CJ

[guitarmy21b]

big IF, are you willing to gamble that Feliz can give you 6 or 7 innings consistently? and if he can't what's your fall-back plan?

Scooter, prospect, or trade. We'll be alright.

 

[scotsman1948]

In Ogando's "horrible" second half he put up a 4.48 ERA(compared to Colby's season ERA of 4.40) and out played him at the end of the season. If Nefty can match those season numbers(which I think he can, and exceed. I think Ogando improves next year too) then I'm happy.

if it happens i hope so too, but i do not want to see this team take a step back. you have to continue to improve to stay competitive or you will fall behind the teams you are competing with. LAA is going to do what it takes to overhaul the rangers and teams like Detroit, TB, Bost & NYY will be working to get better

 

[scotsman1948]

Scooter, prospect, or trade. We'll be alright.

yeah we will probably be able to hold off Oakland & Seattle

 

[Windingmywatch]

They still have to do something about that offense..................................

Pitching is always more important than hitting. (Reference: See TEX season results 1972-2010)

 

[scotsman1948]

we have the offense to be competitive but pitching is what wins games

 

[jta4437]

if it happens i hope so too, but i do not want to see this team take a step back. you have to continue to improve to stay competitive or you will fall behind the teams you are competing with. LAA is going to do what it takes to overhaul the rangers and teams like Detroit, TB, Bost & NYY will be working to get better

Sometimes teams take steps back, they just have to make sure the decisions they make are in the best interest of the teams LONG TERM growth, they've been doing a good job of that thus far,

I'll trust the guys in charge

 

[scotsman1948]

Sometimes teams take steps back, they just have to make sure the decisions they make are in the best interest of the teams LONG TERM growth, they've been doing a good job of that thus far,

I'll trust the guys in charge

of course you're right but i've been waiting for this since game 1 and want to stay up here in the rarefied air that we have enjoyed this last 2 years.

 

[Windingmywatch]

If it comes down to Feliz or Feldman ... I'd be far more confident in Scooter and his sinker logging 180 innings than Feliz duplicating Ogando's showing in 170 innings in his first year as a SP.

Feliz may convert to an SP ... but he'll need to spend until June minimum at AAA to be effective. Going out and throwing curves and other offspeed stuff in camp doesn't get you game ready to go 180 innings.

 

[scotsman1948]

If it comes down to Feliz or Feldman ... I'd be far more confident in Scooter and his sinker logging 180 innings than Feliz duplicating Ogando's showing in 170 innings in his first year as a SP.

Feliz may convert to an SP ... but he'll need to spend until June minimum at AAA to be effective. Going out and throwing curves and other offspeed stuff in camp doesn't get you game ready to go 180 innings.

or you move him to long-reliever where he gets 2-5 innings regularly to stretch him in preparation to moving him to SP

 

[guitarmy21b]

I just don't think them starting Feliz would be settling or taking a step back. I'd love to see them go out and acquire an ace or Darvish and hope they do but as time goes on and I continue to heal from the WS loss, I'm more fine with them not making any big moves. It's not like it's next year-or-bust for us(although I think we're still big contenders even without CJ). I think Dutch will develop into a #1, Ogando will improve and Harrison will continue to be a SOLID #3. Biggest issue for me is Colby. Love what he does in the playoffs but I think whether it's Buerhle, Oswalt, Darvish, or just keeping CJ and bringing in Nefty...any of those combinations to shove Colby out of the rotation, and we have a better staff next year than we do now.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

Checked out the Angels ESPN Board. They are confident of CJ coming to the Angels. Rangers need to get moving fast.

 

[Windingmywatch]

or you move him to long-reliever where he gets 2-5 innings regularly to stretch him in preparation to moving him to SP

Whoa ... now that would be a real kick in the butt! Guy's the AL ROY last year ... logs 72 saves in 2 full seasons ... and now you have him "stretching it out" as a long guy?

What do you mean the long guy will "gets 2-5 innings regularly"? God I hope not. Who was TEX long guy in 2011? Dave Bush? Brett Tomko? Scott Feldman?

The way a projective starters get regular work starting games ... putting in 6+ innings once a week is in the AAA rotation ... not sitting on a lawn chair and hopefully getting "2-5 innings" with no notice of when that will be ... and calling that regular work.

I don't think Feliz if he wants to be an SP would think much of your plan for him sitting out there in the BP and then getting to watch someone else to come in and close on those good nights. And look forward to those sloppy games where he gets to come in when the game is totally not on the line and pretend like it does in order to get his "regular" work.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Checked out the Angels ESPN Board. They are confident of CJ coming to the Angels. Rangers need to get moving fast.

Am sure CJ will just love being a #2 or #3.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I just don't think them starting Feliz would be settling or taking a step back. I'd love to see them go out and acquire an ace or Darvish and hope they do but as time goes on and I continue to heal from the WS loss, I'm more fine with them not making any big moves. It's not like it's next year-or-bust for us(although I think we're still big contenders even without CJ). I think Dutch will develop into a #1, Ogando will improve and Harrison will continue to be a SOLID #3. Biggest issue for me is Colby. Love what he does in the playoffs but I think whether it's Buerhle, Oswalt, Darvish, or just keeping CJ and bringing in Nefty...any of those combinations to shove Colby out of the rotation, and we have a better staff next year than we do now.

"A better staff next year than we do now" ???

Other than keeping CJ ... none of your other options improves TEX rotation with any assurance.

You must have missed Ginger's post in another thread:

Rangers pitchers ranking via ERA.

CJ #7 in AL
Harrison #15 in AL
Ogando #19 in AL
Holland #24 in AL
Lewis #33 in AL

And the accounting I added in that thread...

... all five TEX SPs were in the top 33 SPs ranked by ERA.

How did all the other teams do?

CHW ... 4 SPs ... (#20-Buehrle, #23-Humber, #31-Danks, #32-Floyd)
LAA ... 3 SPs ... (#2-Weaver, #11-Haren, #14-Santana)
TBR ... 3 SPs ... (#3-Shields, #8-Hellickson, #18 Price)
OAK ... 3 SPs ... (#10-Gonzalez, #13-McCarthy, #26-Cahill)
SEA ... 3 SPs ... (#16-Hernandez, #22-Pineda, #28-Vargas)
DET ... 2 SPs ... (#1-Verlander, #4-Fister)
NYY ... 2 SPs ... (#9-Sabathia, #21-Nova)
CLE ... 2 SPs ... (#12-Masterson, #27-Tomlin)
TOR ... 1 SP ... (#6-Romero)
BOS ... 1 SP ... (#17-Lester) ... I missed #5 Beckett in my original post so BOS had 2 SPs in the top33
MIN ... 1 SP ... (#29-Pavano)
BAL ... 1 SP ... (#30-Guthrie)

KCR's top SP was #36-Hochevar.

As I noted ... TEX entire rotation ... accounting for 157 of 162 GS ... ranked in the top 33 SPs by ERA. CHW was second with 4 of their SPs ranked in the top 33 although its top SP ranked behind three of TEX SPs. No other team had more than 3 SPs in the top 33.

Adding Buehrle ... AL's #20 ERA does not upgrade what TEX had in 2011. Sure Feliz might crack the top 33 to bump Lewis ... Darvish may not even get posted let alone make the rotation at all ... and Oswalt had he maintained his performance until he went out would have been ranked NL #28 ERA.

Adding Buehrle ... as TEX #4 ... or Oswalt as TEX #5 ... which is where they would fall ranking ERAs ... would not constitute the kind of improvement TEX needs at the TORP end of the rotation.

 

[guitarmy21b]

"A better staff next year than we do now" ???

Other than keeping CJ ... none of your other options improves TEX rotation with any assurance.

You must have missed Ginger's post in another thread:

Rangers pitchers ranking via ERA.

CJ #7 in AL
Harrison #15 in AL
Ogando #19 in AL
Holland #24 in AL
Lewis #33 in AL

And the accounting I added in that thread...

... all five TEX SPs were in the top 33 SPs ranked by ERA.

How did all the other teams do?

CHW ... 4 SPs ... (#20-Buehrle, #23-Humber, #31-Danks, #32-Floyd)
LAA ... 3 SPs ... (#2-Weaver, #11-Haren, #14-Santana)
TBR ... 3 SPs ... (#3-Shields, #8-Hellickson, #18 Price)
OAK ... 3 SPs ... (#10-Gonzalez, #13-McCarthy, #26-Cahill)
SEA ... 3 SPs ... (#16-Hernandez, #22-Pineda, #28-Vargas)
DET ... 2 SPs ... (#1-Verlander, #4-Fister)
NYY ... 2 SPs ... (#9-Sabathia, #21-Nova)
CLE ... 2 SPs ... (#12-Masterson, #27-Tomlin)
TOR ... 1 SP ... (#6-Romero)
BOS ... 1 SP ... (#17-Lester) ... I missed #5 Beckett in my original post so BOS had 2 SPs in the top33
MIN ... 1 SP ... (#29-Pavano)
BAL ... 1 SP ... (#30-Guthrie)

KCR's top SP was #36-Hochevar.

As I noted ... TEX entire rotation ... accounting for 157 of 162 GS ... ranked in the top 33 SPs by ERA. CHW was second with 4 of their SPs ranked in the top 33 although its top SP ranked behind three of TEX SPs. No other team had more than 3 SPs in the top 33.

Adding Buehrle ... AL's #20 ERA does not upgrade what TEX had in 2011. Sure Feliz might crack the top 33 to bump Lewis ... Darvish may not even get posted let alone make the rotation at all ... and Oswalt had he maintained his performance until he went out would have been ranked NL #28 ERA.

Adding Buehrle ... as TEX #4 ... or Oswalt as TEX #5 ... which is where they would fall ranking ERAs ... would not constitute the kind of improvement TEX needs at the TORP end of the rotation.

?? I'm confused...I'm talking about bringing in someone to improve over Colby and the guys I suggest had better ERA's(excluding Darvish since his numbers don't count) as shown by yourself, and you even said Feliz probably beats him. So how is my suggestion not an upgrade?

Holland
Ogando
Harrison
Nefty
CJ/Buehrle/Oswalt/Darvish

Any of those combinations to bump Lewis out makes us better than last year and I'm not sure how your post does anything except prove me right.

 

[Windingmywatch]

?? I'm confused...I'm talking about bringing in someone to improve over Colby and the guys I suggest had better ERA's(excluding Darvish since his numbers don't count) as shown by yourself, and you even said Feliz probably beats him. So how is my suggestion not an upgrade?

Holland
Ogando
Harrison
Nefty
CJ/Buehrle/Oswalt/Darvish

Any of those combinations to bump Lewis out makes us better than last year and I'm not sure how your post does anything except prove me right.

Why sign a big money FA to be your #4 or #5? That's a guy who in the post season may not even make the roster.

Lewis pitched the entire 2011 season with a hip injury. Assuming he's back healthy I'll take him over hiring Buerle or Oswalt to fill a bottom of the rotation spot. In any case ... if you feel that strongly that Colby has to go ... then it makes far more sense to use Feldman in his spot than either of the Buerle or Oswalt options to fill #4 and #5.

I have zero faith in Feliz to even make the rotation ... let alone be an upgrade. And Darvish is a total puff of smoke. (Ha ... almost spelled that S M O A K! ... speaking of smoke).

 

[guitarmy21b]

Why sign a big money FA to be your #4 or #5? That's a guy who in the post season may not even make the roster.

Lewis pitched the entire 2011 season with a hip injury. Assuming he's back healthy I'll take him over hiring Buerle or Oswalt to fill a bottom of the rotation spot. In any case ... if you feel that strongly that Colby has to go ... then it makes far more sense to use Feldman in his spot than either of the Buerle or Oswalt options to fill #4 and #5.

I have zero faith in Feliz to even make the rotation ... let alone be an upgrade. And Darvish is a total puff of smoke. (Ha ... almost spelled that S M O A K! ... speaking of smoke).

I think people have lost perspective on Colby because he pitched well in the playoffs. Before that almost everyone was calling for him to be kicked from the rotation. He's 32, had a 4.40 ERA last year, gave up over 30 homers, and lost velocity on his fastball. I think it's all downhill from here for him. I think next year you see his ERA move closer to his career average which is 4.99. I agree Feldman might make more sense than the FA's, I forgot about him. I'd like to see what Ramirez can do too at some point next year.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

Your right. With guys like Weavet and Santana around there is no way that CJ is the Angels Number 1 Pitcher. That also means to me there is no way the Angels give Wilson the money He and His Agent are asking for. Not for someone who will be maybe their Number 3 Starter. Of course of both Hollsnd and Harrison discover the Aces within themselves CJ won't be the Rangers #1 Pitcher for Long either. I expect the Price to drop as bargaining continues unless somebody is really insane.

 

[Al Falfa]

Relax fellas, it's only November 17th.

 

[AGZBASEBALL]

It is only November 17th. The way we are going now everybody will be burned out by Spring Training. But it just shows how things change when you have a Team that has won Back to Back Pennants and is Loaded with Great Talent in their Farm System. This never gets Old either.