Eagles realease Mathis

[deerpathdave]

So left guards are now the deterring factor in a teams won/loss record?

Exactly not. Guards simply are not that important. Realistically, Mathis's play (good or bad) probably had little impact on the bottom line wins and losses.

 

[ctc]

Its a typo. Should be 2.5 times. The difficulty with evaluating line play is that its very much a team effort, and really only the coach can properly assign responsibility as an outsider evaluating tape really doesn't know. So we kind of have to trust the coaches on this one when they say they are comfortable with the backups. As an outsider, we can only really evaluate the line play as a whole (as the author did). And there really is little question that the line as a whole performed as good or better without Mathis last year. As the author notes, there can be a myriad of reasons for that. Suffice it to say though that losing an Offensive Guard (regardless of how good) has rarely had a huge impact on a team's performance.

Of course they're comfortable with it. What would you expect them to say about the back-ups. They're not that good but we're happy to live with it?

 

[ctc]

Exactly not. Guards simply are not that important. Realistically, Mathis's play (good or bad) probably had little impact on the bottom line wins and losses.

Then what, exactly, was your point in referencing the teams record with and without him?

 

[Deano]

Another option is Jake Long. He may be ready to move to a guard spot as he gets older.

 

[eaglesnut]

Pretty good analysis from Mike Sielski....

Let's look at last season, then, and what Mathis may or may not have meant to the Eagles' offensive line, taking into account all the possible caveats and factors. Those factors include the quality of the Eagles' opponent each week and the understanding that a quarterback can be as responsible for causing sacks, or even more responsible, than an offensive line.

Mathis played in nine games: the season opener, when Nick Foles was the starting quarterback, and the eight games that Mark Sanchez started. Over the seven games that Mathis missed, the Eagles averaged 122 rushing yards a game. Over the nine games he played, they averaged 127. The difference was negligible.

It wasn't when it came to protecting Foles or Sanchez. Foles threw 311 passes last season, Sanchez 309. But Foles, who started seven games without Mathis, was sacked on just 2.8 percent of his pass attempts. Sanchez, who didn't start a game without Mathis, was sacked 6.9 percent of the time. That's 21/2 times more frequently than Foles. You can say that disparity was based largely on Sanchez's tendency to hold the ball, or Foles' to get rid of it. What you can't say is that Mathis made the Eagles' pass protection, or their run-blocking, significantly better last season. Chip Kelly definitely wouldn't, and as everyone learned again Thursday, his is the only opinion that counts.


Read more at Kelly dismisses another star who wouldn't buy in

That shows the huge drop off from Foles to Sanchez. Foles fixed his "getting sacked" problem, although it led to more turnovers and more backpedaling. Sanchez came in and defenses were more free to attack because of the lack of downfield attempts and downfield success.

 

[deerpathdave]

Then what, exactly, was your point in referencing the teams record with and without him?

Well the nervous Nancys that chimed in earlier on the thread are predicting a 4 win season now that they lost the great Evan Mathis. Ridiculous really given that they went 5-2 without him last year. I am not saying they are better off without him necessarily, just not worse off. You can't simply plug in any warm body at guard and expect to win, but you can pickup street Free Agents, put them in your strength and conditioning program for 2-3 years, train them in your system and end up with a productive player. They did that with Mathis, and they think they can have the same success with Barbre and Tobin.

 

[deerpathdave]

That shows the huge drop off from Foles to Sanchez. Foles fixed his "getting sacked" problem, although it led to more turnovers and more backpedaling. Sanchez came in and defenses were more free to attack because of the lack of downfield attempts and downfield success.

I don't disagree or agree. There are many moving parts, so as an outsider, you don't know enough to accurately put the blame for any particular stat on one player. We can tell where Chip places blame by his personnel moves. He kept Sanchez, shipped Foles out of town, and released Mathis.

 

[eaglesnut]

Also the rushing yardage may have been comparable, but that is mostly explained by the fact that we were winning. What was the YPC difference?

 

[eaglesnut]

I don't disagree or agree. There are many moving parts, so as an outsider, you don't know enough to accurately put the blame for any particular stat on one player. We can tell where Chip places blame by his personnel moves.

Not if the personnel moves are personal.

Which is the worry most people here are expressing. And I share that concern, even though I don't find this move to be that awful.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

YAWN

A 30-something malcotent demands more money and pisses off all his teammates.
He plays a position that traditionally is one of lesser importance.
The Eagles actively try and trade him for 2 years, but not a single team offered even a 5th round pick.
The Eagle cut him.

I don't really see what the big deal is?

I would rather have a lesser talent with more team chemistry at that position, honestly than a more talented jackass.

 

[eaglesnut]

YAWN

A 30-something malcotent demands more money and pisses off all his teammates.
He plays a position that traditionally is one of lesser importance.
The Eagles actively try and trade him for 2 years, but not a single team offered even a 5th round pick.
The Eagle cut him.

I don't really see what the big deal is?

I would rather have a lesser talent with more team chemistry at that position, honestly than a more talented jackass.

In a vacuum, sure I agree. But Chip's handling of professionals remains in question.

 

[djm]

He is a good player but our line sucked because of injuries. It looked a lot better when Johnson and Kelce came back. We also get a couple lineman back what were on IR last year as well. Some times you just have to part ways with a player and this is one of those times.

Do also agree that playing between Kelce and Peters can tend to make you look much better.

 

[deerpathdave]

Not if the personnel moves are personal.

Which is the worry most people here are expressing. And I share that concern, even though I don't find this move to be that awful.

I think its more personal for the some of the fans than the coach. I really don't think Kelly gives a crap about anyone or anything that doesn't help him win a football game. Long term neither do the fans, but in the short term, they go all Nancy every time a player they know gets cut for one they don't.

Kelly doesn't share that nervousness as he knows 10 times more than us. He has the tapes and grades from each practice. He knows who is in the weight room every day, and heck he even knows how many hours they sleep at night. He sees the dedication and progress up close every day in very tangible ways.

 

[lpennington]

Mathis was a high pick, though. Right?

[QUOTE="deerpathdave, post: 6756040, member: 8527" You can't simply plug in any warm body at guard and expect to win, but you can pickup street Free Agents, put them in your strength and conditioning program for 2-3 years, train them in your system and end up with a productive player. They did that with Mathis, and they think they can have the same success with Barbre and Tobin.[/QUOTE]

 

[deerpathdave]

Mathis was a high pick, though. Right?

[QUOTE="deerpathdave, post: 6756040, member: 8527" You can't simply plug in any warm body at guard and expect to win, but you can pickup street Free Agents, put them in your strength and conditioning program for 2-3 years, train them in your system and end up with a productive player. They did that with Mathis, and they think they can have the same success with Barbre and Tobin.

[/QUOTE]

The Eagles picked him up as a street free agent to a one year cheap contract in 2011. At the time, he was a journeyman who had never held a starting job for very long and played for several teams.

 

[NDIrishGuy]

Those stats are a prime example of 'figures don't lie and liars figure'. 21.5x more frequently

And how many of those sacks was Mathis responsible for? Without providing that information the author is offering a narrative, not insight.

To be fair 21/2 would actually be 10.5x more frequently....

 

[NDIrishGuy]

In a vacuum, sure I agree. But Chip's handling of professionals remains in question.

Does it though? Loud mouths who talk negatively in public and/or don't buy into the regiment that Chip has planned get cut. Players who show up and bust their asses and stay quiet stay. I wouldn't say there is any question as to what Chip expects at this point. If you want out, become a malcontent.

 

[L.Freamon]

this makes me fall back on my very first impression of Chip and my 1 primary concern.

I am concerned that Chip is so used to dealing with college kids that are simply mini-yes-men that never question anything and just happy to get playing time and wouldn't DARE do anything but say "how high" when a coach tells them to jump - that he is very fast to get rid of anyone that gives him any resistance whatsoever. These are not college kids, but grown men that are paid and this is their living. I'm "NOT" saying I'm defending Mathis in any way or not - I'm simply renewing a concern and find this as continued evidence that Chip will shoot himself (and this team) in the foot to avoid difficulties that are simply part of the business side of the NFL. I am not sure you can win a championship getting rid of players at this rate, when you can't replacement at the same rate. Is this going to 'demotivate' higher achievement because then that will make you worth more money, and they will get rid of you before paying you. Is this going to make PHI have a reputation among the elite or veterans that this is not the place to go? Can we win with the youngest roster of people that have not come into their own yet and are going to want more money??? Chip is use to players rotating out and believing that scheme is everything. That is one of the HUGE differences between college and the pro level. I don't believe you can just scheme into a championship. I think you have to have that AND some elite talent as well. I'm not sure Chip realizes this yet.

I agree with this. This "my way or the highway" only works on Pro Players in 2 situations in the NFL:
-You're paying them boatloads of money
-You've got a championship history (Bill Belechick, Bill Parcells come to mind)

Fact is Chip weakened the team in a critical position over some personal bullshit. We have a QB with a glass knee and Chip is butthurt because Mathis--a "Chip guy" by all accounts--didn't come to a VOLUNTARY workout. Mathis was otherwise honoring his contract

Chip is also the one to go to the media and call out Mathis saying "nobody wants him". That wasn't very professional.

Had Mathis skipped a day of next week's mandatory mini camp (and thus violating his contract), i'd me more inline with cutting him. But right now, after the draft where we're now only 1 man deep at Guard, shortsighted move.

Chips now dumped 9 starters and 5 probowlers. And Riley Cooper is still here.

 

[L.Freamon]

The Eagles did fine without him last year

No we didn't. We won some games but Foles and Shady struggled mightily.

 

[deerpathdave]

I think the pro game is not really that much different than college. The average career is only about four years for both and your typically dealing with 25% roster churn every year in both. This sport is as much about intensity and preparation as anything else and that is what Chip is focused on.

The only real big difference is you have a cadre of players who earn 2nd and 3rd contracts and play for 8-12 years. You need these guys to be your team leaders and difference makers....not your malcontents who only show up and do the minimum. Chip didn't like McCoy, DJAX and Mathis as those guys.

Who are Chip's second contract guys??
- Jason Peters
- Jason Kelce
- Brent Celek
- Demarco Murray
- Darren Sproles
- Brandon Graham
- DeMeco Ryans
- Connor Barwin
- Malcolm Jenkins

These are exactly the sort of guys that you need as team leaders, and I don't get the impression Chip is having any difficulty managing this type of pro player. In fact two thirds of these guys have signed or re-signed under Chip. Chip just has little use for the guys that are more into the money and celebrity than the football.