Kawhi wants out of San Antonio

[CitySushi]

So you don't think they should try to get a superstar?

Because while this year's team would have matched up better with GS than Cleveland did, they still probably would have gotten swept. Because the Celtics were awful on the road and by game 3 Iggy was back.

There is a really large gap, and Kyrie and Hayward aren't closing it. Kawhi or LeBron just might.

Oh I wasn't following the chain of replies, I was just looking at what you were writing with respects to the Celtics and their team as constructed. I believe a team should always look to get better, but was just saying that discounting them in the event they do not have one, doesn't make them any less of a threat.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm with @msgkings322 here on this one. I get what you're saying about the superstar angle, but the Celtics present a unique problem for the Warriors in that they can provide multiple great wing athletes to help match up against the Warriors. The biggest difference between them and Houston is that every one of them can score too. It's not like they have Ariza or Tucker having to hang out in the corner. They have legitimate scorers at every position. The Celtics can attack the Warriors defense in multiple ways.

They are clearly a threat as constructed and healthy.

Who do the Celtics have that can stop KD?

Until the starting 5 of the Warriors is broken up, breaks down, or loses interest, they are going to keep winning titles.

I said after Game 4 that next year will likely be the hardest season for the Warriors to repeat and I stick by that. But they are still even odds favorites to win the title next year.

If the Celtics are able to bring in Lebron or Kawhi or make some other big splash move, that could all change.

But there is a reason why they are 6-1 to win the title and the Warriors are basically even odds. Heck they aren't even the favorites to get out of the East right now.

 

[LogicMan]

My point remains.

The NBA is changing... the old rules may not apply as strictly.

Stevens is on the cutting edge of positionless basketball and analytics... he's building something new, and on the lead wave of it.

I have been watching the NBA for a very very long time. Its always changing. Some people see that change, and some dont. Stevens and Ainge not only see it they have found the right players to force the change.

you need players who are two way, can guard almost anyone on switches, can shoot from all directions in addition to the three, and dont hold the ball for too long. I have to chuckle at the continued downplaying of the Celtics. I respect City Sushi. He knows who he will see next year, and dont think GS wont be preparing for them.

 

[tlance]

Oh I wasn't following the chain of replies, I was just looking at what you were writing with respects to the Celtics and their team as constructed. I believe a team should always look to get better, but was just saying that discounting them in the event they do not have one, doesn't make them any less of a threat.

Being a threat and having a puncher's chance is a lot different than building a dynasty, which is what the Celtics have the opportunity to do. They can't accomplish that without at least 1 superstar in the roster. And they have the assets to get that done.

They could play it safe and keep their current core as is. They might even get a title that way. But, my bet is that if they don't make a big deal they will be the bridesmaid an awful lot. Because the teams that are willing to take risks and make the bold move to get those stars are likely to pass them by, even when GS eventually fails.

 

[tlance]

I have been watching the NBA for a very very long time. Its always changing. Some people see that change, and some dont. Stevens and Ainge not only see it they have found the right players to force the change.

you need players who are two way, can guard almost anyone on switches, can shoot from all directions in addition to the three, and dont hold the ball for too long. I have to chuckle at the continued downplaying of the Celtics. I respect City Sushi. He knows who he will see next year, and dont think GS wont be preparing for them.

I do think the Celtics will win the East.

 

[CitySushi]

Who do the Celtics have that can stop KD?

Until the starting 5 of the Warriors is broken up, breaks down, or loses interest, they are going to keep winning titles.

I said after Game 4 that next year will likely be the hardest season for the Warriors to repeat and I stick by that. But they are still even odds favorites to win the title next year.

If the Celtics are able to bring in Lebron or Kawhi or make some other big splash move, that could all change.

But there is a reason why they are 6-1 to win the title and the Warriors are basically even odds. Heck they aren't even the favorites to get out of the East right now.

There's almost nobody in the NBA that can individually stop KD. Maybe Kawhi, but outside of him and possibly his own teammate in Draymond Green, there's not an individual defender out there than can make it really tough on him.

But here's the scenario for me that is the most intriguing. When the Warriors go small, at times it feels like they're playing 3 on 5 offense. It's just that 2 of the 3 of their offense are really unstoppable forces. But what the Celtics have at their advantage is when they go small to match up, they could have 5 guys all on the court that are capable of scoring at any given time, with or without the ball. Irving, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford collectively have more firepower than the Warriors.

The Celtics also have rangy defenders who have traditionally given the Warriors the most trouble. Look at what happened against Houston. They held the Warriors to low scoring games, it's just the Warriors defense was superior because Houston didn't have the horses to take advantage. Now again instead of having Ariza or Tucker, you have Brown and Tatum. You don't have to rely on a single play maker and hope they spot up shoot. You have guys who can play fluidly throughout an offense and contribute in multiple facets.

 

[LogicMan]

Yup. A healthy Celtics would have beaten the Cavs, IMO. And then lost in 5 to the Warriors.

Coach Stevens is .500 head to head with GS. Why? Because the Celtics know how to play defense and especially in the playoffs. And you will find that the Tatum/Fultz deal will go down as one of the most lopsided trades in Celtics history. Jason Tatum is already, already, as a teenager a beast, clutch, most multi tooled rookie in a long time. His time is not 2 years. His time is now. Welcome to the Tatum era in the East.

 

[LogicMan]

But here's the scenario for me that is the most intriguing. When the Warriors go small, at times it feels like they're playing 3 on 5 offense. It's just that 2 of the 3 of their offense are really unstoppable forces. But what the Celtics have at their advantage is when they go small to match up, they could have 5 guys all on the court that are capable of scoring at any given time, with or without the ball. Irving, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford collectively have more firepower than the Warriors.

The Celtics also have rangy defenders who have traditionally given the Warriors the most trouble. Look at what happened against Houston. They held the Warriors to low scoring games, it's just the Warriors defense was superior because Houston didn't have the horses to take advantage. Now again instead of having Ariza or Tucker, you have Brown and Tatum. You don't have to rely on a single play maker and hope they spot up shoot. You have guys who can play fluidly throughout an offense and contribute in multiple facets.

 

[LogicMan]

But here's the scenario for me that is the most intriguing. When the Warriors go small, at times it feels like they're playing 3 on 5 offense. It's just that 2 of the 3 of their offense are really unstoppable forces. But what the Celtics have at their advantage is when they go small to match up, they could have 5 guys all on the court that are capable of scoring at any given time, with or without the ball. Irving, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford collectively have more firepower than the Warriors.

The Celtics also have rangy defenders who have traditionally given the Warriors the most trouble. Look at what happened against Houston. They held the Warriors to low scoring games, it's just the Warriors defense was superior because Houston didn't have the horses to take advantage. Now again instead of having Ariza or Tucker, you have Brown and Tatum. You don't have to rely on a single play maker and hope they spot up shoot. You have guys who can play fluidly throughout an offense and contribute in multiple facets.

This is exactly right. What GS started Boston is building towards. You cannot have a liability with bad shooters, or bad defensive players, and they all need to be able to guard 6-7 to 7-0 foot players come playoffs. regular season displays aint winning you rings. in the playoffs, a coach will find your weak link and exploit. Thats how the Celts got as far as they did. Most teams are not creating their rosters correctly, but GS did and hopefully Boston will now. I see alot of switches on Steph by Brad next June

 

[LogicMan]

In fact here is a better way of explaining...............Terry Rozier could not guard Lebron, that simple. Cavs went to the switch, and the weakest link is exposed. Makes one wonder how must success a 6-4 (excluding Smart who is a freak) guard will have as a starter in the new NBA

 

[CitySushi]

Being a threat and having a puncher's chance is a lot different than building a dynasty, which is what the Celtics have the opportunity to do. They can't accomplish that without at least 1 superstar in the roster. And they have the assets to get that done.

They could play it safe and keep their current core as is. They might even get a title that way. But, my bet is that if they don't make a big deal they will be the bridesmaid an awful lot. Because the teams that are willing to take risks and make the bold move to get those stars are likely to pass them by, even when GS eventually fails.

Oh I'm all for them swinging for the fences. Like I said, they should do everything they can to improve as every team should always take this approach.

All I'm saying is don't discount the team as constructed. They're still very, very dangerous and a real threat. Just because I'm saying a threat now, doesn't mean that they couldn't be a bigger threat in the future if they're able to bring in a guy like Kawhi or Lebron.

 

[tlance]

Oh I'm all for them swinging for the fences. Like I said, they should do everything they can to improve as every team should always take this approach.

All I'm saying is don't discount the team as constructed. They're still very, very dangerous and a real threat. Just because I'm saying a threat now, doesn't mean that they couldn't be a bigger threat in the future if they're able to bring in a guy like Kawhi or Lebron.

For the record,

I think a potential trade of Kyrie + picks for Kawhi would give the Celtics a lot more than a puncher's chance against GS.

Kawhi is the game's best 2 way player, he can handle the ball and has great length. Kyrie is not a 2 way player. He isn't a terrible defender anymore, but he isn't an asset there either.

 

[flyerhawk]

But here's the scenario for me that is the most intriguing. When the Warriors go small, at times it feels like they're playing 3 on 5 offense. It's just that 2 of the 3 of their offense are really unstoppable forces. But what the Celtics have at their advantage is when they go small to match up, they could have 5 guys all on the court that are capable of scoring at any given time, with or without the ball. Irving, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Horford collectively have more firepower than the Warriors.

It is hard to talk about this specific line up since it has never played in an NBA game. Certainly it SHOULD be able to score but I'm not sure how good they would be defensively. And I disagree that it is MORE firepower than the Warriors given that the Warriors have perhaps the most firepower in a starting 5 in the history of basketball. Do you REALLY believe that they could winning a high powered duel against the Warriors?

The Celtics also have rangy defenders who have traditionally given the Warriors the most trouble. Look at what happened against Houston. They held the Warriors to low scoring games, it's just the Warriors defense was superior because Houston didn't have the horses to take advantage. Now again instead of having Ariza or Tucker, you have Brown and Tatum. You don't have to rely on a single play maker and hope they spot up shoot. You have guys who can play fluidly throughout an offense and contribute in multiple facets.

Yes but instead of having guys like Tucker and Capela providing stout defense, they are going to have a bunch of guys that are more offensive minded. It is guys like Baynes, Morris, and Smart that provided the defensive backbone to the Celtics this year.

I could certainly be wrong and that starting 5 could play great defense but I remain skeptical.

 

[flyerhawk]

Coach Stevens is .500 head to head with GS. Why? Because the Celtics know how to play defense and especially in the playoffs. And you will find that the Tatum/Fultz deal will go down as one of the most lopsided trades in Celtics history. Jason Tatum is already, already, as a teenager a beast, clutch, most multi tooled rookie in a long time. His time is not 2 years. His time is now. Welcome to the Tatum era in the East.

Well congratulations on all of your future championships.

 

[flyerhawk]

Oh I'm all for them swinging for the fences. Like I said, they should do everything they can to improve as every team should always take this approach.

All I'm saying is don't discount the team as constructed. They're still very, very dangerous and a real threat. Just because I'm saying a threat now, doesn't mean that they couldn't be a bigger threat in the future if they're able to bring in a guy like Kawhi or Lebron.

Of course they are a threat. So are the Rockets. So are the Sixers. Maybe the Spurs depending on the Kawhi situation.

But if you had to $1000 to bet next year, would you put it all down on the Warriors, or would you hedge?

 

[CitySushi]

It is hard to talk about this specific line up since it has never played in an NBA game. Certainly it SHOULD be able to score but I'm not sure how good they would be defensively. And I disagree that it is MORE firepower than the Warriors given that the Warriors have perhaps the most firepower in a starting 5 in the history of basketball. Do you REALLY believe that they could winning a high powered duel against the Warriors?



Yes but instead of having guys like Tucker and Capela providing stout defense, they are going to have a bunch of guys that are more offensive minded. It is guys like Baynes, Morris, and Smart that provided the defensive backbone to the Celtics this year.

I could certainly be wrong and that starting 5 could play great defense but I remain skeptical.

Collectively, as in the overall average sum of their parts. The Warriors have 3 elite scorers, and 2 who are basically after thoughts most games.

I mean, it's just my opinion that I believe that the Celtics if healthy as constructed would give the Warriors a real challenge. What I see is potential areas where the Celtics could exploit the Warriors. The Warriors are not invulnerable. But I feel like most around here just want to dismiss it as "nah, that won't happen".

 

[CitySushi]

Of course they are a threat. So are the Rockets. So are the Sixers. Maybe the Spurs depending on the Kawhi situation.

But if you had to $1000 to bet next year, would you put it all down on the Warriors, or would you hedge?

Dude, why you so dramatic today.

Warriors are CLEARLY still a favorite. I didn't say the Celtics were a favorite, I said they could pose a problem. What's wrong with that? How is that a hedge? By thinking there are other teams that could potentially have some semblance of a chance? LOL.

I think the Warriors will absolutely win the championship next year. And I will every year for the foreseeable future. But I'm also a basketball fan. I like looking at basketball from different angles and try to not be a homer as much as possible.

It's more fun for me to dissect a team's chances against the Warriors by looking at the Warriors weaknesses and strengths of their opposition. The Warriors are not infallible. They still need to try to get better every year too. They'll be addressing major changes this off-season to their roster.

 

[flyerhawk]

Collectively, as in the overall average sum of their parts. The Warriors have 3 elite scorers, and 2 who are basically after thoughts most games.

I mean, it's just my opinion that I believe that the Celtics if healthy as constructed would give the Warriors a real challenge. What I see is potential areas where the Celtics could exploit the Warriors. The Warriors are not invulnerable. But I feel like most around here just want to dismiss it as "nah, that won't happen".

Anything can happen. It's just not likely to happen.

Personally I believe that the Celtics are being overhyped a bit because they went further than people expected them to in the playoffs. If the Celitcs lose in Round 1 of the playoffs, which could have happened, then there wouldn't be all this talk of them being poised to beat the Warriors. Recency bias in action.

Which is not to say that they won't be a very good team. But there are so many things that still are going to happen in the offseason. As it stands they are, in my opinion, the favorite to get to the finals in the East. The Warriors are still the overwhelming favorites to win the title.

Of course things can change very quickly. The Celtics get Kawhi and that changes things. The Sixers get Lebron and that changes things.

 

[Tharvot]

If the Cavs can somehow get him, they will have a competitive chance against anyone

 

[flyerhawk]

Dude, why you so dramatic today.

Warriors are CLEARLY still a favorite. I didn't say the Celtics were a favorite, I said they could pose a problem. What's wrong with that? How is that a hedge? By thinking there are other teams that could potentially have some semblance of a chance? LOL.

I think the Warriors will absolutely win the championship next year. And I will every year for the foreseeable future. But I'm also a basketball fan. I like looking at basketball from different angles and try to not be a homer as much as possible.

It's more fun for me to dissect a team's chances against the Warriors by looking at the Warriors weaknesses and strengths of their opposition. The Warriors are not infallible. They still need to try to get better every year too. They'll be addressing major changes this off-season to their roster.

You kinda came in a little late to the discussion. One Celtic fan started this off by arguing that the Celtics were the favorites to win it all next year. Then another came in saying that they are serious title challengers to dethrone the Warriors. That kinda set the table.

Of course the Celtics can beat the Warriors. So can the Rockets. So can the Sixers. So can whatever team Lebron goes to. But without a change in any of their rosters, it isn't very likely.