Crank 'er up, boys!

[JohnU]

I caveat that RBI, while a team stat and dependent on several variables, also is not the demon stat that the metrics hall monitors make it. You do have to make contact to get an RBI usually.
I rank the RBI fairly low for the upper half of the order with increasing value toward the bottom.
OBP and churn are important throughout, but OBP is really less important to me in the 7-9 spots. I would like to see fly balls and 23-hoppers up the middle from the bottom third. So long as the sac bunt isn't the most important weapon of the trip through the order.

I can't say if Phillips is declining. All players decline and there aren't very many true quality 2B out there who are under 32. So for what it's worth, most 2B are in that age group. Replacing him with a 23-year old is possible, not likely going to be productive either on the field or in the box.

I am more tolerant of a kid at SS provided the tools between the ears are sharp.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Middle infielders and catchers almost never have career years after age 32. If PED's are truly declining, it will become more rare.

I'd love to see a big year from BP, but is bet he never has 100 RBI again, regardless of his lineup spot. He's a .260 hitter that doesn't walk. He doesn't have good steal speed anymore, and he's hit exactly 18 HR each of the last 4 years, regardless of his lineup role. Other than the fluke RBI last year, he's declined incrementally for 4 years. I dont expect him to fall apart this year, but the trend is impossible to ignore. He's more Neil Walker than Robinson Cano, for sure.

 

[chico ruiz]

not sure where you get your stats, or facts, from sometimes 1507. check joe morgan's numbers from his age 32 and 33 seasons. jeter's 30 - 35. ozzie smith, ryne Sandberg, barry larkin, nellie fox, roberto alomar, frank white, dave concepcion, alvin dark, davey lopes, alan trammel, johnny temple, craig biggio, willie randolph, bobby grich, lou whitaker, maury wills, larry bowa, dick groat, pepper martin, dixie walker, and bert campaneris were all killing it at 32 years of age and, in many cases, beyond. rod carew hit .388 when he was 32. rogers hornsby hit .387 at the same age. carney lansford .336. different time, and different era, but honus wagner was in his prime when he was 30-35. jeff kent had his best years 30-35. jackie robinson's best years were when he was 30-35 and the countless ***** league middle infielders who batted over .300 when they were 32+ years old. tony fernandez when he was 35, 36, and 37? ben zobrist is 32 and i think his best baseball is still ahead of him. all these players and i haven't even mentioned cal ripken who drove in 102 runs when he was 36. why did seattle sign the 31 year old cano to ten years? because they thought he would decline as rapidly as you seem to believe middle infielders of his age do? no, i think you severely overstate the 32+ year old middle infielders, and presuppose that the vast majority, have diminishing skills without any emperical evidence.

also, i love the way these type discussions ultimately ignore defense. it's half the game. you can't be declining too much if you win a gold glove at 32. in addition, phillips doesn't seem to have lost any bat speed. he's still reacts very quickly and goes first to third as good as any 2nd baseman in the league. the call for the withering skills and demise of brandon phillips is premature.

 

[JohnU]

I think the bash on Phillips from the "inside bloggers" was that his contract was an albatross. I tried to follow the logic on Redleg Nation, which inevitably turned me into a shameless optimist. That's like going from whiskey to iced tea in one weekend.

The logic, based on the premise first that Walt was a blundering idiot, said that replacing Choo with Billy Hamilton was a mistake because, they all said, Hamilton needs more seasoning in the minors. Never mind that there was no PROOF that he needed seasoning, but to make the logic hold up, they had to establish that as a fact first.

So looking around, the only guy we could get was Brett Gardner and since BP's contract was big and that he had pissed off Castellini over the contract comments ... one thing led to another and it was clear that Cincy could not sign a real left fielder because they had too much money tied up in BP's contract.

So he was going into decline.

Could be, he is. As for his offense, it could be better and really NEEDS to be better. The defense is not worth discussing and I truly weary of people who condemn him for hot-dogging. He's entertaining. The butt-tag, while probably overboard, is still something one guy out of a million can effect without practicing it.

Meanwhile, the detractors are still bitching about Walt.

We do need to upgrade eventually. It can't just be a "wave your magic wand" and we'll suddenly have a no-miss W.S. team.

I don't really think anybody we could get for a fair price can upgrade at 2B.

As for Hamilton, he's just fine.

Honestly, the fans who are beefing about Walt and the lack of upgrade haven't come up with a real scenario that works. The old why-don't-we-just-trade ... as if the other team is willing to take $50 million in exchange for "prospects" that might exist but haven't really been identified. "Just, oh, you know ... their top two or three prospects, whoever they are. Dunno who they have but they must have somebody, right? Two or three of them, maybe four."

Everybody else that's been suggested off the free agent wire is either no better than Ludwick or Heisey. But ya never know ... we could have USED Grady Sizemore.

And that is my rant for the day, I think.

 

[Redsfan1507]

BP, isn't Rogers Hornsby, or any of the HOF Chico compared him to. In fact, better metrics post 33-34 years old over the tens of thousands of MLB in the history of the game are like an occasional seashell among the miles of sand on the beach. Most players in MLB don't play past 35, and if they do, it's a reduced capacity, or they are an exception.

The ability to catch a ball is the last skill to leave, and often, the ability to get to ball is one of the first. BP may be an exception only because he's a legs first player, supporting my opinion that his bat has been a bonus, not the main course... another reason I don't want to rely on his bat as a 4 hitter going forward. There are deviations from the norm- Ozzie learned to hit better late, but there aren't as many improvements after 4 years of downhill at 32, as there are at 26. That's my point.

32 isn't 35, but it's not far away.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Age 32 seems to be the number associated with the end of an athletes prime. Sometimes experience can mask the decline in some phases of the game.

A few things I notice in BP is his K/PA has increased the past few years. It could be an indicator of loss of bat speed. Without testing the speed of his swing with a swing speed device, it's nearly impossible to tell by the naked eye. His reaction to the pitches he's seeing is all we as fans have to go by.

I think his base running speed is still pretty good, but agree with 1507 that he has loss the burst needed to steal bases. From a defensive perspective he's loss a little, but remains one of the best.

I don't put too much stock in awards such as GG, especially since RAF Palmiero won it in the late 90's while only playing less than 30 games in the field. More of a web gem award IMO.

 

[JohnU]

On this we agree: Phillips is not the hitter Dusty imagined or wanted him to be.
I would have recommended he modify his batting stance a little but that's not really likely to happen.
The only player I recall who ever did with any success was a guy you never heard of.

Wore No. 20.
Played outfield.
Frank somebody
Was part of a trade for a pitcher named Milt Pappas.

Gold Glove is a nice thing for sportscasters to talk about. It just means the managers like the way a guy plays his position.

As for BP's defense, we have another couple of years before it's a concern and by then, a lot of snow will fall.

Actually, a lot of snow will fall today here in downtown Porter County, Indiana.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I have less confidence in middle aged players since Bud Selig only has a year to retirement and PED's are still in the news regularly. After Bud is gone, they might actually test that pee. There will be a lot more Tommy Helms type stats at 2b then, and not so much Jeff Kent, IMO. I think BP is a fine infielder, and a pretty fair hitter for a middle infielder. I wish he was more Barry Larkin like though. He's way short there, IMO.

Truthfully, I think everyone in MLB had used or is using PED's. I do believe there is motivation to stop after the big payday though...and then they seem to all break down. Whatcha think Josh Hamilton or Phat Albert Pujols are gonna hit at 35-36 ? The DL.