Matt Forte no shows receiving Brian Piccolo Award

[ATL96Steeler]

Manniern pass happy era of the NFL...still gotta have some balance to win it all.

Peyton did not win with Edge. He won with Addai and Rhodes. Who also busted after leaving Manning. Edgerin James was clearly a product of playing with Peyton. He was utterly useless in Arizona, I believe he averaged 3.3 YPC without Manning or something. Rhodes busted in Oakland, Addai dropped off the face of the earth without Peyton.

This all goes to my point, which is that YES… you do need a running game. However, I think it's been proven that in a properly functioning offense, the RB you plug in is the least important factor in determining it's efficiency. RB's are interchangeable pieces. They were with the NO team you're speaking of as well.

Is a HOF back like AP or Lynch nice to have? Sure. But they're very rare, and even when they exist. It's simply not worth ponying up the cash to land/keep them. As you can get the production you need to compete for a SB by going out and finding two or three cheap RB's to platoon your backfield.[/QUOTE]

Good pick up on Edge...it was Addai/Rhodes...Edge was finished when he went to AZ though so I won't give PM too much credit there.

We're on the same page...I'm not sure you can just plug in any RB unless you're the Shanny Broncos, ATL has struggled to replace Turner the Burner is a good example...even PIT with Dwyer and Redman, they were decent RBs but not difference makers...Bell makes a huge difference to that OFC...but I agree you don't need AP to win it all.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

You don't need AP to win it all but he sure helps his team in many ways. We have Cutler, and a strong run game is more important for us then a team led by Payton or Brady. While I get and agree to a extent with Rich, I still feel he is undervaluing the position. What would help our Def/team more. A. top D player or B. a top RB. For me a top RB would help the team more. But hey we all got our own thoughts and reasoning's for the things we believe.

 

[richig07]

Peyton did not win with Edge. He won with Addai and Rhodes. Who also busted after leaving Manning. Edgerin James was clearly a product of playing with Peyton. He was utterly useless in Arizona, I believe he averaged 3.3 YPC without Manning or something. Rhodes busted in Oakland, Addai dropped off the face of the earth without Peyton.

This all goes to my point, which is that YES… you do need a running game. However, I think it's been proven that in a properly functioning offense, the RB you plug in is the least important factor in determining it's efficiency. RB's are interchangeable pieces. They were with the NO team you're speaking of as well.

Is a HOF back like AP or Lynch nice to have? Sure. But they're very rare, and even when they exist. It's simply not worth ponying up the cash to land/keep them. As you can get the production you need to compete for a SB by going out and finding two or three cheap RB's to platoon your backfield.

Good pick up on Edge...it was Addai/Rhodes...Edge was finished when he went to AZ though so I won't give PM too much credit there.

We're on the same page...I'm not sure you can just plug in any RB unless you're the Shanny Broncos, ATL has struggled to replace Turner the Burner is a good example...even PIT with Dwyer and Redman, they were decent RBs but not difference makers...Bell makes a huge difference to that OFC...but I agree you don't need AP to win it all.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, we are on the same page. I do agree Bell makes a difference in PIT, and that's evident if you watch their playoff game with BAL last year where he had to sit out.

I just don't know if it's worth it to pay top RB's the money they want nowadays. Especially given RB's short life span. I think in a perfect world, you'd ideally want to find a young talented RB with good value in the draft. And hang onto him for a few years until he's due for a payday, then send him on his way. Then repeat said process, and bring in vets that you can get on the cheap.

For instance, I think a back like Pierre Thomas would be extremely valuable in today's market. Obviously he just retired, and he'd have to be younger for this example to apply... but it's just an example. Throughout his career he was proven as a durable and reliable veteran back, who saw success in a high functioning New Orleans offense. He's a guy who can do everything well. He can do anything you ask of him… block, pass catch, run, run in short yardage situations, etc… He's also very overlooked, because he's physically underwhelming. Which makes him extremely affordable.

I think if you are able to bring in a guy like that, and pair him with a younger back you found in the 3rd or 4th round who may be capable of rotating possessions and effectively shouldering a 10-12 carry workload per game (AKA roughly 4 YPC) on 1st/2nd down. If you can succeed at doing this, you've saved yourself a boat load of cash and I believe you have all that is necessary to win in today's NFL at the RB position. This frees you up to spend more building up front.

I believe with skill positions, more often than not. It's about finding the right fit for your system. I don't believe a winning formula is simply loading up on big name, mega athlete skill position guys. If it was that simple, then you'd see everyone going out of their way to do it. If you look at the previous SB winners, I think that holds up. NE, SEA, BAL, NYG, GB. None of these teams were loaded with big name guys offensively. Some had one dominant threat, like Gronk in NE. But outside of that… it was mostly guys who were good in their role in that system offensively, and those teams also all happened to play very strong defense.

All of this is obviously provided that you have the right guy at QB, but I don't think many would disagree that you need a QB to win in today's game. lol

Forgive me for rambling on, but I find this topic rather intriguing. Especially following yet another free agency where teams in "win now" mode, felt their best plan of attack was to go out and grab every big name skill position player they could possibly get their hands on. AKA… Indianapolis. I hate going out and getting a 30+ year old RB and WR with injury history's and TONS of mileage. How often does this workout? Not often. The Bears just did this for two off-seasons straight under Emery and Trestman. Look where it landed them. In a HEAP of financial trouble and possibly setback as a franchise for years.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

Couldn't be farther on the other side of the spectrum. I do not even feel it has top 15 value amongst the 22 positions on each side. The draft in recent years supports this. To suggest that it is more important than offensive and defensive line to me is asinine.

I believe if you have a top QB and a solid O-line, you could pull guys off of the street and compete to win a SB. Then dump them the next year if need be, and continue making deep playoff runs.

I've been watching New England, New Orleans and Peyton Manning's offenses do this for years. I also watched GB do this in 2010 and win a SB.

It's the Marshawn Lynch's, Adrian Peterson's, etc… that are the dying breed. Not the other way around. You no longer run the ball the majority of the time to set up the pass in this league. If you have a QB who can throw the ball, and a line that can block. It truly just does not matter who you plug in at RB. You need a competent runner, and a competent pass blocker. In the right system, a back who can do both well will be a star. In the wrong one, he will become a cast-off.

Belichick knows the score… "Oh you have a fumbling problem?"… "Oh, you want a raise?"… "Another body please! All I need… another body! I don't care who it is!". Why do you think Blount looks like a pro bowler every time he goes there?

Wait Rich is pissed about an athlete again? No way.

 

[richig07]

Wait Rich is pissed about an athlete again? No way.

I'm so far from caring about this Forte thing. lol. I like Forte. What are you talking about? Still can't let go of the BM thing, I see.

We're talking football in this thread Pistol. I know you're not big on it, but feel free to hop in bud.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I believe with skill positions, more often than not. It's about finding the right fit for your system. I don't believe a winning formula is simply loading up on big name, mega athlete skill position guys. If it was that simple, then you'd see everyone going out of their way to do it. If you look at the previous SB winners, I think that holds up. NE, SEA, BAL, NYG, GB. None of these teams were loaded with big name guys offensively. Some had one dominant threat, like Gronk in NE. But outside of that… it was mostly guys who were good in their role in that system offensively, and those teams also all happened to play very strong defense.




Well stated and true.

The players have remained the same...what has changed are the rules...eliminating hits above the shoulder, defenseless WR, etc. has opened up the middle of the field to all but the meek.

What's worst is this has almost made the FB extinct which I personally don't like.

RB future...as you pointed out...you really can't afford to pay a RB premium dollar anymore which is why DAL let Murray walk...yes, you will have the exceptions like a Murray who will get paid well the next couple of yrs but I think we both know he's not likely to play out that contract in Philly.

Draft a guy...get your 4 to 5 yrs of service and move on to the next one...maybe 3 out of 10 get a 2nd NFL contract with the team that drafted them.

That said...if you have that guy that makes a DEF respect playaction on 3 and 2...he makes the QB's job soooo much easier...I was that with Turner and the Falcons a lot, and I've seen them post Turner and 3 and 2 became a shotgun formation...Ryan struggled more on 3rd down because teams did not have to respect the run.

 

[podsox]

just watched the forte interview with david Kaplan. he is an idiot

 

[averagejoe]

I'm willing to give Forte a pass on this. While I agree that it was NOT a classy move to skip the award, Forte has done everything the Bears have asked him to do ever since day 1. He's run behind some poor lines and at least 3 different coordinators. Yet despite his critics, he's averaged the 4th best yards-per-game (rush + pass) among his RB peers for the last 4 years. Fourth best!

 

[podsox]

sorry any guy that says he could only get a 7 am flight to Chicago is lying. his excuse was that he didn't want to wake his daughter up. he then went on to say that he didn't and couldn't get the owners number. he was in Chicago the next day for a paid appearance for one of his sponsors. just say your screw up and should have went. simple ass that. giving a weak ass excuses makes u look like a jackass