Comparing Conference - 2023 P5 OOC

[foster4prez]

It's easy to say one conference is better than the other when they never leave their safe little enclave. But who actually steps up OOC and wins big games?

Below are (to the best of my googling) all the 2023 P5* OOC wins over .500 teams.

ACC
Florida State over LSU
Louisville over Notre Dame
Clemson over Notre Dame
Duke over Northwestern
Miami over Texas A&M

B1G
Ohio State over Notre Dame
Penn State over West Virginia
Rutgers over Virginia Tech
Iowa over Iowa State
Purdue over Virginia Tech

Big 12
Texas over Alabama

Pac12
Oregon over Texas Tech
Washington State over Wisconsin

SEC
Georgia over Georgia Tech
Missouri over Kansas State
Kentucky over Louisville
Ole Miss over Georgia Tech
Auburn over Cal
Mississippi State over Arizona


Let me know if I missed anything

*for the sake of this, ND qualifies as P5 since they are essentially treated as such.

 

[bamagrad75]

We beat LSU, too. Like it's hard?

 

[Tritonboat71]

We beat LSU, too. Like it's hard?

We beat Texas…..like it’s hard!!

 

[bamagrad75]

We beat Texas…..like it’s hard!!

Then you went and lost to Okie St who got destroyed by....Texas

 

[Wolverine830872]

SEC had some major wins OOC

 

[Gator]

It's easy to say one conference is better than the other when they never leave their safe little enclave. But who actually steps up OOC and wins big games?

Below are (to the best of my googling) all the 2023 P5* OOC wins over .500 teams.

ACC
Florida State over LSU
Louisville over Notre Dame
Clemson over Notre Dame
Duke over Northwestern
Miami over Texas A&M

B1G
Ohio State over Notre Dame
Penn State over West Virginia
Rutgers over Virginia Tech
Iowa over Iowa State
Purdue over Virginia Tech

Big 12
Texas over Alabama

Pac12
Oregon over Texas Tech
Washington State over Wisconsin

SEC
Georgia over Georgia Tech
Missouri over Kansas State
Kentucky over Louisville
Ole Miss over Georgia Tech
Auburn over Cal
Mississippi State over Arizona


Let me know if I missed anything

*for the sake of this, ND qualifies as P5 since they are essentially treated as such.

More impressive if you limit it to P5 teams OVER 0.500


ACC
Florida State over LSU
Louisville over Notre Dame
Clemson over Notre Dame
Duke over Northwestern
Miami over Texas A&M

B1G
Ohio State over Notre Dame
Penn State over West Virginia
Iowa over Iowa State

Big 12
Texas over Alabama

Pac12
Washington State over Wisconsin

SEC
Missouri over Kansas State
Kentucky over Louisville
Mississippi State over Arizona

 

[Gator]

It's easy to say one conference is better than the other when they never leave their safe little enclave. But who actually steps up OOC and wins big games?

You need to look at key LOSSES also.

Notre Dame Independent 9-3 (0.7500) Lost to Clemson ACC 8-4 (0.6667)
Wisconsin Big Ten 7-5 (0.5833) Lost to Washington State PAC 5-7(0.4167)
Louisville ACC 10-3 (0.7692) Lost to Kentucky SEC 7-5 (0.5833)
Arizona PAC 9-3 (0.7500) Lost to Mississippi State SEC 5-7 (0.4167)

 

[belcherboy]

SEC had some major wins OOC

They also play 4 OOC games compared to everyone else's 3 OOC games.

 

[Gator]

They also play 4 OOC games compared to everyone else's 3 OOC games.

But, but, but...I thought you said the SEC only plays cupcakes OOC so how can the SEC also have "major wins" in OOC games?

 

[belcherboy]

But, but, but...I thought you said the SEC only plays cupcakes OOC so how can the SEC also have "major wins" in OOC games?

When did I say that??

 

[trojanfight]

You need to look at key LOSSES also.

Notre Dame Independent 9-3 (0.7500) Lost to Clemson ACC 8-4 (0.6667)
Wisconsin Big Ten 7-5 (0.5833) Lost to Washington State PAC 5-7(0.4167)
Louisville ACC 10-3 (0.7692) Lost to Kentucky SEC 7-5 (0.5833)
Arizona PAC 9-3 (0.7500) Lost to Mississippi State SEC 5-7 (0.4167)

How is auburn losing to New Mexico st not a key loss?

You the king of sec bias

 

[Gator]

When did I say that??

Ok, not "only"

The problem with an SEC team’s criticism of others schedules, is that they only schedule 8 conference games. So they still often play 3 cupcake OOC games.

First, no offense but you seem to have a distorted vision of the CFB. You like many on here want to fixate on the FCS teams and NOT on the whole picture.
There are two very distinct parts to any CFB schedule - the IN-conference part and the OOC part. The IN-conference part only indicates how the conference teams compare to EACH OTHER but do not indicate how the teams compare to outside teams. The OOC part indicates how each teams compares to outside teams and NOT to in-conference rivals.

So when Michigan doesn't play any P5 OOC games in the past TWO years how can one determine where Michigan should be ranked NATIONALLY? When Washington beats Michigan State all one can say is that Washington is better than # 13 team in the B1G! That P5 game is only slightly more helpful in sorting out teams nationally than when Bama beats Tennessee-Chattanooga Wow, that's helpful! What is helpful is when Bama plays Texas or when LSU plays FSU.

Secondly, the B1G went to 9 conference games and 3 OOC games starting in 2017 while the SEC stayed with 8 conference games and 4 OOC.

Let's start with the OOC games. The SEC plays 4 OOC vs 3 for the B1G so the SEC "should" play 4/3 times as many "good" teams as the B1G plays From 2017 through 2022 the B1G played 19 OOC AP ranked teams (in 210 OOC games!). So, the SEC "should" play 4/3 x 19 = 25.33 ranked OOC teams. The SEC played 30 (in 279 games!!) That's an "extra" 5 ranked teams for the SEC.

Conversely, in IN-conference games the SEC "should" play fewer ranked teams than the B1G. It should be 8/9 but Covid screwed that up. The SEC played more than the normal number of IC games while the B1G played fewer. From 2017 through 2022 the B1G played 245 IN-conference AP ranked teams in 740 games. The SEC played 708 in conference games. So the SEC "should" have played 708/740 x 245 = 234.4 ranked teams IN-conference. The SEC played 266 ranked or 32 "extra" IN-conference ranked opponents.

These combined would indicate that the "average" SEC IC schedule is tougher than the "average" B1G IC schedule and the SEC OOC schedule help sort teams nationally MORE than the B1G OOC schedule and therefore more impressive.

 

[DHoey]

LSU 9-3
Texas AtM 7-5
Auburn 6-6

Anyone care to guess how many teams with winning records those 3 beat this year? Combined?

 

[belcherboy]

Ok, not "only"


First, no offense but you seem to have a distorted vision of the CFB. You like many on here want to fixate on the FCS teams and NOT on the whole picture.
There are two very distinct parts to any CFB schedule - the IN-conference part and the OOC part. The IN-conference part only indicates how the conference teams compare to EACH OTHER but do not indicate how the teams compare to outside teams. The OOC part indicates how each teams compares to outside teams and NOT to in-conference rivals.

So when Michigan doesn't play any P5 OOC games in the past TWO years how can one determine where Michigan should be ranked NATIONALLY? When Washington beats Michigan State all one can say is that Washington is better than # 13 team in the B1G! That P5 game is only slightly more helpful in sorting out teams nationally than when Bama beats Tennessee-Chattanooga Wow, that's helpful! What is helpful is when Bama plays Texas or when LSU plays FSU.

Secondly, the B1G went to 9 conference games and 3 OOC games starting in 2017 while the SEC stayed with 8 conference games and 4 OOC.

Let's start with the OOC games. The SEC plays 4 OOC vs 3 for the B1G so the SEC "should" play 4/3 times as many "good" teams as the B1G plays From 2017 through 2022 the B1G played 19 OOC AP ranked teams (in 210 OOC games!). So, the SEC "should" play 4/3 x 19 = 25.33 ranked OOC teams. The SEC played 30 (in 279 games!!) That's an "extra" 5 ranked teams for the SEC.

Conversely, in IN-conference games the SEC "should" play fewer ranked teams than the B1G. It should be 8/9 but Covid screwed that up. The SEC played more than the normal number of IC games while the B1G played fewer. From 2017 through 2022 the B1G played 245 IN-conference AP ranked teams in 740 games. The SEC played 708 in conference games. So the SEC "should" have played 708/740 x 245 = 234.4 ranked teams IN-conference. The SEC played 266 ranked or 32 "extra" IN-conference ranked opponents.

These combined would indicate that the "average" SEC IC schedule is tougher than the "average" B1G IC schedule and the SEC OOC schedule help sort teams nationally MORE than the B1G OOC schedule and therefore more impressive.

The problem is that Michigan likes to make money, just like the SEC. Those 3 OOC games are HUGE money generators for the school, as they are most often home games. When they schedule big home and home games like Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc., they lose a home game one of those years. With the SEC only playing 8 conference games, that free's up an extra OOC game, with which they can still schedule 3 easy OOC games, and have one P5 OOC game on their schedule. So in reality, when Michigan plays Texas and Oklahoma, they will play more P5 games than many teams in the SEC.

The SEC plays 8 conference games so they can play still have their 3 cupcake games. The B1G teams most often play the same amount of P5 games on their schedule than the SEC. (there are exceptions of course) That's why I don't consider it much of a criticism coming from the SEC. The SEC is just playing a shell game with their criticisms of the schedules of other teams.

 

[Gator]

The problem is that Michigan likes to make money, just like the SEC. Those 3 OOC games are HUGE money generators for the school, as they are most often home games. When they schedule big home and home games like Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc., they lose a home game one of those years. With the SEC only playing 8 conference games, that free's up an extra OOC game, with which they can still schedule 3 easy OOC games, and have one P5 OOC game on their schedule. So in reality, when Michigan plays Texas and Oklahoma, they will play more P5 games than many teams in the SEC.

Yes, everyone wants to make money and teams that play FEWER In-conference games can make more money so why are you pushing 9 conference games!

I would like to point out that Oklahoma and Texas will be SEC teams and SEC teams will play them MORE often that Michigan will!

The SEC plays 8 conference games so they can play still have their 3 cupcake games. The B1G teams most often play the same amount of P5 games on their schedule than the SEC. (there are exceptions of course) That's why I don't consider it much of a criticism coming from the SEC. The SEC is just playing a shell game with their criticisms of the schedules of other teams.

You keep calling them "cupcakes" when referring to SEC games, why? Do you think SEC teams play "easier" schedules than Michigan? You are a fool if you do!

Since 1990 (that's 33 seasons) Michigan is #2 in the B1G in the number of ranked teams played in the regular season (behind MSU). Alabama is #8 (tied with our MSU) in the SEC over that span. How do Alabama and Michigan rank nationally? Well, nationally Michigan is #18 (tied with Texas A&M) while Alabama is still tied with Miss St. at #8!!!

Here are the top 25 teams in the number of ranked opponents played in the regular season. There are 65 P5 teams!
#1 Florida...143
#2 Auburn...140
#3 Arkansas...133
#4 Louisiana State...132
#5 Tennessee...131
#6 South Carolina...127
#7 Vanderbilt...126
#8 Alabama...122
#8 Mississippi State...122
#10 Colorado...121
#10 Michigan State...121
#12 Georgia...120
#13 Florida State...118
#14 Kentucky...117
#14 Notre Dame...117
#14 Iowa State...117
#17 Oklahoma...115
#18 Michigan...114
#18 Texas A&M...114
#20 Stanford...113
#21 UCLA...112
#21 Arizona...112
#21 Mississippi...112
#21 Southern California...112
#25 Missouri...111
That's 14 out of 14 SEC teams in the top 25! That's TWO Big Ten teams in the top 25!

Other notables...Washington #38, Texas #39, OSU #42, Clemson #49, Iowa #53, Oregon #61,

FUN STAT: From 1990 to 2022 Ohio State has played 14 Top 5 teams in 386 regular season games.
Over the same time span UF has played 13 #1 teams overall and 15 Top 5 teams just in OOC!!!

So who's playing "cupcakes"?? When you catch up then you can throw stones!!!

 

[belcherboy]

So who's playing "cupcakes"??

Every top 25 program plays cupcakes. The SEC just carved out more OOC games to make more room for them than other conferences.

 

[DHoey]

Yes, everyone wants to make money and teams that play FEWER In-conference games can make more money so why are you pushing 9 conference games!

I would like to point out that Oklahoma and Texas will be SEC teams and SEC teams will play them MORE often that Michigan will!

You keep calling them "cupcakes" when referring to SEC games, why? Do you think SEC teams play "easier" schedules than Michigan? You are a fool if you do!

Since 1990 (that's 33 seasons) Michigan is #2 in the B1G in the number of ranked teams played in the regular season (behind MSU). Alabama is #8 (tied with our MSU) in the SEC over that span. How do Alabama and Michigan rank nationally? Well, nationally Michigan is #18 (tied with Texas A&M) while Alabama is still tied with Miss St. at #8!!!

Here are the top 25 teams in the number of ranked opponents played in the regular season. There are 65 P5 teams!
#1 Florida...143
#2 Auburn...140
#3 Arkansas...133
#4 Louisiana State...132
#5 Tennessee...131
#6 South Carolina...127
#7 Vanderbilt...126
#8 Alabama...122
#8 Mississippi State...122
#10 Colorado...121
#10 Michigan State...121
#12 Georgia...120
#13 Florida State...118
#14 Kentucky...117
#14 Notre Dame...117
#14 Iowa State...117
#17 Oklahoma...115
#18 Michigan...114
#18 Texas A&M...114
#20 Stanford...113
#21 UCLA...112
#21 Arizona...112
#21 Mississippi...112
#21 Southern California...112
#25 Missouri...111
That's 14 out of 14 SEC teams in the top 25! That's TWO Big Ten teams in the top 25!

Other notables...Washington #38, Texas #39, OSU #42, Clemson #49, Iowa #53, Oregon #61,

FUN STAT: From 1990 to 2022 Ohio State has played 14 Top 5 teams in 386 regular season games.
Over the same time span UF has played 13 #1 teams overall and 15 Top 5 teams just in OOC!!!

So who's playing "cupcakes"?? When you catch up then you can throw stones!!!

So in 33 seasons, the top 10 play on average 4 top 25 teams a season. Are you implying Florida playing 4 top 25 teams a year means they don’t play cupcakes?

 

[Gator]

So in 33 seasons, the top 10 play on average 4 top 25 teams a season. Are you implying Florida playing 4 top 25 teams a year means they don’t play cupcakes?

You seem to have a reading deficiency! In the PAC you play 9 IN-conference games and 3 OOC. That's 3/4 of your schedule IN-conference. In the SEC we play 8 IN-conference games and 4 OOC. That 2/3 of our schedule is OOC. WHY do you folks want to only focus on the smaller fraction and NOT on the entire schedule? I'll answer that one, because you can't compete with the IN-conference parts!

Look lots of teams play FCS teams. Some teams also play good teams. Some even play BOTH!!

Maybe this will show you what it's like to play in the SEC vs the PAC.

Since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 273 FCS teams. Now, 273/14 teams = 19.5 FCS teams/ SEC team.
The PAC has played 149 FCS teams. So, 149/12 teams = 12.42 FCS teams/ PAC team.

So, the SEC has played 7.08 MORE FCS teams/conference team than PAC.

In addition, since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 498 Top 5 ranked teams. Now, 498/14 teams = 35.57 Top 5 ranked teams /SEC team.
The PAC has played 285 Top 5 ranked teams. So, 285/12 teams = 23.75 Top 5 ranked teams /PAC team.

So, the SEC has played 11.82 MORE Top 5 ranked teams/conference team than PAC. (The SEC has played 22.67 MORE Top 25 teams/ conference team than the PAC.)

Now what would you rather watch your team play A) a Top 5 team & an FCS team or B) two mediocre P5 teams? Clearly your choice is B!!!

 

[Gator]

Every top 25 program plays cupcakes. The SEC just carved out more OOC games to make more room for them than other conferences.

You just won't give up will Fred?

Look, lots of teams play FCS teams. Some teams also play good teams. Some even play BOTH!!

I'll try this approach out on you and maybe it will show you what it's like to play in the SEC vs the B1G.

Since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 273 FCS teams. Now, 273/14 teams = 19.5 FCS teams/ SEC team.
The B1G has played 180 FCS teams. So, 180/42 teams = 12.86 FCS teams/ B1G team.

So, the SEC has played 6.64 MORE FCS teams/conference team than B1G.

In addition, since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 498 Top 5 ranked teams. Now, 498/14 teams = 35.57 Top 5 ranked teams /SEC team.
The B1G has played 304 Top 5 ranked teams. So, 304/14 teams = 21.71 Top 5 ranked teams /B1G team.

So, the SEC has played 13.86 MORE Top 5 ranked teams/conference team than B1G.
(The SEC has played 18.36 MORE Top 25 teams/ conference team than the B1G.)

Now what would you rather watch your team play A) a Top 5 team & an FCS team or B) two mediocre P5 teams? Clearly your choice is B !!!

 

[trojanfight]

You just won't give up will Fred?

Look, lots of teams play FCS teams. Some teams also play good teams. Some even play BOTH!!

I'll try this approach out on you and maybe it will show you what it's like to play in the SEC vs the B1G.

Since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 273 FCS teams. Now, 273/14 teams = 19.5 FCS teams/ SEC team.
The B1G has played 180 FCS teams. So, 180/42 teams = 12.86 FCS teams/ B1G team.

So, the SEC has played 6.64 MORE FCS teams/conference team than B1G.

In addition, since 1990 in the regular season...
The SEC has played 498 Top 5 ranked teams. Now, 498/14 teams = 35.57 Top 5 ranked teams /SEC team.
The B1G has played 304 Top 5 ranked teams. So, 304/14 teams = 21.71 Top 5 ranked teams /B1G team.

So, the SEC has played 13.86 MORE Top 5 ranked teams/conference team than B1G.
(The SEC has played 18.36 MORE Top 25 teams/ conference team than the B1G.)

Now what would you rather watch your team play A) a Top 5 team & an FCS team or B) two mediocre P5 teams? Clearly your choice is B !!!

this coming from the same guy that thinks playing mcneese st is the same as playing new mexico st. auburn would like a word.