Buffalo Bills WR

[TREFF]

I think you may have inferred things that I didn't intend.
If Kincaid leads this team in receptions, you don't think he'd be an elite fantasy option? kinda feel like that one's a slam dunk.
If any of the WRs get over 100 targets, they'll be sniffing top 12 fantasy WR numbers, cause one of those guys will be catching 8-10 TDs this year, so if the targets and red zone love go to the same guy, should be a lock for a top 18 WR season and could easily land in that WR6-12 range.

Guess I did.. yes Kincaid would be, for sure. But I just don't see 100 targets, more than 5-7 for any other wr's...unless...Coleman is more than a typical 2nd rd receiver would be eclectic. I'd he is 'special', sure. But the others, they're more or less proven to be not special, and I don't see Josh Allen elevating, good, to great.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Guess I did.. yes Kincaid would be, for sure. But I just don't see 100 targets, more than 5-7 for any other wr's...unless...Coleman is more than a typical 2nd rd receiver would be eclectic. I'd he is 'special', sure. But the others, they're more or less proven to be not special, and I don't see Josh Allen elevating, good, to great.

It'll be volume/TD dependent moreso than any of those guys being a special talent, just no clue which guys will be on the field getting looks. 240 targets last yr for Diggs and Davis. If Josh Allen isn't good enough to elevate any of the guys this year, then the Bills will probably be playing from behind more often, and he'll be passing even more.

Can't really use Allen's pre-Diggs/early career stats for future insights, it was well known that he was extremely raw coming into the league and would have to be developed. Didn't Daboll change all of his mechanics? Thought I recall that being a thing.

The Bills aren't just going to become a bad football team, they're going to move the ball and score points, and as of now, none of their WR's ADPs hurt you if you draft the one you like.

 

[broncosmitty]

It'll be volume/TD dependent moreso than any of those guys being a special talent, just no clue which guys will be on the field getting looks. 240 targets last yr for Diggs and Davis. If Josh Allen isn't good enough to elevate any of the guys this year, then the Bills will probably be playing from behind more often, and he'll be passing even more.

Can't really use Allen's pre-Diggs/early career stats for future insights, it was well known that he was extremely raw coming into the league and would have to be developed. Didn't Daboll change all of his mechanics? Thought I recall that being a thing.

The Bills aren't just going to become a bad football team, they're going to move the ball and score points, and as of now, none of their WR's ADPs hurt you if you draft the one you like.

In redraft, Coleman is a little higher than Id be comfortable with right now. Past the point of a pick burning you there though.


I’d be good with Samuel falling to me where he is. Prolly a fourth receiver, unless he’s a third with the plan of taking a few others.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

In redraft, Coleman is a little higher than Id be comfortable with right now. Past the point of a pick burning you there though.


I’d be good with Samuel falling to me where he is. Prolly a fourth receiver, unless he’s a third with the plan of taking a few others.

I took Shakir towards the end of the 12th round of a best ball draft, one pick after Samuel. That's a good spot for both that late. Someone took Shakir in the 7th rd in another BB draft, that's way too early unless you truly believe he's walking into most of Diggs targets

 

[wilwhite]

none with a 1K?? that sounds impossible in a 17 game season with an elite QB... unless you dont think he will be elite...

My range gives Allen 3800 to 4700 passing yards. Looks pretty elite to me.

 

[wilwhite]

It'll be volume/TD dependent moreso than any of those guys being a special talent, just no clue which guys will be on the field getting looks. 240 targets last yr for Diggs and Davis. If Josh Allen isn't good enough to elevate any of the guys this year, then the Bills will probably be playing from behind more often, and he'll be passing even more.

Can't really use Allen's pre-Diggs/early career stats for future insights, it was well known that he was extremely raw coming into the league and would have to be developed. Didn't Daboll change all of his mechanics? Thought I recall that being a thing.

The Bills aren't just going to become a bad football team, they're going to move the ball and score points, and as of now, none of their WR's ADPs hurt you if you draft the one you like.

The Chiefs just won two straight Super Bowls without a 1000-yd WR. Losing Treek didn't turn another WR into a 1000-yd guy.

And they probably won't have one this year either.

 

[broncosmitty]

I took Shakir towards the end of the 12th round of a best ball draft, one pick after Samuel. That's a good spot for both that late. Someone took Shakir in the 7th rd in another BB draft, that's way too early unless you truly believe he's walking into most of Diggs targets

Never have dealt with the animal that is best ball.

I like the idea of both at the turn in any format where you got Shakir.

1st and 12th, fun places to be. Especially with situations like this.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

The Chiefs just won two straight Super Bowls without a 1000-yd WR. Losing Treek didn't turn another WR into a 1000-yd guy.

And they probably won't have one this year either.

But they had the elitist of elite TEs and I just don't think Kincaid is going to hit those levels in year 2, but I do have a dynasty team that would love to see it.

Juju had 933yds and he only started in 14 games, pacing for 1,130 if he was the full-time guy.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

And I know the Bills have been desperate to emulate the Chiefs in recent years, but guys like Tyreek are unicorns and shouldn't be used as a standard or barometer for comparisons. There most likely will never be another one. Every team would love to be able to draft a late round return guy that morphs into a top end WR but they just don't exist

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Also forgot this, Bills lost their top 2 WRs and 240 targets, never happened like that in KC

 

[TREFF]

It'll be volume/TD dependent moreso than any of those guys being a special talent, just no clue which guys will be on the field getting looks. 240 targets last yr for Diggs and Davis. If Josh Allen isn't good enough to elevate any of the guys this year, then the Bills will probably be playing from behind more often, and he'll be passing even more.

Can't really use Allen's pre-Diggs/early career stats for future insights, it was well known that he was extremely raw coming into the league and would have to be developed. Didn't Daboll change all of his mechanics? Thought I recall that being a thing.

The Bills aren't just going to become a bad football team, they're going to move the ball and score points, and as of now, none of their WR's ADPs hurt you if you draft the one you like.

Oh fer sure, there is volume to be had. But right now, at this moment, there's no obvious choice as to who gets the Lions share of that volume..if anyone does. 130-150 targets split 3-4 ways doesn't a stud make.

DaBoll was OC all through Allen's first 3 seasons, he didn't fix him anymore than he fixed Danny Dimes in NY. Much like finally having a healthy Barkley resulted in an ultra efficient Danny Dimes under DaBoll, they (the Bills) finally found him (Allen) tools to work with ( Diggs), and he (DaBoll) designed the offense to get those tools the ball. If DaBoll had some magic fixer wand, where was it in '18 or '19?

I'm not saying the guy is going to regress to '19 levels or anything, but I do expect a down tick, especially in overall offensive efficiency. I'm just saying I don't buy Josh Allen being that level of great, as to where he can/will elevate mediocrity to greatness/elite status, or possibly even top 15-20 status.

I'm sure there will be a week or two where Shakir gets 5-6 for 130-150 and 2 scores, I'm sure there will be a week or where Samuel gets 10 catches for 100+, and I imagine Coleman probably had a couple too. But I definitely feel that most, if not all, of those performances are likely to happen in someone's fantasy bench or the wire. As there won't be any consistency to feel confident about starting any of them. Best ball? Sure go fer it. I just don't play best ball leagues, I just don't see the point, so my arguments aren't geared towards that environment

 

[Shanemansj13]

Want to monitor this.

WR: Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, Curtis Samuel, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Chase Claypool

How does this play out?

Keon Coleman becomes a star

 

[Shanemansj13]

Coleman is the higher ceiling, lower floor of the two, imo. Coleman isnt Gabe Davis but put into that role Coleman in the red zone and/or when things break down is a huge target that goes up and gets it. I think this will be a slam dunk if Coleman can get separation.

I'm looking at 10 yd split times and Keon Coleman is 1.54 while Gabe Davis is 1.55, Laquon Treadwell is 1.62 and Nkeal Harry is 1.62. Coleman also better Vert than Gabe Davis but worse long speed. I think Coleman's athletic profile is intriguing enough to roll the dice because of Josh Allen. Coleman might take a year, though.

If Coleman can get separation then he will be a star imo

 

[Clayton]

If Coleman can get separation then he will be a star imo

I agree although I do kinda see why the Chiefs, Niners and Panthers passed on him. Coleman could be the best receiver of the 4 but Im not totally sure he puts the same level of stress on a defense as guys who can blow by you.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

DaBoll was OC all through Allen's first 3 seasons, he didn't fix him anymore than he fixed Danny Dimes in NY. Much like finally having a healthy Barkley resulted in an ultra efficient Danny Dimes under DaBoll, they (the Bills) finally found him (Allen) tools to work with ( Diggs), and he (DaBoll) designed the offense to get those tools the ball. If DaBoll had some magic fixer wand, where was it in '18 or '19?

Just to confirm where you stand on this, Josh Allen transformed from a garbage QB to one of the top QBs in the league in a 3yr span because he got Diggs? So his OC didn't do anything to help him throw the ball, but a WR waved his magic wand and Allen's career took a 180 and he became an accurate thrower. I guess more QBs should play video games with Diggs if he can do that for their accuracy.

Cole Beasley was a fantasy relevant WR, isn't that the definition of elevating mediocre talent?
Next your gonna tell me Beasley is a better WR than Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman

 

[TREFF]

Just to confirm where you stand on this, Josh Allen transformed from a garbage QB to one of the top QBs in the league in a 3yr span because he got Diggs? So his OC didn't do anything to help him throw the ball, but a WR waved his magic wand and Allen's career took a 180 and he became an accurate thrower. I guess more QBs should play video games with Diggs if he can do that for their accuracy.

Cole Beasley was a fantasy relevant WR, isn't that the definition of elevating mediocre talent?
Next your gonna tell me Beasley is a better WR than Shakir, Samuel, and Coleman

Well he didn't elevate Beasley to greatness. Mediocrity is relevant. And Beasley was above mediocre...as a slot WR.. and yes, I would certainly place him about Shakir and Coleman at this very moment.. leaps and bound above. Samuel? Pretty even.

Never said Daboll did nothing.. he designed the offense, said as much.. but he certainly didn't "fix" anyone. Dimes sucks more in year 2 of Daboll than ever, Allen did fine without him.. we're about to see how fine he is without Diggs

 

[TKOSpikes]

I miss Daboll.
I hope Keon isn't a big Benjamin 2.0.

I can also see Josh picking up the legs a little more again...and Cook will be a bigger piece.

Beasley wasn't lost in Buffalo, and past his prime, but I thought they worked well together.
Josh made McKenzie relevant. And we'll find out if he made Gabe relevant (I don't think). He made Knox more than a streamer.

Life without Diggs will look a lot like the second half of last season... without the distraction of it.

 

[eaglesnut]

160 targets aren't just going to disappear, there will be at least 1 elite receiving option, easily could be 2, coming from the Bills this season. Impossible to figure out who they'll be right now, as Allen spread it out a ton behind Diggs the last few seasons. But the guy is an elite playmaker in the NFL and that's not going to change due to us fantasy nerds not knowing who his top targets are heading into the season.

Josh Allen last 4 seasons has averaged 4,385 pass yds, 34.25 pass tds, 617.5 rush yds, 9 rush tds.

Diggs didn't create that, he was just the beneficiary, and now someone else will be the beneficiary. At least with them bringing MVS on board they'll still have someone get open downfield and drop the ball, just like Diggs.

All 4 years with Diggs.

Knox
Kincaid
Samuels
Coleman
Shakir

None of them will be elite, but they'll all be usable weekly.

 

[eaglesnut]

Keon Coleman becomes a star

Did you think that before the draft?

 

[eaglesnut]

All 4 years with Diggs.

Knox
Kincaid
Samuels
Coleman
Shakir

None of them will be elite, but they'll all be usable weekly.

I did not realize how nothing knox was last year. Guess he was in and out of the lineup, but really didn't contribute in the redzone.

Cook will get a bunch of receptions. Could he lead the team? I don't see anyone going over 80.