as a cub fan i'm tired of the losing

[brian mclaren]

why where my cubs t-shirts or jerseys or even my hat.
living in detroit where all the tigers fans sport thier gear. i have my stuff hiding in my closet ashamed to wear it.
i know this team been in a rebuild mose since mr window dressing epstein was hired and i know rickets would rather spend his money on staduim improvements. but seriously baseball is a game and our team dont play the game very well.ashamed for the past 3 seasons

 

[anotheridiot]

you know Brian (long time no see) I think getting the kids up here will make this team exciting again. When its time to make a run, we will watch theo make more bad decisions with free agents like he did in boston and cost the team some good players just to pay more money to betteran free agents.

You see what Boston did with all of theos bad signings, all gone. He has never taken a 70 win team to the playoffs, he took a 95 win team to the world series all due to an Arizona fire sale. I see a couple fun seasons with some kids but then back to disappointment when they go after the big signing.

 

[pfchongs]

Lol wwwwwhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

 

[SirGladiator]

Clearly Theo has turned the team around already. If we had a bullpen we'd be well over .500, we've got one of the best farm systems in baseball and it's constantly getting stronger, there's nothing but improvement after improvement. Obviously he missed some chances to make progress faster, as we saw tonight Cespedes would've been nice to have, losing a bidding war with OAKLAND for him is quite the humiliation. We could've outbid Texas for Yu Darvish easily, and not every single player he's picked up has worked out. So he hasn't been perfect, but you can't be perfect in baseball. Most of the players he's added have been pretty awesome, and some have already returned really sweet hauls. In a day or so we might be adding Garza to that list of players who get us a huge return. This is a team that could go on a run and make the playoffs this year, but more likely there will be one more major sale this year, folks like Garza, Soriano, and Gregg getting traded for real nice returns, and we'll go into 2014 as the clear favorites to win the Division.

 

[HammerDown]

Betteran? Really?

 

[Jack_John_Mark]

You guys are cursed, remember?

 

[SirGladiator]

The kind of haul Garza is going to bring us, is going to just about complete the turnaround and likely will lead to us being the Division Favorites next year, after we make some off-season moves to shore up our bullpen and whatever else. They're asking for a ton for Garza, and a ton of teams are in. Starting out with a huge asking price, then having a bidding war drive that price up, it's going to be like Christmas morning when we see what we got for Garza!

 

[anotheridiot]

Betteran? Really?

Yes really. Build up the prospects, then they dont get to play here because a betteran, (better veteran) that can bring back more prospects to take our prospects place when they are dealt is put in their place. Its the cubs, first its a failed patterson, even though he turned it around before destroying his knee, then Pie, it seems that ever center field prospect is set up to fail. When they get their confidence, they come up here and get told we cant get away with that here, it doesnt matter if you excelled at every level thru the minors, you have to change your swing, walk more, take pitches, and before you know it, another failure.

 

[SirGladiator]

Yeah, the young players need consistency, and opportunity. Not to have their heads constantly messed with. Bring 'em up, let 'em play, let 'em show what they do or don't have, and then we can see whether they need more work, or if they're good to go right now. We've had too many GREAT players go down the tubes because our guys just didn't know how to handle them. We need a hitting coach as good as our pitching coach, that guy is awesome, the stuff he's done with Samarja, T Woody, etc. just amazing. We need a hitting coach as great as that guy!

 

[brian mclaren]

if our farm system is so good why are the cubs not winning at any level.
as a cubs fan i want team players team winners not indulvidule hopefuls

 

[Johnny Sleeper]

if our farm system is so good why are the cubs not winning at any level.
as a cubs fan i want team players team winners not indulvidule hopefuls

33% of the teams in the organization are winning their division, Daytona and Boise. Tennessee is in 2nd in their division. Only 50% of the teams in the organization are currently in first or second in their division and all are at AA or below which would be strength in the lower farm system. However, do not allow facts to get in the way of an ignorant rant.

 

[Devsfan4life95]

The kind of haul Garza is going to bring us, is going to just about complete the turnaround and likely will lead to us being the Division Favorites next year, after we make some off-season moves to shore up our bullpen and whatever else. They're asking for a ton for Garza, and a ton of teams are in. Starting out with a huge asking price, then having a bidding war drive that price up, it's going to be like Christmas morning when we see what we got for Garza!

I got a place for you to go. it's where I came from brewerscubs.com All they talk about is the hauls they get for betterans (nice one AI) and the few good players we had left/brought in (Soriano,Garza,Feldman) Yea they're all Theo apologists over there which would be a perfect place for you to posr, they'll love ya.

 

[anotheridiot]

yeah faith in the system to me means you build with them not trade for players that were taught the game in a better system. Most cub fans are fine with this rebuild, but when 2016 comes, they are gonna be saying we are a big market, we can afford the top 3 free agents or trade for someone you need to send 4-5 of your prospects to get.

Rizzo might be a great player, he might be brian LaHair. Theo picked him in boston, jed took him to sandiego, and we gave up a first round pitcher in Cashner to get him. Now Cashner might not become anything either, but it still the emphasis of wanting players from a different system just shows no faith in your system.

With Lake, Soler, Almora, Baez needing to find a spot, still have Ha, BJax, and most people saying Bryant is not a good enough third baseman to stick there, he will end up in right field too, what is the need to go out and get free agents? What does it hurt at this point to play Lake, BJax and Ha out there since there is probably a short future for them here anyway. Instead we get Neal, sweeney, bogusevic and McDonald?

Yeah, I want the rebuild to work, I dont think we need to line the field with free agents to win and I will wait for that. But when they start with we should get Cano, Price, etc, its time to really wonder why all the faith in theo then?

 

[Johnny Sleeper]

The Cubs are NOT a big market team. They are a mid-market team. Anyone who thinks they are a big market team ignored what happened while the Tribune Company owned the Cubs. The Tribune Company kept their profits in TV and newspaper and ignored the healthy, both financial and product on the field, of the Cubs. They signed contracts for the TV deals that were significantly lower then market value. This boosted the real value of WGN, however, if hurt the real value of the Cubs. When the companies became separate the Cubs lost a lot of value instantly as they no longer were a part of the cash flow that WGN was making off of them that the Tribune could have shifted over if they had wanted to. Zell came in and tried to a fast fix by slapping a band-aid on the big league team while again ignoring organizational health. Hence the Cubs had a $145M payroll in a season they went 75-87 then a $135M payroll team that finished 71-91, because the organization had serious problems and as older players declined there was no one to provide upside or even pick up the slack.

As the TV deals expire and the Cubs get big market deals they will slowly become a big market team. However, they currently are in the bottom half of the league in TV revenue. Their TV deals still have too many years on them to be counting on that money any time soon. The Cubs have less income then the rest of the teams in the division right now because of their lack of advertising space at the park and their network friendly TV deals where the Tribune used their ability to control the contract size with the Cubs as a way to also keep the White Sox TV contracts lower.

As for signing free agents. Why wouldn't you want to sign a guy like Cano? An elite player at a position the Cubs currently have a big hole in. Cano would be an instant upgrade at 2B and help the offense take a big step in the right direction. This could be the last year the Cubs will have a protected first round pick so signing a big FA this off-season makes much more sense then waiting until it will cost you a first round pick. Even if they have a protected pick next year the FA class looks fairly weak. Cano is the right age that you can give him a 6 year deal and not be too concerned about hitting a steep decline. He obviously won't be the same player in 6-7 years, but he should be a good everyday player, although closer to 2.5 fWAR then the 5 fWAR player he is today. I don't see them signing Cano as Alcantara is having a very solid year in AA and should spend next year in AAA then come up in 2015 as Barney is sent packing either by not offering him arbitration or trading him at next year's deadline. Signing Cano would mean they could move a guy like Alcantara

David Price is not realistic as the prospect cost would be insane it would cost guys that are going to be part of the core of the team. Unless the Rays were willing to take an offer with Vogelbach and Candelario as the centerpieces, which wouldn't happen, there is very little chance the Cubs would trade for him. Baez, Almora, Soler and Bryant are going to be a part of the Cubs' future and are not being traded and the Rays would not move Price without getting at least on of them and they would probably demand Baez. However, the Cubs wouldn't have the prospect value to trade for Price and still have at least 3 top 40 prospects if not for the work of the current front office and ownership. Most people do not seem to understand that everyone who made decisions on who to draft in 2011, i.e. Baez, Vogelbach, etc is still with the team, although most are in different roles. Ricketts had already decided that Hendry was gone and told him to let Tim Wilken and his staff run the draft. Wilken is one of the few guys from the old front office that is still with the Cubs.

The Cubs have strong prospects at every position on the field except catcher. They also have a shortage of pitchers. That is where they will spend money when they spend. I don't see them doing a lot this off-season except adding some more pitching and it will probably be short-term due to their FA options this year. They will probably sign one or two starting pitchers and two bullpen arms. Samardzija, Wood and Ejax are locked into the rotation for next year. Arieta will probably be in the rotation and that leaves on spot. Scott Baker will be making his season debut son and they could re-sign him as the 5th arm. They will also have Villanueva under contract for the swing man role. If they do not like what they see from Arieta they could go with two FAs. Maybe try to buy low on Lincecum or Tim Hundson. They could go after Garza, who will be the best FA pitcher on the market, but I expect him to get very overpaid because he will be the best arm out there. They could try to bring back Paul Maholm. They also have to decide if Vizcaino is going to try to land in the rotation or be a bullpen arm, which they will decide when they see him pitch in the AFL.

They could also go the trade route for a pitcher. Vogelbach will get moved at some point to fill a hole because there isn't a place for him to play with the Cubs, unless the NL adds the DH. The Cubs have an abundance of middle/left side infield prospects and could end up moving some of them for young pitching and/or pitching prospects. As for kids that get playing time next year I think Lake, Vitters and Olt (depending on his vision recovery) all have a chance to get significant playing time. Alcantara could get a call-up late in the season depending on how he does in AAA. Baez could get a call-up at some point depending on what he does in AAA, assuming he shows the front office that he deserves to move past AA this year. Bryant, Soler and Almora probably start the year in AA with a chance to finish it in AAA and while unlikely one of them could show enough for a late season call-up. The next two years should see a significant amount of prospects making the jump to the majors.

 

[anotheridiot]

all I am saying is most of the fans are spankin it to the prospects, but then want the cubs to spend money. I am fine letting baez and soler earn their money. Castro skipped AAA, why wouldnt Bryant, Soler and Almora skip AAA?

The reason I dont want Cano is because you have Alcantara, Baez, Castro, Olt and Bryant have three positions to fill. Move Castro to second, Baez to second, Alcantara is at second, you figure out third and whoever is left to the outfield. Why would you want to have to just have third and short to split these guys to?

I hope the next two years show jumps from the system and no more MCDonalds and Neals, Bogusevics, DeJesus' Shierholtz, Sweenies. Let lake start in a corner, give BJax center, he just has one year before he gets kicked out anyway, but instead Hoyer says there is little chance anyone will break spring training with the big club.

 

[Johnny Sleeper]

Brett Jackson is hitting .186 in AA and you want to hand him a major league job? I agree with the idea of waiting on Alcantara in 2015, maybe late next year. However, there is no guarantee that he will pan out and Cano is a sure thing and allows you to use Alcantara as a trade piece to fill a different hole, i.e. pitching. Olt's vision issues, which are a result from a blow to the head, might never clear up. It is fans that are throwing out names like Cano and Price while Theo/Hoyer are repeating that there will be no big FA acquisitions.

Theo and Hoyer are saying and acting like they are going to stay the course. Schierholtz was a great addition and hasn't blocked anyone and will be in his last arbitration year if he is brought back next year. DeJesus is a solid OF who can play all three OF positions allowing a ready prospect to play where they need to and he can slide around. When Hoyer says there is little chance of anyone breaking with the team I take that to mean new clocks that would be started. If BJax were ready he would be up. Vitters could break camp with the team if he shows some improvement, but injuries have hurt his progress this year. Olt probably doesn't break camp with the team, because I expect they will want him to prove his vision is right, assuming it looks right in the spring, in AAA first.

Who do you think is near ready that should have a shot at making the Opening Day starting line-up? If they are going to be used in a bench/utility role there is absolutely no reason to start their clock.

 

[anotheridiot]

Who do you think is near ready that should have a shot at making the Opening Day starting line-up? If they are going to be used in a bench/utility role there is absolutely no reason to start their clock.

Last year Vitters and BJax got their late season shot, but instead of saying they will work over the winter and see what happens in spring training, they were told at the end of last year they would not have a chance to make the major league roster. I took that as a brick wall to the young players. If Lake sticks at his .300 hitting, plus or minus .25 points, he deserves a spot next year, since thats .50 points over most of the outfielders this year, but odds are Theojeb is gonna end up signing some 30 something 4 million dollar guy they hope to trade in june and say Lake needs to work on becoming a full time outfielder.

I am not saying neither deserve to be a starter out of the box, but I would rather see BJax with the team, even though he strikes out alot, it seems like a strike out or a double. I would rather watch BJax hit .220 than Gillespe or McDonald or Borbon or Sappelt.

Starting the clock, I am mixed. I understand completely the waiting game, but when this regime shows that you get a player like Castro or Rizzo, and you are gonna lock them up thru arbitration years, I dont see the point of holding the kids back when there is a small chance they will reach arbitration.

 

[Devsfan4life95]

Like I tried to convey to the jackasses over there. Theo has never taken a 71-win team and made it a winner and we're all supposed to believe he's gonna do it in the hardest place possible to do such a task? AI is right, the fans are spankin the monkey to all these prospects we're getting thru the sign-for-3-months-then-trade-him guys like Hairston,Feldman and if they had their way Schierholtz was gone too. There has been a major bait-and-switch with this regime and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees that. Once again, there will be no FA singings next year that will HELP THE TEAM, just the flippers like we saw this year who won't be here long enough to even buy their jerseys before Theo gets that itch to trade,trade,trade again. THIS is what I'm sick of and why I was ran off the other board because 99% of them didn't wanna see the truth.

 

[Johnny Sleeper]

They are building the organization. That takes time. They started with a bottom 5 farm system that had been neglected for years and have turned it into a top 3 with 4 prospects in the top 40. There is more talent in the organization then there was has been at any point in your lifetime or mine. It is working it's way up to the organization. This is similar to how the Yankees and Braves built themselves in the late 80s and early 90s. They both bottomed out getting a few top 5 draft picks as they built their farm before dominating the mid-90s and 200s with their home grown talent and wise FA decisions. They kept their elite developed players, i.e. Chipper, Smoltz, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, etc.

The blueprint for what Theo and Hoyer are doing is out there and it has worked repeatedly. The Giants used this blueprint to win the World Series two out of the last three years. The Rangers used it to be in the World Series two of the last three years. Do you think the Cubs should be like the Angels and try to fill holes with declining players for big dollars in FA? Theo and Hoyer have done what they are doing in Chicago in terms of building a farm, developing big time players, i.e. Pedroria, Elsburry, etc. The front office has done everything needed to turn around a struggling team they just didn't have to bottom out the Red Sox because they had not ignored their farm so they had talented players to work with. The best thing the Cubs' organization produced between Wood/Prior and Castro was Ryan Theriot. Please try to contain yourself at how awesome that means the farm was.

 

[Johnny Sleeper]

Devs, are you against the way they are building the organization or just dislike Theo? If the problem is with the process they are using what alternative would you like to see?