DOA

[JohnU]

It's coffin-nail time in Milwaukee.

 

[eburg5000]

If they snap out of it, they can still maybe get a wild card, but you have to admit they have really fallen apart. And with out any real reason, No significant injuries. I have to think that unless they put something together that the Brewers will be cleaning house, as far as manager,GM and coaches.

 

[redsfan03]

Milwaukee has taken a 2013 Reds nosedive. They may be able to limp into one of the Wild Card spots but they won't win a game in the playoffs.

 

[JohnU]

Milwaukee may not finish .500.
Meanwhile the Reds are officially the worst team in baseball since the all-star break.

 

[JohnU]

Just as an aside, the Reds won 6 games against the American League -- including 3 against the Indians.

They were 3-13 against the AL East ... 2 wins against Tampa and 1 against Toronto.

THAT IS IT.

Honestly, I can't see supporting Price's return to this team. If all it was about was Votto, there is zero way you can say that Votto was responsible for a 3-13 record against the AL-East.

 

[Redsfan1507]

The Reds offense is obviously the big contributor-to losing. Votto is the highest paid Red ever, because he was/is expected to be the big bat to build around. Pitchers were still pitching around Votto when he was hitting .255, and that usually forces other factors- namely how the pitch the guy in front and behind him in the lineup. Id say the offense was reduced without Votto, regardless of his in-effectiveness because of that....especially when the "bat" that replaces him is a guy like Santiago or Hannahan.

No guarantees, but it looks like Mesoraco and Frazier might be a couple of the "righty bats" the Reds are always looking for, but they can't overcome dissapear wince of the lefty bats-Votto and Bruce.

Losing to the AL East isn't why the Reds are where they are, but why they lost to the AL East ( or any teams) is why they are where they are. They don't hit enough. They sure can't overcome that without either Votto, Bruce, or the more than quarter billion they paid them to go get someone that can hit.

Reds have to count on the incredible shrinking Bruce and the invisible man Votto to earn their money next year. Hamilton, Frazier, Mesoraco, Phillips, Pena, are all good supporting cast members. They need a LF and a way to get Mesoraco in the lineup more. Maybe they are related ?

 

[eburg5000]

The Brewers will get better this weekend, they are playing the Reds.

 

[JohnU]

I am not seeing evidence that Bruce has become anything other than a bad hitter. His defense is even questionable. He admitted 135 games into the season that he sucked, as if his numbers weren't showing that as far back as 2012 ... that he's vulnerable to long slumps. What bothers me is that admitting to it and continuing to perform this way since then ... who is responsible for that? He didn't tell us what we didn't know ... I just figured he'd try to improve. So far, he's going down down down.

Honestly don't know what to make of the Votto situation. He obviously doesn't want to play until he's well ... same thing that happened to Derrick Rose with the Bulls ... kept sitting it out hoping to be 100 percent and finally, somebody said, "when exactly does that day come?"

I don't know if left field is our problem though it's been going on 7 years now that we've had the Mormon Tabernacle Choir auditioning to play there. At least Adam Dunn was ... well, who cares about him?

I see 2nd base as the problem spot next year. Phillips is doing a gradual disappearing act, will play out his contract and try to make a last hurrah in Atlanta, where he lives. Whatever.

None of the guys we are seeing this fall will make the roster next year.

The bullpen has become a joke. Did Ondrusek actually do what I saw last night? Threw one in the dirt, then a 'here, hit it' groover ...

Chapman, meanwhile ...........

Price has shown me that he can't motivate a team and I don't know if that's really his job at this point.

I am soundly insulted by the way this operation has gone sour. It doesn't look good next year either.

Brayan Pena is the team's MVP, only because he busts his ass.

 

[JohnU]

Brooski's lose again. I hear some of the fans are very close to the edge.

On a related disaster, did anybody else find it amusing that J.J. (Herbert) Hoover could not even get out of a no-brainer inning with his team up by 5 runs. The guy threw 30 pitches and got 2 outs.

 

[eburg5000]

It certainly is disappointing when your team is leading the division most of the season, and do what the Brewers have done. But this is sports, never a sure thing. Its hard to win consistently in this league.
Unless its the Cardinals, who are always in contention, and get hot at the end of a season. And if they have a key injury. They always seem to fill the hole with somebody, that comes from nowhere, and has a career year.

 

[JohnU]

St Louis has an organization built to contend every year. They play the long season, which most teams -- including the Reds -- are only vaguely aware of.
Reds started the season with Simon in the rotation -- KNOWING from the first day that he wouldn't last the year without hitting a wall. They endeavored to fix the problem by pretending it didn't matter.

They started the year with Cingrani in the rotation -- KNOWING he couldn't get anybody out with an eye-high fastball and no breaking pitch. Mechanics -- as screwed up as a Howdy Doody stage.

The bench was Santiago, Schumaker and Heisey ... Schumaker got hurt and they had zero plan.

Brayan Pena ended up being the best hitter on the team for most of May while the rest of the operation was on the DL.

Point is: This outfit knew in May that it couldn't contend and pawned off the "when we get healthy" lie ... until it was clear that Marshall and Chapman should be mentioned in the same sentence because one wears 54 and the other wears 45. Lefties, I reckon.

The farm system has nothing ready unless you want Lutz and Soto to be your cogs.

Can't fix this stuff at midseason and should not attempt to plan a long-range winning strategy if you have to make it up as you go along.

St. Louis knew the day that Pujols was told to hit the bricks that they needed to find new solutions. They used that money to sign their best COLLEGE pitching prospects -- guys who would be ready in 2 years ... not 6 or 7 like the Reds. By the time Stephenson gets the call, he will be 25 years old.

Cincy has let its farm system rot on the vine and spent all its time signing guys like Cairo, Hannahan, Valdez and Schumaker, Pena ... and hoping guys like Ludwick would hit 37 home runs again after they outlawed all the PEDs.

St. Louis isn't lucky.

 

[WvuDieHard]

I said 2 years ago---Trade Bruce. Oh yea he hit some HR's and had a decent average but he was streaky when he did that. Now he is just awful while playing at a AA capacity. This organization's front office is a bunch of idiots. Going into the season, we all knew hitting was the issue. The front office didn't make an effort to fix that. That, my friends, is a slap in the face to the fans that buy tickets. Even more troublesome was the "when we get healthy" excuse. Healthy has nothing to do with it. Votto could hit .330 and it wasn't going to be enough to carry the 6-8 losers that crowd the lineup. If it is me, we rebuild now. Only players that are safe are Frazier, Cueto, Chapman, Votto, and Meso. I would unload any and or all of the rest for the right talent.

 

[Redsfan1507]

They traded another 1st round pick-Stubbs...remind me, I don't remember, who they got for him ? The point is, you go bankrupt selling low. Selling high loses fans-at least at first. If the Reds had traded Votto after his MVP year, they couldn't have given tickets away, but might be in a very different situation now. What about current sell high guys ? Wanna try trading Latos, Cueto and or Chapman ? They either do that, or they'll get expensive and still won't have an offense, and who's going to pitch ? 2006 all over again...

Brandon Phillips is a good example of deciding you need to trade s guy two years too late. They tried all winter, and according to rumor, the best going offers for him were 2nd tier minor leaguers and the Reds had to pick up a portion of BP's contract. Then there was Dan Uggla's contract straight up from Atlanta, and the Yankees thought a speedy light hitting LF was too much for BP. Local fans like BP's smile, and highlight reel defense, but were blinded by a single 100 RBI year with 60 RBI stats. MLB teams see better than fans-BP's a trash mouthy guy that is playing toward a very Orlando Hudson type stat line already, and his contract ends when he's about 36.

I don't want to defend the Reds, but if you took a fan poll when Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Bailey ( or even Arroyo or Harang) at the times they were signed, you would see overwhelming support for the signings. Fans SAY they want their team to show loyalty, but they really just want to win...and too much loyalty in baseball makes you old, overpaid and underperforming pretty quick.

It's catch-22- if Votto and Bruce play and play well, the Reds won't want to get rod of them, and neither will fans, because they would be winning. IMO, the real barometer is the farm- is a better guy ready at the time your vet is having his last good year ? It's rare...but teams that can do THAT a few times in a decade, become the Cardinals. Pujols, Carpenter, LaRussa, Duncan, Freese, Beltran adios...Holiday is getting old, but in comes all those young arms, Carpenter, Adams, a few young OF, and they kept Molina. Smart.

I'm glad the Reds kept Mesoraco instead of Grandal when it wasn't a no brainer. I'm glad they kept Frazier and gave up on Francisco. I'm sorry they held onto Dusty so long, and didnt look farther than the bullpen for his replacement....But it kept Billy Hamilton from leading the minor leagues in SB AGAIN. I'm glad for Pena, and regret Ludwick. I'm sorry they traded Broxton and kept Chapman in the bullpen. Hard decisions are only appreciated when they work out.

Careful what you ask for, sometimes you get it. Jocketty's contract is up. He could have done better...but no one did for the previous decade before him...at least not in Cincinnati.

 

[redsfan03]

Well, the Reds traded Stubbs for Choo. Imo, that worked out in the Reds' favor, although Stubbs has had a resurgence with the Rockies. But the point about selling high is well taken. You look at the Reds' recent history of doling out big long term contracts and you have to wonder why they keep doing it. Griffey Jr, Dunn, Bruce, Votto, Phillips, Bailey, etc. Might be early on Bailey, but I would venture to guess he'll never put up a season worth $100 mil. I understand that you need to generate some excitement to keep the fannies in the seats, but people don't really show up to Reds games even when they're winning to be honest. Now the farm is beyond dry. We're headed for some rough years, Reds fans...

 

[JohnU]

I think Stubbs, had he stayed in Cincy, would be among our most productive hitters. He's just gotten smarter as he got older. Playing in Denver helps, but it's not the whole answer.

I have taken the view that pitching pitching pitching is what wins -- but lately, I am not sure that this team is taking advantage of its assets. What we want is Dunn without the strikeouts. What we get is the strikeouts with the Dunn. Our assets are short fences. We need home runs and balls bouncing off the fence. Hitters. Doubles, hard-hit balls. Baserunners.

As that makes sense, this team is bipolar. They want to outhit people without any hitters, blast home runs into the cheap seats without a clue about how to hit a 2-1 pitch. They expect Hamilton to steal runs, don't teach him to bunt or how to read a pitcher. He's learning -- no thanks to the front office that left DeShields in Pensacola.

GABP should be worth 5 runs a game, not a shutout every 5 games.

That said, it's time to swap some pitching and get some clubs back in Redland Field. Having Cueto doesn't help when you lose 1-0. Having Chuck Stobbs is enough if you win 10-9.

Once, I would have said, no deal to trading a rotation guy. Watching this team and how it plays, I am now of the belief that ... screw it ... bring in some bashers and let the road games take care of the pitching. We need somebody to get us to the 5th inning and bring on a kick-ass bullpen.

Ah ... yeah, we do need a bullpen with that.

And a third-base coach. I see Price is defending Smith's aggressive (stupid) coaching, since he has no choice. Price is a buffoon if he thinks "making things happen" is the same as playing fundamentally sound baseball for 9 innings.

 

[JohnU]

I think it's fair to remind everyone that Corcino and Holmberg were not really on the Brewers' radar. They didn't have much of a scouting report.

It's also the Brewers, who seem as clueless as ever about the end of the season. Roenicke can get the balls out of the box but he can't make them balance on the players' noses. In short, he's a vastly overrated manager.

Looks like the PEDs that Braun used were more valuable to him than we realized. He's a right-handed Jay Bruce now.

Kris Negron has made this team. He will probably be DFA because he will be replaced by some other 33-year-old Latin speaking utility infielder.

I think Frazier and Mesoraco finally realized that they can't drive in 8 runs apiece. I thought it was funny that Mesoraco was thrown out on the fly ball last night. I never saw a runner get tricked by one of the worst throws I've ever seen. A rainbow that went halfway down the 3rd base line. Another reason Milwaukee sucks. Except for a highlight reel play by Fuckweed Gomez off and on, these guys play defense like the Fifth Street Dragons.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Drew Stubbs stats look pretty good until you look at his splits. His slash line is .352/.377/.613 at Coors Field and a dismal .210/.283/.317 on the road. Stubbs is indicative of the Rockies as a whole, they lead the MLB in runs scored at home and are dead last on the road. That's why the Rockies are 35 games under .500 on the road.

 

[JohnU]

I wasn't aware that Stubbie's numbers were that disparate outside of Coors.

All the same, hitting in general is weaker now across the board and it's amplified by players who were at best league-average to start with. Poor fundamentals takes care of the rest of it and a third-base coach who is a total moron seals the deal.

It has become an ongoing joke as to which of our bullpen stooges will blow it today. I guess Pedro V. was the right guy at the right time last night.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Bullpens can't be counted on long- half the closers aren't closing at the end of any given year, and by definition, the rest are guys not good enough to start or close.

I'm more worried about our position players that seem clueless to AAA level pitching. Our offense makes every pitcher look like a Cy Young candidate.

 

[JohnU]

I agree that every so often, that happens. Brewers made Holmberg and Corcino look like Hall of famers ... so it does happen. But with the Reds, it's almost automatic.
And the guys who come up from AAA to pitch at the top level are usually no better than Villarreal.
If this had not been happening regularly for the last 3 years, I'd say ... oh well ... sometimes there is a Steve Nebraska.
Seems like we end up with a lot of really bad pitchers and really clueless hitters.

Here's Steve Nebraska, who threw 81 pitches in the World Series, all for unhittable strikes. Plus, he hit 4 home runs in the game.