Game Thread: Commanders vs. Giants Game 1 2023

[Breed]

@

MSN

2. Washington Commanders​

The Washington Commanders have overcome a permeable defense and an inconsistent young quarterback to emerge as legitimate wild card contenders early in the season. Ron Rivera's squad is 3-3, and while the top of the division is unattainable due to Philadelphia and Dallas, we saw the NFC East steal three postseason slots last year.


Eric Bieniemy is a highly-touted offensive coordinator who has the Commanders showing serious upside despite Sam Howell's youth and a spotty collection of receivers. There is serious talent on the pass-catching front — Terry McLaurin has flashed WR1 upside and Curtis Samuel is perennially solid — but the Commanders rank in the NFL's bottom third in receiving yards. McLaurin has taken a step back compared to last season and the Commanders have 214 drops as a team across six games.

Still, Howell can sling it up field and the Commanders feel like a team on the precipice of genuinely good offense. Michael Thomas would bolster the WR room in a big way, taking pressure off of McLaurin and Samuel while giving Howell a 6-foot-3 end zone and deep-ball target.

Thomas has been a paragon of consistency for the majority of his career. It would take time to adjust to a new system, but Bieniemy is historically wideout-friendly. Howell's inconsistency is a hindrance, but he's also a talented young QB who would benefit from a route-runner and pass-catcher with Thomas' cachet. The better the weapons, the better the QB. Thomas could cement the Commanders as a genuine postseason aspirant.

That 214 isn't drops its passes attempted.

STATS Hosted Solution | Team Leaders - Passes Dropped - NFL - Football

hosted.stats.com

 

[skinsdad62]

Again relying soley PFF and next gen stats is foolish and cherry picking data because they are subjective. How many of those so called “ walk in “ sacks were caused by him or by the fact he had pressure all day making him antsy ? How many were caused by him climbing the pocket as taught ? Are we really going to bitch out a guy trying to extend a play ? How many great plays did he make by extending plays ? Howell stands in there and is willing to take a hit to make a play . There are far worse traits to have then that .

the reason we are having this discussion is that some posters again overhyped mediocre FA signings and player evaluation made by this staff . I don’t think one out of 3 sacks being placed on a young qb is out of line . Our o/line is composed of veteran players and they need to do more in the run game which they aren’t doing well in and in the pass game with a young qb

 

[duke1861]

Again relying soley PFF and next gen stats is foolish and cherry picking data because they are subjective. How many of those so called “ walk in “ sacks were caused by him or by the fact he had pressure all day making him antsy ? How many were caused by him climbing the pocket as taught ? Are we really going to bitch out a guy trying to extend a play ? How many great plays did he make by extending plays ? Howell stands in there and is willing to take a hit to make a play . There are far worse traits to have then that .

the reason we are having this discussion is that some posters again overhyped mediocre FA signings and player evaluation made by this staff . I don’t think one out of 3 sacks being placed on a young qb is out of line . Our o/line is composed of veteran players and they need to do more in the run game which they aren’t doing well in and in the pass game with a young qb

Bingo...

 

[deanpet21]

Dont disagree. But my question is how does Howell compare to other first year QBs in holding the ball too long? Is he really that much worse than his peers? And is it reasonable to expect that this number improves with experience? These are the questions we need to be asking to gain insight into Sam’s ability to overcome this weakness.
let me ask you this. If Brock Purdy were behind this Oline and Sam was in SF, would we be talking about Brock’s inability to avoid sacks?

Yes, i agree Howell is going to have growing pains. Holding the ball too long and running into sacks. Of course, it will improve with experience. gk is saying it's all on the oline, the sack number total. I disagree with that.

 

[Breed]

This is a fantasy football site which I'm normally not into, but for the purposes of this post. I find it to be useful.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

PCT TIME - measures the time from the snap of the ball to the time a QB releases the ball OR is pressured.

Being a FF site it include numerous QBs. Some of whom haven't played a down and others who've only played in 1 game, Aaron Rodgers. Click on the PCT TIME column until the QBs at the top of that column are at 0.0 and go down the list.

Of the QBs who've played the entire season thus far. Trevor Lawerence and Joe Burrow have played in all 6 games and both have a PCT TIME of 2 seconds.

Tua 6 games and Tyrod Taylor 5 games clock in at 2.1 seconds

Desmond Ridder and Mac Jones each have played 6 games and clock in at 2.2 seconds

Josh Allen, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott have all played 6 games and Daniel Jones 5 games. All clock in at 2.3 seconds

Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar Jones, CJ Stroud and Carr have all played 6 games. Geno Smith, Baker and Gardner haved all playued 5 games. They clock in at 2.4 seconds.

Howell's time is listed at 2.5 seconds.

That's 16 QBs who have played at least 5 games that have a from snap to ball release or pressured time faster than Howell.

Now if this site is accurate. What does that mean? Some likely will consider that below average, others might see it as average. And still others such as myself don't care.. and think Howell can improve, but he's doing OK at present and when considering the amount of sacks he's taken. Its the OL that most needs to improve.

 

[duke1861]

This is a fantasy football site which I'm normally not into, but for the purposes of this post. I find it to be useful.

2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros

View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.

www.fantasypros.com

PCT TIME - measures the time from the snap of the ball to the time a QB releases the ball OR is pressured.

Being a FF site it include numerous QBs. Some of whom haven't played a down and others who've only played in 1 game, Aaron Rodgers. Click on the PCT TIME column until the QBs at the top of that column are at 0.0 and go down the list.

Of the QBs who've played the entire season thus far. Trevor Lawerence and Joe Burrow have played in all 6 games and both have a PCT TIME of 2 seconds.

Tua 6 games and Tyrod Taylor 5 games clock in at 2.1 seconds

Desmond Ridder and Mac Jones each have played 6 games and clock in at 2.2 seconds

Josh Allen, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott have all played 6 games and Daniel Jones 5 games. All clock in at 2.3 seconds

Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar Jones, CJ Stroud and Carr have all played 6 games. Geno Smith, Baker and Gardner haved all playued 5 games. They clock in at 2.4 seconds.

Howell's time is listed at 2.5 seconds.

That's 16 QBs who have played at least 5 games that have a from snap to ball release or pressured time faster than Howell.

Now if this site is accurate. What does that mean? Some likely will consider that below average, others might see it as average. And still others such as myself don't care.. and think Howell can improve, but he's doing OK at present and when considering the amount of sacks he's taken. Its the OL that most needs to improve.

Breed rests his case your honor.

 

[deanpet21]

Again relying soley PFF and next gen stats is foolish and cherry picking data because they are subjective. How many of those so called “ walk in “ sacks were caused by him or by the fact he had pressure all day making him antsy ? How many were caused by him climbing the pocket as taught ? Are we really going to bitch out a guy trying to extend a play ? How many great plays did he make by extending plays ? Howell stands in there and is willing to take a hit to make a play . There are far worse traits to have then that .

the reason we are having this discussion is that some posters again overhyped mediocre FA signings and player evaluation made by this staff . I don’t think one out of 3 sacks being placed on a young qb is out of line . Our o/line is composed of veteran players and they need to do more in the run game which they aren’t doing well in and in the pass game with a young qb

the reason for this discussion is some posters on here believe the high sack total is all on the oline. Some disagree.

 

[duke1861]

the reason for this discussion is some posters on here believe the high sack total is all on the oline. Some disagree.

Disagree Dean.
It boils down to you defending Rivera and his strategy.

You do it and I don't think you know you do it. You asked me how a fan can support the commanders and not support Rivera. That sums up your approach.

Rivera isn't the commanders Dean. I hope you show a fraction of the loyalty you have shown to Rivera to the new front office.

You rubber stamped
The signing of Wylie
The drafting of Forbes
The drafting of Martin
The trade for Wentz
The hiring of Scott Turner

You do it because you blindly follow Rivera and always have. You know the OLine is one of the worst in the league but you won't admit it because it is a reflection of rivera. You have criticized me for not being loyal to the coaches. Anyone has the right to criticize Rivera....you just don't like it because you want him here for years to come. You are now trying to deflect sacks away from thr OLine because it is an admission of guilt that riveras 2023 offseason strategy was heavily flawed.

You can be loyal to Rivera all you want. You and I have argued about this from the time he was hired. I told you it was a mistake. You simply cannot bring yourself to question what he has done and try to rally support for him on the board.

I truly look forward to productive discussions when he is gone with you.

 

[deanpet21]

Disagree Dean.
It boils down to you defending Rivera and his strategy.

You do it and I don't think you know you do it. You asked me how a fan can support the commanders and not support Rivera. That sums up your approach.

Rivera isn't the commanders Dean. I hope you show a fraction of the loyalty you have shown to Rivera to the new front office.

You rubber stamped
The signing of Wylie
The drafting of Forbes
The drafting of Martin
The trade for Wentz
The hiring of Scott Turner

You do it because you blindly follow Rivera and always have. You know the OLine is one of the worst in the league but you won't admit it because it is a reflection of rivera. You have criticized me for not being loyal to the coaches. Anyone has the right to criticize Rivera....you just don't like it because you want him here for years to come. You are now trying to deflect sacks away from thr OLine because it is an admission of guilt that riveras 2023 offseason strategy was heavily flawed.

You can be loyal to Rivera all you want. You and I have argued about this from the time he was hired. I told you it was a mistake. You simply cannot bring yourself to question what he has done and try to rally support for him on the board.

I truly look forward to productive discussions when he is gone with you.

wow. Where did i say the oline was good? We are talking about the sack total. I replied to Rowdy post about the oline which you agreed. Then you write all this. I agreed RR will be fired if he losses. Not this again. Jeez.

 

[duke1861]

wow. Where did i say the oline was good? We are talking about the sack total. I replied to Rowdy post about the oline which you agreed. Then you write all this. I agreed RR will be fired if he losses. Not this again. Jeez.

Again, I look forward to talking about the team when Rivera is gone.
You can bring good insight to the board and a positive spin to the team.

You can research and can not focus on the negatives during losses.

 

[j_y19]

Dont disagree. But my question is how does Howell compare to other first year QBs in holding the ball too long? Is he really that much worse than his peers? And is it reasonable to expect that this number improves with experience? These are the questions we need to be asking to gain insight into Sam’s ability to overcome this weakness.

the reason for this discussion is some posters on here believe the high sack total is all on the oline. Some disagree.

No one has said that, Dean.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Looking more likely Taylor will QB…

 

[deanpet21]

No one has said that, Dean.

yes gk did post #59.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

 

[duke1861]

wow. Where did i say the oline was good? We are talking about the sack total. I replied to Rowdy post about the oline which you agreed. Then you write all this. I agreed RR will be fired if he losses. Not this again. Jeez.

And Rivera should be fired regardless if he wins and you know that. You even admitted that he suxs as a GM. Nothing he can do will erase the mediocrity he has shown on his career and in Washington.
A winning season doesn't mean crap dean. Pick a lane.

We have fired coaches for much less...like after 2 years of stupidity. Rivera is one of the worst coaches we have had yet you continue to protect him. Unbelievable.

 

[Rowdy]

Dont disagree. But my question is how does Howell compare to other first year QBs in holding the ball too long? Is he really that much worse than his peers? And is it reasonable to expect that this number improves with experience? These are the questions we need to be asking to gain insight into Sam’s ability to overcome this weakness.
let me ask you this. If Brock Purdy were behind this Oline and Sam was in SF, would we be talking about Brock’s inability to avoid sacks?

This is why he was a fifth round pick. Had the same problem in college

 

[Rowdy]

Again relying soley PFF and next gen stats is foolish and cherry picking data because they are subjective. How many of those so called “ walk in “ sacks were caused by him or by the fact he had pressure all day making him antsy ? How many were caused by him climbing the pocket as taught ? Are we really going to bitch out a guy trying to extend a play ? How many great plays did he make by extending plays ? Howell stands in there and is willing to take a hit to make a play . There are far worse traits to have then that .

the reason we are having this discussion is that some posters again overhyped mediocre FA signings and player evaluation made by this staff . I don’t think one out of 3 sacks being placed on a young qb is out of line . Our o/line is composed of veteran players and they need to do more in the run game which they aren’t doing well in and in the pass game with a young qb

20 of 34 isn’t 1 of 3. Like I said I really like Howell. He is a star in the making if he can cut down on the sacks

 

[Breed]

20 of 34 isn’t 1 of 3. Like I said I really like Howell. He is a star in the making if he can cut down on the sacks

You're saying Howell is responsible for 20 of the 34 sacks he's taken?

 

[Rowdy]

You're saying Howell is responsible for 20 of the 34 sacks he's taken?

That is what PFF said. I know they don’t always know the situation, but I’d just about guarantee they know more about it than us.

 

[Sportster 72]

Logan Paulsen likes Howell but says he is responsible for quite a few sacks. Not just because he holds the ball too long, he also turns into sacks and they are having a hard time calling the line protection as they should be. It's youth.