snyder tries to make everyone think that isn't the case. It is his business and he has the right to run it however he wants. As a fan we have the right to root for him or not.

JKC was eccentric but he hired good football people and let them run the day to day football part of the business.

 

[skinsdad62]

That was the point we were making in the other thread. You aren't going to see evidence. He guards against it. If you are waiting for him to admit it is never going to happen. Why do you think Vinny stayed so long, he was Dan's fall guy.

I posted in a thread a few days ago that at least Jerry Jones and Al Davis had gonchos to say they were doing what they are. Snyder tries to make everyone think that isn't the case. It is his business and he has the right to run it however he wants. As a fan we have the right to root for him or not.

JKC was eccentric but he hired good football people and let them run the day to day football part of the business.

ok what evidence ? show me where he stepped in and made a choice , forced an issue , in the last few years

and again the hole Rg3 thing . so garcon was mad but the other guy wasnt (moss)

show me some evidence that he MADE shanahan play Rg3 ? or forced him to draft him ?

show me he forced gruden to play Rg3 or anyone ?

put a name to anything . i dont want to hear about cooley's speculation get me a tweet , something solid

if you show me something like that i am all ears

i dont want to hear about opinions i want facts

when i found facts about Rg3 and garcon i put it up there

anonymous sources arent facts or credible

 

[Sportster 72]

ok what evidence ? show me where he stepped in and made a choice , forced an issue , in the last few years

and again the hole Rg3 thing . so garcon was mad but the other guy wasnt (moss)

show me some evidence that he MADE shanahan play Rg3 ? or forced him to draft him ?

show me he forced gruden to play Rg3 or anyone ?

put a name to anything . i dont want to hear about cooley's speculation get me a tweet , something solid

if you show me something like that i am all ears

i dont want to hear about opinions i want facts

when i found facts about Rg3 and garcon i put it up there

anonymous sources arent facts or credible

dad, I am all for you believing in whatever you want to believe. That is everyone's right.

I told you there WILL NOT be any evidence because Snyder doesn't want people to do what he does. I just wrote a thread about this that you replied to.

You wrote a post that you found evidence concerning Garcon and some others and gave yourself credit for unearthing this information. We all replied (with a good natured laugh) that we told you about this a year or more ago and you didn't unearth anything.

The evidence, last in the NFL East for how many years in a row? There's your evidence but tha's all you are going to get because Snyder does have the beans in his pants to stand up for what he does.

I gave you other evidence, my brother worked for the guy. Hell Cooley gave my nephew pink gloves for breast cancer awareness years ago when they first started that program. You seem to think that doesn't matter either. You don't want evidence. You just want to give yourself credit for being right about something that j_y and Sty and I told you has been going of ro a long time.

The beauty of being a fan, you can believe whatever you want to believe. Enjoy, believe what you want. Makes no difference to me but don't come on here and tell us you figured this all out and you are letting us know when we told you a year or more ago. And actually I have had this same stance on Snyder for many years. If you don't agree, I am okay with that.

 

[Sportster 72]

ok what evidence ? show me where he stepped in and made a choice , forced an issue , in the last few years

and again the hole Rg3 thing . so garcon was mad but the other guy wasnt (moss)

show me some evidence that he MADE shanahan play Rg3 ? or forced him to draft him ?

show me he forced gruden to play Rg3 or anyone ?

put a name to anything . i dont want to hear about cooley's speculation get me a tweet , something solid

if you show me something like that i am all ears

i dont want to hear about opinions i want facts

when i found facts about Rg3 and garcon i put it up there

anonymous sources arent facts or credible

Just to make it clear, my brother working for the organization is a fact, not an opinion.

 

[j_y19]

ok what evidence ? show me where he stepped in and made a choice , forced an issue , in the last few years

and again the hole Rg3 thing . so garcon was mad but the other guy wasnt (moss)

show me some evidence that he MADE shanahan play Rg3 ? or forced him to draft him ?

show me he forced gruden to play Rg3 or anyone ?

put a name to anything . i dont want to hear about cooley's speculation get me a tweet , something solid

if you show me something like that i am all ears

i dont want to hear about opinions i want facts

when i found facts about Rg3 and garcon i put it up there

anonymous sources arent facts or credible

Here's the issue I have with your position. Your sources you take as gospel, or facts as you like to say. Any other sources others offer up are "opinions" or anonymous.

So here is my question to you. Can you show me facts that Danny didn't interfere with the decision to start RG3 against Minn?
That's a ridiculous proposition, isn't it? Yet that's what you demand of those that have heard from their trusted sources that he was involved. But if you look at his overall record of meddling, it would seem to me that it is much more likely he did pressure Gruden than he didn't.

 

[skinsdad62]

Here's the issue I have with your position. Your sources you take as gospel, or facts as you like to say. Any other sources others offer up are "opinions" or anonymous.

So here is my question to you. Can you show me facts that Danny didn't interfere with the decision to start RG3 against Minn?
That's a ridiculous proposition, isn't it? Yet that's what you demand of those that have heard from their trusted sources that he was involved. But if you look at his overall record of meddling, it would seem to me that it is much more likely he did pressure Gruden than he didn't.

my sources typically put up a name . i am sorry but a commentator on a radio station giving an opinion isnt fact . anonymous sources arent credible . neither is my second cousins friend who works in the redskins mail room

you guys pointed out a rift between Rg3 and his teammates. you sighted him throwing moss and garcon under the bus after the eagles game . in the subsequent days all parties involved , Rg3 garcon , and moss said they talked it out and "all was good "

i post a story saying well garcon isnt over it and moss is yet garcon is the whole team and everyone else doesnt matter

could it be that the team is more mad at garcon then rg3 ? it certainly is possible could it be Rg3 is simply an asshole . that too is certainly possible

snyder is a fan . he is more likely to be fickle then anything else . there certainly is no harm in admitting that drafting Rg3 is a mistake and moving on

snyder is also a business man and a greedy one at that . the fans are restless and want a consistent winner so i doubt he will let his ego stand in the way but others have another view

i dont get where some of you believe that being negative makes you smarter . so you find out that a rumor is substantiated and all of a sudden i get "we told you so's " yet there are instances where a rumor is debunked and there is silence

my other thing is why bother with the team if you have predetermined that snyder is and will forever doom the franchise ? why invest my emotional capitol if you are doomed to start with ?

nothing will ever change unless you give people a chance even if their past is checkered

this team is closer to avg then it is to being horrible . a draft or 2 more and some smart free agent signings and we could have something

 

[skinsdad62]

oh i didnt offer any evidence supporting my view that snyder isnt involved in day to day operations

1st , he allowed shanny to bench his dinner partner , adviser, limo renter

2nd he let shanny cut his boy AH who gashed them for millions i cant see an egomaniac letting one of his "finds" being let go

3rd he allowed shanny to dump his star qb DMAC costing more money and embarrassment

4th he let allen hire gruden , not a more glamorous 'name" coach

5th allen ran his draft with a lot of guys picked who werent on our radar

6th he let shanny make the trade for dmac in the 1st place . that was shanny's first real big move with his contract that says he had complete say of all football operations

 

[Sportster 72]

Facts:

107 -142

7 of last 11 years 6 wins or less.

 

[j_y19]

oh i didnt offer any evidence supporting my view that snyder isnt involved in day to day operations

1st , he allowed shanny to bench his dinner partner , adviser, limo renter

2nd he let shanny cut his boy AH who gashed them for millions i cant see an egomaniac letting one of his "finds" being let go

3rd he allowed shanny to dump his star qb DMAC costing more money and embarrassment

4th he let allen hire gruden , not a more glamorous 'name" coach

5th allen ran his draft with a lot of guys picked who werent on our radar

6th he let shanny make the trade for dmac in the 1st place . that was shanny's first real big move with his contract that says he had complete say of all football operations

My counter:

1st, he ordered shanahan to sit RG3 to protect him for the future since our OL was so terrible.

2nd He ordered shanahan to cut fat al after fat al dissed Danny even tho Dan had committed over $100M to him

3rd He demanded that Shanahan dump DMAC after DMAC completely embarrassed Dan with such piss poor play (I can't help but laugh out loud when I write this one)

4th he demanded that Gruden be hired after John Gruden told him that he would keep an eye on his brother and keep Dan aware of what was really happening.

5th Dan picked the entire draft since none of those picked weren't on our radar (or anyone else's for that matter)

6 he made the trade for DMAC. That had to be the case because anyone with any football IQ could see DMAC was shot. He called Lurie up and Lurie couldn't believe his luck.

Show me any facts that dispute anything I've offered.

 

[skinsdad62]

My counter:

1st, he ordered shanahan to sit RG3 to protect him for the future since our OL was so terrible.

2nd He ordered shanahan to cut fat al after fat al dissed Danny even tho Dan had committed over $100M to him

3rd He demanded that Shanahan dump DMAC after DMAC completely embarrassed Dan with such piss poor play (I can't help but laugh out loud when I write this one)

4th he demanded that Gruden be hired after John Gruden told him that he would keep an eye on his brother and keep Dan aware of what was really happening.

5th Dan picked the entire draft since none of those picked weren't on our radar (or anyone else's for that matter)



6 he made the trade for DMAC. That had to be the case because anyone with any football IQ could see DMAC was shot. He called Lurie up and Lurie couldn't believe his luck.

Show me any facts that dispute anything I've offered.

really ? that is what you believe

come on it makes more sense that he allowed those decisions to be made by his "football people "

 

[j_y19]

really ? that is what you believe

come on it makes more sense that he allowed those decisions to be made by his "football people "

In a few instances, yes, I believe it. But most i was being factitious. The point was that you are asking us to offer "facts" as you call them for our beliefs when there never will be. So I asked you to do the same. Offer facts that my statements are false. You can't. But that does't mean they are true. Just like Watergate. Just because the WaPo didn't offer a name, doesn't mean Watergate didn't happen.

 

[skinsdad62]

In a few instances, yes, I believe it. But most i was being factitious. The point was that you are asking us to offer "facts" as you call them for our beliefs when there never will be. So I asked you to do the same. Offer facts that my statements are false. You can't. But that does't mean they are true. Just like Watergate. Just because the WaPo didn't offer a name, doesn't mean Watergate didn't happen.

at first they didnt get a name , but soon they got several and they got tapes . they got hard evidence

now how would you like someone making accusations about you with only here say, anonymous sources , scuttle butt , opinions ?

my guess you or no one on this board would go for that yet you would accept that when you are going after someone else ?

to me that isnt treating people as you would have them treat you so i try not to practice that ( i do fail a lot )

its ok to have an opinion the case can be strongly made that the FO has been incompetent (as well as the owner ) without having to use questionable sources , here say , opinion .

sure some will end up being right . but more often then not they arent

so my point is if you are of the opinion that snyder is interfering that is fine , but make sure it is known as an opinion and not espoused as fact .and when it does come out he has interfered with facts then you will always be right

so again the visual evidence i have seen leads me to believe he has backed away some but that doesnt mean behind the scenes he isnt mini hitler . but i wont accuse him of it until more information comes out

 

[j_y19]

at first they didnt get a name , but soon they got several and they got tapes . they got hard evidence

now how would you like someone making accusations about you with only here say, anonymous sources , scuttle butt , opinions ?

my guess you or no one on this board would go for that yet you would accept that when you are going after someone else ?

to me that isnt treating people as you would have them treat you so i try not to practice that ( i do fail a lot )

its ok to have an opinion the case can be strongly made that the FO has been incompetent (as well as the owner ) without having to use questionable sources , here say , opinion .

sure some will end up being right . but more often then not they arent

so my point is if you are of the opinion that snyder is interfering that is fine , but make sure it is known as an opinion and not espoused as fact .and when it does come out he has interfered with facts then you will always be right

so again the visual evidence i have seen leads me to believe he has backed away some but that doesnt mean behind the scenes he isnt mini hitler . but i wont accuse him of it until more information comes out

That's fair. I try to make it a habit to always tell folks that we all just post opinions. Hell, I'm wrong on this board way more than I'm right. Remember, I was the one who predicted 9-6 this year. Who knows I may still be right

 

[sublime4eva]

Allen didn't want to give up a 5th round pick for Sproles. Remember that guys. There were actually people on here that agreed with the Skins for not giving up there 5th for Sproles.

And why would we even need sproles? We have plenty of RB's, we have much more important needs then him.