"Grumble, I don't like it!" - tOfficial VTfoozball thread

[hokiegrad]

How many times do I have to tell you that I'm talking about players that the VT staff has already offered? That means they already have the TAHedison stamp of approval. Geez. And hell yes there are plenty of WRs across the nation that are more physically gifted than Newsome otherwise he would be a five star

Obviously the coaches like North and Newsome enough to offer both, yes. That doesn't mean they have North higher on their board! It is not as simple as saying the kid with the better measurables/ratings must be higher on our board if we're satisfied enough with his character and grades to offer. Measurables don't tell you the whole story past the point of offering any more than they tell you the whole story before that point. There are a lot of non-measurables besides character and grades, like football IQ and work rate and such, that can make a guy with lesser measurables be higher on our board than someone with better measurables... though we like both enough to offer. And no, the recruiting service rankings don't necessarily correct for that. They don't take a lot of things into account that they should. And their focus is more widely distributed than the VT staff's, which keeps them (the recruiting services) from looking as deeply.

 

[VTfoozball]

Wow. You just don't get it, do you?

According to the recruiting services "there are plenty of WRs across the nation that are more physically giftedthan Newsome otherwise he would be a five star".

Again, you keep focusing on the "physically gifted" part of a player's evaluation by the recruiting services when so much more goes into it.

Just curious, but you do realize that the highlight films posted by the recruiting services and players are just that...highlights. Period.

We don't see the plays where the players do nothing, drop passes, miss blocks, or just flat-out quit. That's why the coaching staff personally watches the players play and talks to the people that know them, including their opponents. That's also why they will have certain players at the top of their recruiting board when someone else may appear to be more "physically gifted"

One last point...you seem to go out of your way to disrespect Tech fans and insiders who have been following Tech's college recruiting a lot longer than you have. Why is that exactly?

So I guess you are assuming that all the players who seem to be more physically gifted on VTs target list have hidden problems? Great logic there. Thanks for clearing that up. You are one of those types that almost never finds fault with a VT coach or player, attacks people who do, and is completely satisfied with the VT football program the way it is. Every VT player is the best ever and every VT coach is the best ever. Got it. I don't have an infinite amount of patience with people especially those who ignore what they want to regarding what I say and disagree with me without using facts to back up their argument

 

[VTfoozball]

this is just getting rediculous....

It takes two. And remember all of this started because I said I like certain players that VT has offered better than others. Everyone else here does too but they won't say it. Never said a VT commit sucked

 

[VTfoozball]

Obviously the coaches like North and Newsome enough to offer both, yes. That doesn't mean they have North higher on their board! It is not as simple as saying the kid with the better measurables/ratings must be higher on our board if we're satisfied enough with his character and grades to offer. Measurables don't tell you the whole story past the point of offering any more than they tell you the whole story before that point. There are a lot of non-measurables besides character and grades, like football IQ and work rate and such, that can make a guy with lesser measurables be higher on our board than someone with better measurables... though we like both enough to offer. And no, the recruiting service rankings don't necessarily correct for that. They don't take a lot of things into account that they should. And their focus is more widely distributed than the VT staff's, which keeps them (the recruiting services) from looking as deeply.

I have an opinion based on what I see. You have an opinion based on what? You are protecting VT commits for what reason?

 

[bigesse16]

Or film evidently which is what I've looked at. I wish the coaches would set you guys straight about the players they've looked at since they have the only opinion that really matters. I'm sure they have favorites and a tiered system.

Of course they have favorites. And I'd bet that Newsome was more of a favorite than North because he is a legacy and is a VA kid. That will probably make you even angrier. I have no problem with disagreeing with offering a kid, as I have too, but to sit there and not be happy a kid is a Hokie now is just sad and say that the kid is a "program sustainer" is ridiculous. You don't know that, nor can you predict it. Why not be happy that VT has a player wanting to play for them?

You seem to take it personal that a kid committed and wasn't rated a 4-5 star player. What if he was though? What happens if at the end of his senior year the recruiting services re-evaluate (which they will) and they will change how players are ranked and Newsome is bumped up? Will you then change your mind and say we'll he's a 4 star so he must be good?

The kid was offered in November of his junior year. That was before guys like Ekanem, Manning, Harris, Coleman, etc. were offered in their high school careers. That has to say something about what the coaches think about him.

 

[VTfoozball]

lol me ANGRY. But seriously I am NOT unhappy that Newsome is a Hokie although there are some I would be happier with. And what's wrong with being a program sustainer? Things could be much worse. I look at film not recruiting service rankings only and most of the time they do match up. I've watched football for many years and I can see differences between players. I'm not a talent scout but it doesn't take one to notice differences and see that some are better athletes, faster etc

 

[Sleepy T]

So I guess you are assuming that all the players who seem to be more physically gifted on VTs target list have hidden problems? Great logic there. Thanks for clearing that up. You are one of those types that almost never finds fault with a VT coach or player, attacks people who do, and is completely satisfied with the VT football program the way it is. Every VT player is the best ever and every VT coach is the best ever. Got it. I don't have an infinite amount of patience with people especially those who ignore what they want to regarding what I say and disagree with me without using facts to back up their argument

Ehhhh. Foozball. I don't think that is what he said. I'm not playing sides here but it is quite obvious almost everyone on here has shown you the FACTS with supporting sites that "measurables" do not exactly translate to success. I am not quite sure what you don't get about that. You havent been here long enough to see who the "Superhomers" are...which is nooone really. We all want to win and all want to improve, but most of us realize that we are pretty damned good despite losing 2 or 3 games a year. Your expectations are thru the sky. Join the 'Bama bandwagon..because anything less than 4 star players and National Championships is not gonna be good enough for you. ROLL TIDE!!!

Things could be much worse. I look at film not recruiting service rankings only and most of the time they do match up. I've watched football for many years and I can see differences between players. I'm not a talent scout but it doesn't take one to notice differences and rate players

Yeah..it kind of does.

CK is right. This is getting too over the top.
You guys have fun. I am done with this thread....its giving me a headache...

 

[sparko]

plus foozball, you seem to totally disregard the logistical standpoint of recruiting .. You cast a net out and offer more receivers (in this example) than spots that you have. You offer based on MANY factors, such as:
- location. rich areas in VA preferred -- why?? because we are in Virginia. Kids are closer, more likely to commit, and if they do --> more likely to help recruit in the future ... continues to prove that VT is committed to recruiting the state of Virginia
- their assessment of physical tools, physical/athletic upside
- intangibles, such as character, work ethic, football IQ -- shit YOU CAN'T REALLY COACH
- how likely, based on several factors, they think it is that the kid would consider coming to VT

Then comes the logistics piece. They have X number of schollies, they designate X number of schollies for the WR position, X number for DBs, and so on .. They set aside a handful of schollies for certain players (i.e. Kendall Fuller, Bucky Hodges) << These guys have a spot saved for them, regardless .. they will not be turned away). From that point, it's pretty much a first-come, first-serve kinda thing. They don't have the time or resources to recruit every 4+ star WR west of the Mississippi. And why would they when there is a 0% chance that 99% of these kids will come to VT .. or a good chance that some will commit, then wait for a better offer (see VT<->Florida) to just decommit. So what happens if they have too many of these "saved spots" and not enough first-come, first-serve spots?? You come up SHORT in many cases....period .. You replace 3 WR spots (that are first-come) with three saved spots (say Hamilton, Lemay, North). Let's say you land Hamilton but miss out on Lemay and North and the other 3* WRs in Virginia all said "Fuck this. I'm not waiting on a spot. I'll go with UVA" .. Guess what? You need two WRs and all the other good options have committed elsewhere .. so you get the leftovers.

VT doesn't give a shit about recruiting services. They make their own decisions based on what they see ... I've already heard that by the end of this cycle, Carlis Parker and Cequan Jefferson could be 4*, seems like Holland Fisher (with his accolades) may be breaking top 50. VT offered Anthony Jennings a LONG time ago .. Wait for everyone else to jump on the train. He had his chance and probably missed VT's train. That's the way it goes. For someone who has such a strong opinion on it, you don't seem to understand how recruiting really works.

 

[NickVT10]

It takes two. And remember all of this started because I said I like certain players that VT has offered better than others. Everyone else here does too but they won't say it. Never said a VT commit sucked

Its because you keep focusing on measureables as to why one guy is better than another, not his on field performance. You are also assuming a lot about guys that are still 16 years old. We get excited about all the commits because we are fans of the program and enjoy watching players want to come play here no matter the star rankings. Do we want 5 and 4 * guys? Yes, of course. Are we bothered by a 3 * committing? Not at all. We see the potential in these guys while you see him as not being tall enough or fast enough in the film you watched, never have seen this guy run or play in person. Not every great player has the perfect measureables and there are a ton who have that size and speed that never hack it on the field and get beat out by guys like Newsome. We don't get down on the kids because we don't know how they will turn out and we aren't judging him by how he looks.

If this were baseball you would assume the pitcher who could throw the hardest was the best pitcher but in fact, guys like Greg Maddux were a lot better than the hard throwers even though their fastballs barely hit 90.

I read your posts and most are spewing with ignorance to the game of football and what it takes to be a football player.

 

[Camfantasy]

It takes two. And remember all of this started because I said I like certain players that VT has offered better than others. Everyone else here does too but they won't say it. Never said a VT commit sucked

Everybody here likes some players potential more than others. That is not the path you have been taking, and people who have even mildly been following your posts should know that.

 

[Camfantasy]

Its because you keep focusing on measureables as to why one guy is better than another, not his on field performance. You are also assuming a lot about guys that are still 16 years old. We get excited about all the commits because we are fans of the program and enjoy watching players want to come play here no matter the star rankings. Do we want 5 and 4 * guys? Yes, of course. Are we bothered by a 3 * committing? Not at all. We see the potential in these guys while you see him as not being tall enough or fast enough in the film you watched, never have seen this guy run or play in person. Not every great player has the perfect measureables and there are a ton who have that size and speed that never hack it on the field and get beat out by guys like Newsome. We don't get down on the kids because we don't know how they will turn out and we aren't judging him by how he looks.

If this were baseball you would assume the pitcher who could throw the hardest was the best pitcher but in fact, guys like Greg Maddux were a lot better than the hard throwers even though their fastballs barely hit 90.

I read your posts and most are spewing with ignorance to the game of football and what it takes to be a football player.

Did I just see a Greg Maddox reference in a VT football recruiting dispute? Rep for the creativity!!

 

[HokieGhost]

So I guess you are assuming that all the players who seem to be more physically gifted on VTs target list have hidden problems? Great logic there. Thanks for clearing that up. You are one of those types that almost never finds fault with a VT coach or player, attacks people who do, and is completely satisfied with the VT football program the way it is. Every VT player is the best ever and every VT coach is the best ever. Got it. I don't have an infinite amount of patience with people especially those who ignore what they want to regarding what I say and disagree with me without using facts to back up their argument

Speaking of logic, or lack thereof, can you point out the exact post, or posts, where I supposedly stated or inferred that I'm "assuming that all the players who seem to be more physically gifted on VTs target list have hidden problems?" You state that you're big on facts, but where are the facts to back up your comment?

Additionally, when the coaches create lists of recruits to whom they wish to make offers, they rank them at each position according to a variety of factors, some of which are intangibles not shared outside the staff. At each position, someone gets ranked #1, someone else gets ranked #2, etc., until the board gets filled at each position. It doesn't mean anyone has "hidden problems", only that the staff likes one player better than another. If their #1 player goes somewhere else, they simply go to #2 on the list.

Here's the part of your post I found to be completely hilarious: "You are one of those types that almost never finds fault with a VT coach or player, attacks people who do, and is completely satisfied with the VT football program the way it is. Every VT player is the best ever and every VT coach is the best ever."

Wow. If you really think I'm attacking you, then you need to grow a lot thicker skin. You make negative comments about recruits, players, and coaches, but whine every time someone calls you on it.

I've been critical of a number of things about the program but I don't harp on it with nearly every post. I make a comment and then I move on. If you had been paying attention you would know what concerns me the most, but you've been so focused on blasting high school kids you probably missed those posts. Then again, you haven't been here that long, so how would you know what I've stated in the past?

To answer your rather comical assertion, I do believe that each Tech coach and player gives 110% to the program and does their absolute best to improve where they're weak. If that's being satisfied with the football program, then so be it.

As far as patience goes with other posters, you better get a lot more of it because I doubt seriously anyone here is going to allow you to get away with the crap you've been spewing.

 

[hokiecheme11]

Everybody here likes some players potential more than others. That is not the path you have been taking, and people who have even mildly been following your posts should know that.

Speaking of, I'm really excited to see Dahman McKinnon and Davion Tookes in this year's class. Dahman is a tackling machine and Davion looks like he can cover anyone.

Aside from them, I guess I'm most excited to see what Caleb has to offer

 

[VTfoozball]

plus foozball, you seem to totally disregard the logistical standpoint of recruiting .. You cast a net out and offer more receivers (in this example) than spots that you have. You offer based on MANY factors, such as:
- location. rich areas in VA preferred -- why?? because we are in Virginia. Kids are closer, more likely to commit, and if they do --> more likely to help recruit in the future ... continues to prove that VT is committed to recruiting the state of Virginia
- their assessment of physical tools, physical/athletic upside
- intangibles, such as character, work ethic, football IQ -- shit YOU CAN'T REALLY COACH
- how likely, based on several factors, they think it is that the kid would consider coming to VT

Then comes the logistics piece. They have X number of schollies, they designate X number of schollies for the WR position, X number for DBs, and so on .. They set aside a handful of schollies for certain players (i.e. Kendall Fuller, Bucky Hodges) << These guys have a spot saved for them, regardless .. they will not be turned away). From that point, it's pretty much a first-come, first-serve kinda thing. They don't have the time or resources to recruit every 4+ star WR west of the Mississippi. And why would they when there is a 0% chance that 99% of these kids will come to VT .. or a good chance that some will commit, then wait for a better offer (see VT<->Florida) to just decommit. So what happens if they have too many of these "saved spots" and not enough first-come, first-serve spots?? You come up SHORT in many cases....period .. You replace 3 WR spots (that are first-come) with three saved spots (say Hamilton, Lemay, North). Let's say you land Hamilton but miss out on Lemay and North and the other 3* WRs in Virginia all said "Fuck this. I'm not waiting on a spot. I'll go with UVA" .. Guess what? You need two WRs and all the other good options have committed elsewhere .. so you get the leftovers.

VT doesn't give a shit about recruiting services. They make their own decisions based on what they see ... I've already heard that by the end of this cycle, Carlis Parker and Cequan Jefferson could be 4*, seems like Holland Fisher (with his accolades) may be breaking top 50. VT offered Anthony Jennings a LONG time ago .. Wait for everyone else to jump on the train. He had his chance and probably missed VT's train. That's the way it goes. For someone who has such a strong opinion on it, you don't seem to understand how recruiting really works.

Which leaves open the door for better recruits going elsewhere. I have my opinions of which players are better but I see that around here as long as they aren't VT commits then they aren't better players

 

[VTfoozball]

Speaking of logic, or lack thereof, can you point out the exact post, or posts, where I supposedly stated or inferred that I'm "assuming that all the players who seem to be more physically gifted on VTs target list have hidden problems?" You state that you're big on facts, but where are the facts to back up your comment?

Additionally, when the coaches create lists of recruits to whom they wish to make offers, they rank them at each position according to a variety of factors, some of which are intangibles not shared outside the staff. At each position, someone gets ranked #1, someone else gets ranked #2, etc., until the board gets filled at each position. It doesn't mean anyone has "hidden problems", only that the staff likes one player better than another. If their #1 player goes somewhere else, they simply go to #2 on the list.

Here's the part of your post I found to be completely hilarious: "You are one of those types that almost never finds fault with a VT coach or player, attacks people who do, and is completely satisfied with the VT football program the way it is. Every VT player is the best ever and every VT coach is the best ever."

Wow. If you really think I'm attacking you, then you need to grow a lot thicker skin. You make negative comments about recruits, players, and coaches, but whine every time someone calls you on it.

I've been critical of a number of things about the program but I don't harp on it with nearly every post. I make a comment and then I move on. If you had been paying attention you would know what concerns me the most, but you've been so focused on blasting high school kids you probably missed those posts. Then again, you haven't been here that long, so how would you know what I've stated in the past?

To answer your rather comical assertion, I do believe that each Tech coach and player gives 110% to the program and does their absolute best to improve where they're weak. If that's being satisfied with the football program, then so be it.

As far as patience goes with other posters, you better get a lot more of it because I doubt seriously anyone here is going to allow you to get away with the crap you've been spewing.

It was the post I replied to where you brought up other various factors that played into the coaches evaluations. It sure seemed like you were using those to defend someone like Newsome and cut down someone like North

 

[VTfoozball]

Everybody here likes some players potential more than others. That is not the path you have been taking, and people who have even mildly been following your posts should know that.

clarify

 

[VTfoozball]

Speaking of, I'm really excited to see Dahman McKinnon and Davion Tookes in this year's class. Dahman is a tackling machine and Davion looks like he can cover anyone.

Aside from them, I guess I'm most excited to see what Caleb has to offer

Haven't seen Tookes but McKinnon looks like an ideal WHIP despite not being the biggest guy. See I like VT commits

 

[VTfoozball]

Its because you keep focusing on measureables as to why one guy is better than another, not his on field performance.

Film is not on the field performance? Oh I know if it's good film and he's not a VT commit then he must take plays off or be a future coke addict

 

[sparko]

i just de-repped you ... you're really making an ass of yourself ya know?

scout board is ..... that way >>>>>>>>>

 

[VTfoozball]

NOOOOOO

Are they delusional over there too?

But I am now done with this thread because the majority of you are not making sense to me and I'm sure the feeling is mutual