ANYBODY WANT TO DEFEND BEVELL NOW????

[RaidaDave]

Lynch to Raiders after that.

Yep...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Was a tough game, New England deserved to win as they made the plays when they needed to. Once Avril went down I got a HUGE sinking feeling in my stomach because I knew Brady would have 'time' and that equals touchdowns.

I was a little more upset with Bevell on the 2 drives before the final one that we went 3 and out, giving New England good field position.

It all culminated to the one final play and that's all everyone will remember, but Seattle really beat themselves in the 4th quarter. New England started both those drives on the 32 and 36.... that's not going to help your D without Avril against Brady + the Gronk. If Seattle just turns one of those drives into a field goal, Seattle not only wins at the end with a field goal, but probably is never even put down 28 points (Brady having to work with less field and go further with less time).

 

[gohusk]

Was a tough game, New England deserved to win as they made the plays when they needed to. Once Avril went down I got a HUGE sinking feeling in my stomach because I knew Brady would have 'time' and that equals touchdowns.

I was a little more upset with Bevell on the 2 drives before the final one that we went 3 and out, giving New England good field position.

It all culminated to the one final play and that's all everyone will remember, but Seattle really beat themselves in the 4th quarter. New England started both those drives on the 32 and 36.... that's not going to help your D without Avril against Brady + the Gronk. If Seattle just turns one of those drives into a field goal, Seattle not only wins at the end with a field goal, but probably is never even put down 28 points (Brady having to work with less field and go further with less time).

That stuff happens in the game though. Pats have a great offense and they finally got something going. The I honestly don't mind not running on 2nd down. What I have a problem with is going with the highest risk pass play you could probably dial up in that situation when the balls on the one yard line. Horrible play call. Absolutely no defending it.

 

[WizardHawk]

Why do you keep defending this? Are you related to the guy or something? They threw it right into the teeth of a defense that was thinking draw first. Of course it ended in a disaster. As usual, the idiot got too cute and this time it cost the Seahawks the Super Bowl. The play call shows that he has absolutely no concept of what our identity on offense is. For whatever reason you have a lot emotionally invested in a guy who's average when he's at his best and this is his low end (you know, shitting the bed when the Super Bowl is on the line).

How am I defending this?

It's not my fault that most of you can't put aside your knee jerk reaction long enough to analyze the thing and blame all of the right people.

I haven't ONCE said it was a good play call. Not once.

Listened to KJR coming in this morning and I agree with both Mitch and Hugh. Mitch says there is no way anyone could ever convince him this was the right call, BUT he puts this 100% on Carroll. Yep. Spot on. Hugh says they should have ran a running play, but it's not so easy to say either the play call was bad or the analysis that lead to it was wrong.

Seattle ran 11 personnel out there and Pats went with a goal line 3 DB look. According to Hugh Seattle exactly what they wanted out of the coverage. Hightower cleared out with Lynch to the left, there was no safety or extra LB back. It was 2 on 2 just like the play is supposed to have if you go for it. Wilson has two options there: Throw it to the receiver if he is open or throw it away and setup for the two planned running plays. Wilson makes the wrong decision, but partially because both receivers made mistakes. Kearse was supposed to run a rub route and help clear out Lockette's cover. Well he didn't get that done. Lockette was supposed to run a fake and then turn to that spot. Well he was lazy and didn't use good technique to sell the fake and made it easy for the undrafted free agent rookie Branch to sell out on that play.

If Wilson throws that ball 6 inches to the right either Lockette catches it and Seattle is the winner, or Lockette fails to catch it and it falls to the ground and they go to those two running plays.

If Wilson throws the ball away the go on to those two running plays.

Carroll and Bevell put a lot of trust in Wilson to make the right reads and not make a bad play there.

Let me be clear about this again since a few of you are really not getting it: They should have given Lynch the ball. The blame however, should be spread around. Bevell did come up with the correct read according to their metrics, but Carroll should have said no. The buck stops with him and he said as much after the game.

If you casual fans want to keep bashing one guy as the sole reason you aren't champs then by all means carry on. Don't let facts get in the way of your tantrums.

 

[WizardHawk]

That stuff happens in the game though. Pats have a great offense and they finally got something going. The I honestly don't mind not running on 2nd down. What I have a problem with is going with the highest risk pass play you could probably dial up in that situation when the balls on the one yard line. Horrible play call. Absolutely no defending it.

Highest risk? Are you fucking high?

You had 2 on 2 with Kearse and Lockette vs Branch (An UDFA rookie for fucks sake) and whoever was on Kearse.

Seattle got EXACTLY what they wanted out of the defense on that play. But 3 players failed to do their jobs on that play. Kearse didn't get the rub, Lockette didn't sell the fake move, and Wilson didn't get the ball to the right spot and/or throw it away.

Yes, run the ball. No guarantee they make it in, but less risks sure. But if you want to blame the outcome learn a little bit about why they did what they did and who actually failed on the play and then make an informed reaction to it.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

How am I defending this?

It's not my fault that most of you can't put aside your knee jerk reaction long enough to analyze the thing and blame all of the right people.

I haven't ONCE said it was a good play call. Not once.

Listened to KJR coming in this morning and I agree with both Mitch and Hugh. Mitch says there is no way anyone could ever convince him this was the right call, BUT he puts this 100% on Carroll. Yep. Spot on. Hugh says they should have ran a running play, but it's not so easy to say either the play call was bad or the analysis that lead to it was wrong.

Seattle ran 11 personnel out there and Pats went with a goal line 3 DB look. According to Hugh Seattle exactly what they wanted out of the coverage. Hightower cleared out with Lynch to the left, there was no safety or extra LB back. It was 2 on 2 just like the play is supposed to have if you go for it. Wilson has two options there: Throw it to the receiver if he is open or throw it away and setup for the two planned running plays. Wilson makes the wrong decision, but partially because both receivers made mistakes. Kearse was supposed to run a rub route and help clear out Lockette's cover. Well he didn't get that done. Lockette was supposed to run a fake and then turn to that spot. Well he was lazy and didn't use good technique to sell the fake and made it easy for the undrafted free agent rookie Branch to sell out on that play.

If Wilson throws that ball 6 inches to the right either Lockette catches it and Seattle is the winner, or Lockette fails to catch it and it falls to the ground and they go to those two running plays.

If Wilson throws the ball away the go on to those two running plays.

Carroll and Bevell put a lot of trust in Wilson to make the right reads and not make a bad play there.

Let me be clear about this again since a few of you are really not getting it: They should have given Lynch the ball. The blame however, should be spread around. Bevell did come up with the correct read according to their metrics, but Carroll should have said no. The buck stops with him and he said as much after the game.

If you casual fans want to keep bashing one guy as the sole reason you aren't champs then by all means carry on. Don't let facts get in the way of your tantrums.

Knee jerk reaction ? You gotta be effin kidding me .... You will never justify not using Lynch to get less than a yard in the biggest moment ever!!!! I know Bevell sucks and you can look back at my criticism... But even I couldn't have imagined he'd be that stupid in such a massive situation .... Ask any football player .... They would laugh at you for trying to justify this.... Nothing up until that point mattered... All that mattered is getting a little less than 1 yard for another title ... And we went away from our strength because Bevell wanted to get cute and run a slant route from that close to the goal line ... Our OC cost us another title ... Lynch scores there and I have no doubt about it ....he woulda went nuts to cross that line ... It's un fucking believable ... Pats should send Bevell thank you cards ....

 

[WizardHawk]

Knee jerk reaction ? You gotta be effin kidding me .... You will never justify not using Lynch to get less than a yard in the biggest moment ever!!!!

Didn't read past this point because obviously you aren't reading what I said.

Why can't any of you understand that I haven't said once that it was the right call? I haven't ever said they shouldn't have used Lynch. LEARN TO READ PEOPLE.

I'm hoping after you all calm down your sense of reason comes back, because right now a lot of you are just looking like crying poor losers. And it just makes me literally shake my head in disgust.

 

[gohusk]

Highest risk? Are you fucking high?

You had 2 on 2 with Kearse and Lockette vs Branch (And UDFA rookie for fucks sake) and whoever was on Kearse.

Seattle got EXACTLY what they wanted out of the defense on that play. But 3 players failed to do their jobs on that play. Kearse didn't get the rub, Lockette didn't sell the fake move, and Wilson didn't get the ball to the right spot and/or throw it away.

Yes, run the ball. No guarantee they make it in, but less risks sure. But if you want to blame the outcome learn a little bit about why they did what they did and who actually failed on the play and then make an informed reaction to it.

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Throwing a quick slant when dude's in the secondary are on their toes looking for the draw is high risk because they're looking to move forward for run support. It's high risk because there's one place the ball can be. It's high risk because an off throw and a tipped ball will usually spell interception.

You obviously have a lot emotionally invested in this guy for god knows what reason. He sucks. Everybody is saying he sucks because he does suck. 2 point conversion with nothing to lose? Sure. 2nd and goal from the 1 with a timeout? Idiotic. You're the only guy left that thinks this guy has the upper hand over a brick with a headset on. Enjoy yourself.

 

[BHF]

Damn right that was a high risk throw. You are throwing into the teeth of a goal line defense, with a route that we have struggled with all season.

If you want to say that running into the middle of that defense was a bad idea, I'm not going to bust your balls too hard. I might disagree, but it's a defensible position. But we aren't allowed to get pissed off because we throw into the very heart of the scrum we were trying to avoid by not running the ball?

And, not for nothing, we are all on the same side here. We are all fans of the same club. We've all been through the same up and downs with this team. But you are choosing to come out and attack posters and generally act like a dick immediately after the most heart breaking loss in years? WTF?

 

[WizardHawk]

You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Throwing a quick slant when dude's in the secondary are on their toes looking for the draw is high risk because they're looking to move forward for run support. It's high risk because there's one place the ball can be. It's high risk because an off throw and a tipped ball will usually spell interception.

You obviously have a lot emotionally invested in this guy for god knows what reason. He sucks. Everybody is saying he sucks because he does suck. 2 point conversion with nothing to lose? Sure. 2nd and goal from the 1 with a timeout? Idiotic. You're the only guy left that thinks this guy has the upper hand over a brick with a headset on. Enjoy yourself.

lol. Talk about emotionally invested. This lynch mob garbage has clouded all of your views.

I'd rather stick to the facts and stay grounded in reality.

It was 2 on 2 with no safety or LB support. Just two WR's with 2 DB's which is exactly what that play was designed for.

LEARN THE GAME BEFORE YOU TRY TO BRING IT AT OTHERS. Because I'm not going let you get away with it.

And for the 1 millionth time, I haven't ever said it was the best call. Instead of sending out 11 personnel with the intent to run, they should have gone 22 at least and just gone for it.

The blame for not doing so IS ON CARROLL. He's the HC with ultimate responsibility. Pete Carroll has all of the decisions at that point of every game. Bevell can suggest anything he wants, but buck goes through Pete's desk before it hits the airwaves.

Some undrafted free agent rookie who's name I keep messing up because he's that low on the totem pole beat them. (Butler?) Whatever it was. So tell us all about the high risks against that all world DB.

 

[gohusk]

lol. Talk about emotionally invested. This lynch mob garbage has clouded all of your views.

I'd rather stick to the facts and stay grounded in reality.

It was 2 on 2 with no safety or LB support. Just two WR's with 2 DB's which is exactly what that play was designed for.

LEARN THE GAME BEFORE YOU TRY TO BRING IT AT OTHERS. Because I'm not going let you get away with it.

And for the 1 millionth time, I haven't ever said it was the best call. Instead of sending out 11 personnel with the intent to run, they should have gone 22 at least and just gone for it.

The blame for not doing so IS ON CARROLL. He's the HC with ultimate responsibility. Pete Carroll has all of the decisions at that point of every game. Bevell can suggest anything he wants, but buck goes through Pete's desk before it hits the airwaves.

Some undrafted free agent rookie who's name I keep messing up because he's that low on the totem pole beat them. (Butler?) Whatever it was. So tell us all about the high risks against that all world DB.

Dude, just because you say crap doesn't make it through. They ran a slant into a defense looking for a run in the middle where there's going to be a ton of traffic from the 1 yard line even though they have the most mobile QB in the game who has scored many TD's with his feet. Are you related to this guy or something?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Didn't read past this point because obviously you aren't reading what I said.

Why can't any of you understand that I haven't said once that it was the right call? I haven't ever said they shouldn't have used Lynch. LEARN TO READ PEOPLE.

I'm hoping after you all calm down your sense of reason comes back, because right now a lot of you are just looking like crying poor losers. And it just makes me literally shake my head in disgust.

Dude crying poor losers? It was the fucking Super Bowl and we needed a little less than 1 yard to win it, and we went away from our biggest strength .... Should we all be happy about it ?

 

[WizardHawk]

Damn right that was a high risk throw. You are throwing into the teeth of a goal line defense, with a route that we have struggled with all season.

Seriously, the next person who says that is going to find their avatar changed to a dunce cap.

Throwing to the right when the entire defense was going to the left and you had 2 on 2 with an UDFA rookie covering the intended target is nothing close to 'throwing into the teeth of the defense'. It's simply not even close to true.


Look, everyone is upset and I get that. Kind of. I mean those of us footed in reality were prepared for the possibility of a team loss going into this game anyway. Blame Carroll or Wilson or Lockette or whoever you want for the last play, but at least don't sound like a know nothing parrot of the other disgruntled casual fans that don't know shit about that which they are endlessly whining about.

Seattle had many chance to earn the title of SB champions and failed to do so. The D let Brady score 2 TD's in the 4th quarter. That's part of this loss whether any of you want to admit it or not. Losing Lane to a broken arm (that picture of his snapped arm was hard to look at) and Avril early in the 4th were huge blows to that squad. How about just sucking on 3rd downs on defense the entire game? I could go on, but to say it's all about that one play is just dumb.

 

[WizardHawk]

Dude crying poor losers? It was the fucking Super Bowl and we needed a little less than 1 yard to win it, and we went away from our biggest strength .... Should we all be happy about it ?

No, and now that you aren't tossing rhetoric around I'd be happy to discuss that.

Hindsight being what it is, it's obvious they would have been better off putting a goal line run package in and just let your run orientated offense do their thing. There's no guarantee they score with it, but hang your season on the Beast and see what happens.

All I've said since the first post I made last night is put the blame where it belongs. On EVERYONE involved in making that loss. That's it.

Well, and maybe give some credit to the other guys for playing a hell of a game and coming up with the big play from an unlikely source to win what was an incredible super bowl.

Ok, and keep the entire thing in perspective maybe. Best team in the NFL over the last 3 years with a whole lot more upside than things to complain about. A team that overcame injury and adversity and made it all the way to within 1 play of becoming back to back champs. No other team has come close to that in more than 10 years.

 

[gohusk]

Seriously, the next person who says that is going to find their avatar changed to a dunce cap.

Throwing to the right when the entire defense was going to the left and you had 2 on 2 with an UDFA rookie covering the intended target is nothing close to 'throwing into the teeth of the defense'. It's simply not even close to true.


Look, everyone is upset and I get that. Kind of. I mean those of us footed in reality were prepared for the possibility of a team loss going into this game anyway. Blame Carroll or Wilson or Lockette or whoever you want for the last play, but at least don't sound like a know nothing parrot of the other disgruntled casual fans that don't know shit about that which they are endlessly whining about.

Seattle had many chance to earn the title of SB champions and failed to do so. The D let Brady score 2 TD's in the 4th quarter. That's part of this loss whether any of you want to admit it or not. Losing Lane to a broken arm (that picture of his snapped arm was hard to look at) and Avril early in the 4th were huge blows to that squad. How about just sucking on 3rd downs on defense the entire game? I could go on, but to say it's all about that one play is just dumb.

You're right. Calling that out rout to the right was the good call. My bad, that isn't what they called. They thew the ball on a slant over the middle with defenders playing on their toes to fill gaps if needed. You can keep saying whatever you want to about this call but the truth is that it was awful. We tried this play before in the past and it has never worked. He dialed it up in one of the biggest moments in Seahawks history. Screw Wilson's strengths, screw Lynch's strengths, screw what has happened before with the exact same play. Let's run it!

Are you Bevell's son or something? The reason he's getting heat is because he deserves it and the reason people are saying it was an awful call is because it was an awful call. Talk about dunce caps all you want but at the end of the day you're the one who's full of it.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Seriously, the next person who says that is going to find their avatar changed to a dunce cap.

Throwing to the right when the entire defense was going to the left and you had 2 on 2 with an UDFA rookie covering the intended target is nothing close to 'throwing into the teeth of the defense'. It's simply not even close to true.


Look, everyone is upset and I get that. Kind of. I mean those of us footed in reality were prepared for the possibility of a team loss going into this game anyway. Blame Carroll or Wilson or Lockette or whoever you want for the last play, but at least don't sound like a know nothing parrot of the other disgruntled casual fans that don't know shit about that which they are endlessly whining about.

Seattle had many chance to earn the title of SB champions and failed to do so. The D let Brady score 2 TD's in the 4th quarter. That's part of this loss whether any of you want to admit it or not. Losing Lane to a broken arm (that picture of his snapped arm was hard to look at) and Avril early in the 4th were huge blows to that squad. How about just sucking on 3rd downs on defense the entire game? I could go on, but to say it's all about that one play is just dumb.

Dude your seriously missing the point ... Noting up until that point mattered .... That's how sports work... It's the next play, the next moment .... We had that moment, and we didn't play to our strength... Why is that so hard to grasp for you ... There is not one coach in the NFL that's doesn't use Lynch there ... It wasn't 4th down it was 2nd down ... Run the fucking ball

 

[BHF]

Seriously, the next person who says that is going to find their avatar changed to a dunce cap.

Throwing to the right when the entire defense was going to the left and you had 2 on 2 with an UDFA rookie covering the intended target is nothing close to 'throwing into the teeth of the defense'. It's simply not even close to true.


Look, everyone is upset and I get that. Kind of. I mean those of us footed in reality were prepared for the possibility of a team loss going into this game anyway. Blame Carroll or Wilson or Lockette or whoever you want for the last play, but at least don't sound like a know nothing parrot of the other disgruntled casual fans that don't know shit about that which they are endlessly whining about.

Seattle had many chance to earn the title of SB champions and failed to do so. The D let Brady score 2 TD's in the 4th quarter. That's part of this loss whether any of you want to admit it or not. Losing Lane to a broken arm (that picture of his snapped arm was hard to look at) and Avril early in the 4th were huge blows to that squad. How about just sucking on 3rd downs on defense the entire game? I could go on, but to say it's all about that one play is just dumb.

Like I said, kind of a dick.

Bevel asked his QB to throw a pass across the middle against a goal line defense. That's just stupid, unless you are going to argue that Bevel KNEW that the Pats ALWAYS crash down left out of a vanilla stacked defense. And even if he did know that Wilson still needs to throw a ball over a stacked defense to a WR (who was his only option) running into the middle of the field. That's low percentage on a good day, and you should know that.

 

[WizardHawk]

There is not one coach in the NFL that's doesn't use Lynch there ... It wasn't 4th down it was 2nd down ... Run the fucking ball

And tell me where I've said they shouldn't have just ran it. Go ahead. I'll wait right here.

I'm not sure how a few of you are just this daft this morning. I've said they should have ran it. Not out of 11, but still should have ran it. The mistake was made before they adjusted to a pass play IMO. And I blame Carroll. That's where the blame lies.

All I've said is if you want to put blame on the outcome of that play then at least do so from a point of knowledge and give the blame to all who deserve it. That's in no way, shape, or form defending the call of that play. Not in any universe. And yet that's all any of you can come up with.

 

[willtalk]

Wizard Hawk: For what it's worth, I understand your point. Those other guys are just too emotional right now. They are reading into your post things that you never stated.

 

[WizardHawk]

Bevel asked his QB to throw a pass across the middle against a goal line defense.

Nope. Look at the replay. How is that the 'middle of the defense'? It's not. It was on the right side with nothing but 2 WR on 2 DB's. When you people keep saying that stuff it just tells me you don't have a clue about what you are trying to talk about.

Seriously, go look at that play again and pay close attention to that side. Kearse was supposed to rub the other defender and failed miserably. Lockette ran a lazy route and didn't sell the fake move. And Wilson should have thrown it a bit lower and to the right. No chance of the INT if that ball is placed out there. Not a guaranteed catch, but no INT.