Mariners/Braves Difference

[NWinAZ]

This is why I laugh at all the people that take joy in a teams so called success which is one semi-competitive season in over 10 years.

Jack has one good season vs 4 or 5 bad ones and gets an extension.

Frank Wren has 3 2nd place finishes and 1 1st place finishes in 7 years and is fired.

This is why I will never consider us a real MLB franchise.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

This is why I laugh at all the people that take joy in a teams so called success which is one semi-competitive season in over 10 years.

Jack has one good season vs 4 or 5 bad ones and gets an extension.

Frank Wren has 3 2nd place finishes and 1 1st place finishes in 7 years and is fired.

This is why I will never consider us a real MLB franchise.

Mariners have been perennial losers and everyone in MLB knows that... Problem is the ownership doesn't care about that image one bit... They've had YEARS to rebuild something and it's fallen flat over and over.... And when a prospect looks legit we trade him for more prospects because we don't want to pay our players just keep the cheap prospects... The cycle continues... That's been Mariners baseball... At least they made the season somewhat interesting this year though with great pitching... But that can only hold up so long when NO ONE CAN HIT THE FUCKING BASEBALL!!!

 

[NWinAZ]

Can't argue any of that. 37 years waiting for a change and squat has happened.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Really kind of puts things into perspective doesnt it.
Medicore baseball is not only accepted, its expected to be celebrated. The reality is the Mariners are not going to have a better a chance at a playoff spot then they had this year. The second wildcard took 92/93 wins the previous years. This year it likely will be less then 90 and A's and Royals are limping and giving the M's every chance to catch them. However they are deciding to do things in September that they have done the last 13 years.
Looking ahead at the division next year its only going to get stronger. The A's and Angels will still be tough, the Rangers will get healthy and the Astros are young and not that far away. Also teams like the Yankees and Red Sox who had down years will spend money to get better. It set up perfectly for the M's to sneak into the playoffs due to others deficiencies but they are doing nothing with that chance.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Really kind of puts things into perspective doesnt it.
Medicore baseball is not only accepted, its expected to be celebrated. The reality is the Mariners are not going to have a better a chance at a playoff spot then they had this year. The second wildcard took 92/93 wins the previous years. This year it likely will be less then 90 and A's and Royals are limping and giving the M's every chance to catch them. However they are deciding to do things in September that they have done the last 13 years.
Looking ahead at the division next year its only going to get stronger. The A's and Angels will still be tough, the Rangers will get healthy and the Astros are young and not that far away. Also teams like the Yankees and Red Sox who had down years will spend money to get better. It set up perfectly for the M's to sneak into the playoffs due to others deficiencies but they are doing nothing with that chance.

True.. You also can't build a winner spending what we did on Cano and locking down Felix and then getting cheap in every other aspect... I think Cano is a fantastic player but that's one guy... Mariners are known for doing that and Cano just basically replaced Ichiro as our big time $ player in our line-up ... I understand some moves haven't panned out like management thought, but we've made some serious bone-headed moves building this offense... And again I have no faith the Mariners will actually put out the money if some of our prospects pan out... Nothing speaks like the past... COUGH COUGH Tino Martinez....

 

[NWinAZ]

Well said the both of you. This is why I get so damn frustrated and pissed off. You are suppose to celebrate greatness not mediocrity. For me people that do that just feed the machine. Expect more. Demand more.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Missing the playoffs for now the 14th year in a row, I cant accept missing the playoffs as a successful season. I get expectations weren't high in March but they are allowed to be changed through the season. Like I said earlier the path was there this year and Cano and Felix are at the age where something needs to be done now.

 

[NWinAZ]

Yup.

 

[wazzu31]

True.. You also can't build a winner spending what we did on Cano and locking down Felix and then getting cheap in every other aspect... I think Cano is a fantastic player but that's one guy... Mariners are known for doing that and Cano just basically replaced Ichiro as our big time $ player in our line-up ... I understand some moves haven't panned out like management thought, but we've made some serious bone-headed moves building this offense... And again I have no faith the Mariners will actually put out the money if some of our prospects pan out... Nothing speaks like the past... COUGH COUGH Tino Martinez....

To be fair, that was suppose to be the steal of steals with deals getting two top guys in Davis and Hitchcock back, but that didn't pan out. Even looking back on that I can't get to mad about that, same as them not coming close to matching Texas' offer for ARod. The paying moniker I think would apply to Randy as Chuck made it public their contract concerns with his back.

The primary problem is obviously the front office, but it is getting in a competent GM which they have not had since Woody. I get peoples love for Gillick but he destroyed the farm system by not giving a shit and allowing the big club to get old with no plan to replenish the farm.

Bavasi was just in way over his head as he got a lot more credit than he deserved. I can't fault him to much because he did exactly what he was suppose to do, he came in and tried to do exactly what they wanted which was another Pat Gillick in someone who just cares about the Mariners, not the whole organization. His Jones deal was the perfect example of someone who was over his head as he should never have put Tillman in that deal.

Jack is just a glorified scout. Until Cano and this deadline, everyone of his deals are for the "future". Nearly all of his interviews he is just sounding like the head of scouting or player development. He locked the franchise in huge deals with 2 guys, has made a few head scratchers with picks, hasn't developed any franchise guys and obviously his deals and non deals (except this deadline) are fucking moronic and stink of man who thinks he is smarter than he is or trying to be ahead of the curve.

They need a leaders in the front office or as the GM, one who can keep and eye on all and can actually hire people who are good at their jobs when he needs to delegate. Doesn't matter if it is disgruntled former employees, but when he doesn't have one good thing said about him from a person he appointed to delegate any aspect of the organization it is not a sign of a good leader.

 

[Banned 10x]

Mariners have been perennial losers and everyone in MLB knows that... Problem is the ownership doesn't care about that image one bit... They've had YEARS to rebuild something and it's fallen flat over and over.... And when a prospect looks legit we trade him for more prospects because we don't want to pay our players just keep the cheap prospects... The cycle continues... That's been Mariners baseball... At least they made the season somewhat interesting this year though with great pitching... But that can only hold up so long when NO ONE CAN HIT THE FUCKING BASEBALL!!!

man, I have to get this shit off my chest

The thought that this franchise trades prospects because we don't want to pay players is ridiculous, imo. Which prospect have they let go because they got paid more.? A-Rod doesn't count, nobody was going to pay him what Texas gave him.

I remember bringing in the the NL best player in Adrian Beltre and also brought in a bonafied HR hitter in Sexson. I never read or heard one person saying this wasn't a great move, in fact, I heard the opposite. It didn't work out

All I heard is Eric Bedard is a stud left hander and was worth what ever we gave up for him. Worst trade in Mariner history if you ask me, but at the time it was a great trade because prospects are, well prospects. Bedard was going to be #1, a #1 left hander. When we traded for him he was 13-5 3.16 ERA with 221 SO in 2007 and averaging 10 SO's per game, a bonified #1... of course you give up prospects for somebody like this. It didn't' work out, to say the least....

I don't have much to say about Figgins, it didn't work out but at the time everybody loved the move.

One of the biggest trades was Cliff Lee for Smoak. There was not one person who didn't think this was a good move from what I read. It didn't work out.

Now, I'm not a fan of Jack Z, I think he should stick with building a minor league system and bring somebody else in to run the MLB team, but there are times I look at this team and think what bad luck they've had.

Anyway, I might be wrong about all of this, this is my just my thoughts from the cheap seats....

 

[SeattleCoug]

One of the biggest trades was Cliff Lee for Smoak. There was not one person who didn't think this was a good move from what I read. It didn't work out.

Jack Z deserves a lot of heat for some of his moves but I actually do give him a break on this one more then other people. Lee was obviously a free agent at the end of year and the M's were awful that year. The M's were obviously in a must trade situation with him becoming a free agent so they didnt have a lot of leverage. Granted the whole Josh Leuke part of the story made Z look bad but in terms of getting a decent return, not sure there was much more he could get. I didnt know a whole lot about Smoak at the time but usually prospects are prospects. The only other package I remembered hearing about with the Yankees and Montero which well, we know how that one ends

 

[NWinAZ]

To be fair, that was suppose to be the steal of steals with deals getting two top guys in Davis and Hitchcock back, but that didn't pan out. Even looking back on that I can't get to mad about that, same as them not coming close to matching Texas' offer for ARod. The paying moniker I think would apply to Randy as Chuck made it public their contract concerns with his back.

Actually we wanted some guy named Pettitte and they turned it down and we settled for Hitchcock. Typical Mariners. We also had a deal for some young starter named Mariano Rivera but it was nixed at the last second.

 

[wazzu31]

Actually we wanted some guy named Pettitte and they turned it down and we settled for Hitchcock. Typical Mariners. We also had a deal for some young starter named Mariano Rivera but it was nixed at the last second.

Yes, I agree but from my recollection it's not like Pettite and Hitchcock were that far apart were they? And the primary guy in return was Davis. Not saying it was a good trade but I can't fault them for that since they did out and get some young guys. IMO the Kevin Mitchell trade was the worst during that time.

 

[wazzu31]

Jack Z deserves a lot of heat for some of his moves but I actually do give him a break on this one more then other people. Lee was obviously a free agent at the end of year and the M's were awful that year. The M's were obviously in a must trade situation with him becoming a free agent so they didnt have a lot of leverage. Granted the whole Josh Leuke part of the story made Z look bad but in terms of getting a decent return, not sure there was much more he could get. I didnt know a whole lot about Smoak at the time but usually prospects are prospects. The only other package I remembered hearing about with the Yankees and Montero which well, we know how that one ends

In retrospect obviously it is a bad trade because Jack chose the prospect who had sucked donkey balls in his stint in the big leagues over Davis who they offered and actually had brief success.

But at the time I was pissed that we got completely fleeced in the deal because not only did they give up Lee but gave up Lowe. You can't give up an all star and a guy who was pitching at an all star level for basically one highly touted prospect. Just as in the Doug Fister deal where Fister was pitching at an all level and I can't remember the relievers name that was pitching at an all star level as well for no top prospects. It is suppose to be the contending team gives up 1 or 2 top prospects for the out of it teams 1 all star, not two guys that are arguably all stars. And never, ever give away a guy who is considered a great pitching prospect for a fricking reliever. "Moneyball" is "ahead of the curve" not whatever he calls his trading philosophy.

 

[NWinAZ]

Yes, I agree but from my recollection it's not like Pettite and Hitchcock were that far apart were they? And the primary guy in return was Davis. Not saying it was a good trade but I can't fault them for that since they did out and get some young guys. IMO the Kevin Mitchell trade was the worst during that time.

They were not far apart as for as current stats at the time, but as far as potential, well obviously we missed on that one. Yankees new because they refused to give Pettitte up. Not sure Davis was the primary on the deal though, but it has been a few years so maybe I remember wrong.

 

[wazzu31]

They were not far apart as for as current stats at the time, but as far as potential, well obviously we missed on that one. Yankees new because they refused to give Pettitte up. Not sure Davis was the primary on the deal though, but it has been a few years so maybe I remember wrong.

Ya, I could be wrong just going off of memory that I thought Davis was suppose to be some hot stuff coming in and only thing I even remember him for was the grand slam at Safeco.

 

[NWinAZ]

Davis was a top prospect...I mean a top Yankee prospect which means overrated by the propaganda machine.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Actually we wanted some guy named Pettitte and they turned it down and we settled for Hitchcock. Typical Mariners. We also had a deal for some young starter named Mariano Rivera but it was nixed at the last second.

Good lord ... Imagine that.... Also we lost Jeff Nelson and Sojo ... Painful ..

 

[NWinAZ]

yup.

 

[cezero]

This is why I laugh at all the people that take joy in a teams so called success which is one semi-competitive season in over 10 years.

Jack has one good season vs 4 or 5 bad ones and gets an extension.

Frank Wren has 3 2nd place finishes and 1 1st place finishes in 7 years and is fired.

This is why I will never consider us a real MLB franchise.

Very well put.

Sometimes, firing a manager is merely a PR stunt for an indifferent front office to get media/fans off their backs over poor performance. That's not the case with ATL.

Our beat writers/media personalities either pander to the M's organization, or don't care much about baseball compared to other sports. You won't find many who dare to criticize the priorities of the our ownership more than maybe with a tepid article or two in the offseason. It's not like that in real sports towns with storied pasts and fans hungry for wins.

I was hoping that the Squawks win would elevate Seattle to becoming a real sports town again like it was for a time in the 90s, but I guess it's still not enough to make this a baseball town.